You Got To Give Credit To Obama For Sending Bill Clinton......

It was an ingenious move on Obama's part. Use all the of the resources at your disposal - and that's exactly what he did. He realized the strength in having Bill Clinton represent the U.S. This was big of Hillary as well - she also realized and most likely conferred with Obama that Bill Clinton was the most qualified to obtain these journalists freedom. Good Call!!!!!!

hero's welcome back home. :)

KJI is a sexist dipshit. He'd HATE Hillary. Why? Because she's little, but she's BIGGER than him. Hell, Madeleine Albright is bigger than him.

KJI wanted a high profile photo op. He got that.

I'm sure China had an unseen foot up his ass, too.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE56J2GT20090720

"U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said North Korea should not receive the attention it is seeking through behaviour like missile launches and likened Pyongyang's behaviour to that of unruly children."


But it is also theoretically possible that things are as your evidence-free speculations describe.

It's been used over the years, to good effect, by many other administrations, and there's a long history of both our country and other nations using this sort of approach, so I'd hardly call my assessment "evidence free speculations."

You can say that if it makes you feel special, though...I don't mind--I will say I think you're dead wrong and a bit obtuse as to the big picture, though.

Since this gambit worked, I'd say this was played out nicely.

responding to this comment:


MADem (1000+ posts) Tue Aug-04-09 12:34 PM
Original message
And it was probably his SECSTATE's idea. Good for Obama for hiring smart help.
KJI is a sexist dipshit. He'd HATE Hillary. Why? Because she's little, but she's BIGGER than him. Hell, Madeleine Albright is bigger than him.

KJI wanted a high profile photo op. He got that.

I'm sure China had an unseen foot up his ass, too.

Odd that, though. Must be a glitch, eh?

:hi:

being good cop/bad copped by a husband/wife team.

He did approve the effort, though. That's all that matters.

The idea originated in North Korea. The message was passed from the capitives to their families to Al Gore.

Al Gore called Bill Clinton, and he agreed to help. He made the arrangements with his wife, the SECSTATE, who got the upcheck from the President.

Kim Jong-IL was thrilled to receive Madeleine Albright in the late 90's because it gave him legitimacy. Now that he's chosen to kidnap our citizens and withdraw from the NPT we don't send high ranking administration officials to North Korea anymore, at least not until he stops this sort of behavior.

It seems likely this deal had already been worked out, but now Bill gets a good deal of credit for it. Maybe Obama was throwing him a bone to smooth relations between them.

Well done.

Clinton wouldn't have shown up in the first place without knowing they'd be released. He was high-level window dressing. Now, granted, a visit by a big-time American VIP might have been one of the conditions of the release, but I'm sure all the leg work for this was done ahead of time.

Still, sending Clinton was a smart idea. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Hillary's.

Obama is about optimizing success.

Gotta throw some love to Al for looking out for his employees :)

wanted those reporters to have a safe journey home, now!

how come no one is providing any links? this is the second thread that alludes to Bill Clinton but makes absolutely no sense to those of us who haven't heard anything about what happened.

these threads are pretty worthless without links/factual info, it's nothing but static. sorry, but it's a little frustrating.

:throws a tantrum: <---- jk :P

the slapdown on the POTUS by asking for BC...........LOL...........

.... obviously, the WH had to ok it. And Pres. Clinton is travelling with Obama transition head John Podesta. Smart move by all involved I think.

North Korean officials told relatives that they would release the women to Clinton, and the family then approached the former president. The White House approved the mission. Secret preparations went on for week. It may be a long day for Robert Gibbs, because the White House doesn’t plan to issue a statement until the women are on free soil.

(bottom of page)
http://www.politico.com/playbook/

Kudos to Presidents Obama and Clinton!!

who is on CNN now.
Bill C. just reminded me why I loved him in the early 90's.

GMTA

To me he'll always be a backstabbing weasel. But, what goes around comes around.........

:eyes:

He knows Obama knows it, too. That's why he was offered El Shitty-O Cabinet-o Position-o. And that's why he 'weaseled' out of it, using a limp ethics probe excuse. He knew he'd die a thousand deaths in that job, watching Hillary and Joe do the work he wanted.

Joe Biden becomes VP--the job he wanted and almost EXPECTED for his loyalty. Joe Biden, FWIW, was the one who turned the Clintons on to the Vineyard as a vacation spot (and he probably talked the Obamas into trying it out, too). The Bidens and the Clintons used to vacation together often during the Clinton years and later--a fact that didn't hit the news. They're very old and good friends.

Hillary Clinton became SECSTATE--the other job he wanted. See, people who fuck over their friends, well, they're just not to be trusted. They don't get those key positions!

And, icing on the cake--up comes a key opportunity for the ultimate in Risk/Opportunity Diplomacy--and the guy he LIED to goes over to North Korea and brings home the goods. He's gotta be doing the Homer Simpson "DOH!!!!!"

Yep. Backstabbing weasel. Shame, too. He has a good mind. He just has no fucking loyalty, and even worse than that, he's a LIAR. I can't look at him with any real respect. Who can ya do, if ya can't "do" your friends? The baaastid.

Good choice, I love the Cape and used to go there every summer for years. My favorite spot is Nantucket.

As for Richardson, I have zero respect for anyone who betrays a friend for self serving purposes. I'm fiercely loyal and have no use for weasels like him. If you are my friend, I will stand by you until the bitter end. Serves him right that he ended up with nothing. Carville was right.......

x(

Now it's out of my price range to take the damn ferry for the day! The big advantage to MV, of course, is that it is hard to get to, and everyone going or coming can be tracked. Also, the properties they rented are quite massive, private and easy to secure.

Yep, Bill thought he was too clever by half, and JC did hit it right on the head.

It used to be about $27 for Nantucket and less than $20 for MV. I love the ferry ride to Nantucket. I remember years ago learning what pea soup fog meant. It got so foggy going there that we couldn't see our hands in front of our face. The ferry kept blaring it's fog horn every 30 sec. or so. By the time we got to Nantucket the fog had cleared and we could see a parade of boats of all sizes on either side of the ferry. They all knew that following the ferry was the best way to get to port safely. Those ferries are so huge that one day we saw a small circus come out of it. Truck after truck with equipment and animals. LOL!!!

Good memories. I may have to drive the 5 hours one weekend just for old times sakes.

:D

I remember slow stinky boats with round trips well under ten bucks, though!

Here are the hi-line fees--sixty five bucks round trip on the high speed to Nantucket (thirty five on the slow boat), fifteen bucks on the car ferry to the Vineyard (without a car--the car will cost you a hundred and some bucks more RT!!!).

http://www.steamshipauthority.com/ssa/index.cfm

There are other services/points of embarkation as well. For example, you can also take a ferry from Quonset Point, RI--longer haul so it's a bit pricier: http://www.vineyardfastferry.com/nantucket_ferry.htm

I passed it along to my of my coworkers who see me looking at it and now wants to go to MV. LOL!!!

I always took the Steamship ferry, the Hi-Line is too pricey and I actually enjoy the long ride to Nantucket.

Take care!!

:hi:

He used to be my governor.

Pray tell, got any dirt on him?

:D

was the biggest name who was not in these two categories (and obviously the biggest name except Obama), and therefore could be there without engaging the US government. Of course, that North Korea was flattered to receive him did not hurt either.


http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/04/clinton.analysis/

an open dialog with North Korea we had camaras in their nuclear facilities. As soon as * came in and included them in the Axis of evil..the camaras came down and they went on their way.

relations with North Korea she could not officially be involved.

I'm sure Secretary Clinton's primary concern was the journalists' safe return, not who was going to get "credit" for making that happen.

One thing about the Clintons' they get the job done!

No one in the administration could go, but a person of stature was demanded by the N. Koreans. They needed to save face and Bill was the chosen one.

"In Washington, the merits of sending Bill Clinton or Kerry -- the only two envoys officially invited by the North Koreans -- were being debated. In the end, the sources familiar with the discussions say, the former president's combination of stature and "unofficial" status made him the best choice to undertake a mission that the United States and North Korea agreed should be cloaked in a label of purely "private and humanitarian."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/04/clinton.analysis/

allowed this release to happen.

From the article,
"Sen. John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was also closely involved in coordinating efforts with the White House and State Department to free the women. According to sources intimately involved with the efforts, Kerry received an official invitation to visit Pyongyang to facilitate their release and open a larger dialogue on the nuclear issue after several weeks of quiet direct diplomacy between Kerry and his aides and North Korea."

In addition, it took Hillary Clinton changing her (the administration's) words on the guilt of the women.

"After months of calling the charges against the women "baseless," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in early July expressed the journalists' families' "remorse" for the incident and said the United States was seeking "amnesty" for them, suggesting the Obama administration was admitting their guilt in a bid to secure their freedom."

It also seems like State became involved in discussions after July 27 - though this is vague.

It seems then what North Korea insisted on was the presence of either Bill Clinton or John Kerry - and the Obama administration asked Clinton, who went and the women were released.

What this shows is excellent team work between the Obama administration, the leading foreign policy person in the Senate and the willingness of Bill Clinton to lend his presence to make this happen.

My response was to the poster who tried to imply that this was somehow a failure of Hillary, when it was the State Dept. and others like Sen. Kerry who worked behind the scenes to have this situation come to fruition. These kinds of negotiations are always delicate and take time.

and it does seem the US tacitly accepting some guilt on the part of the women was likely part of the deal. The women DID illegally cross the border - not a crime deserving 12 years, but not legal.

That and the presence of a very high profile American was the price NK agreed to. Neither costing the US anything real - and potentially opening the door to important negogiations.

It is interesting that Obama has now allowed Kerry to act as an informal diplomat 5 times for him as well as representing the SFRC. Two were before Obama was President, where Kerry was unofficially representing him at Poznan and then in Mumbai. Two others were restoring aid and getting agreement to tripartite talks in Sudan and in breaking the logjam in re-establishing diplomatic relations with Syria. The last was his and Teresa's trip to Gaza, which was also enormously important.

Kim would not have pardoned the women without some sort of apology from the US. That's why Hillary in July stated that the women were apologetic and realized they had been in the wrong. That took care of the saving face part. Kim's second request was for attention and that was satisfied with Bill's trip there. Apparently he had been trying to convince Bill to go to N. Korea for over a decade, he finally got his wish.

As for Kerry, he's very good at foreign policy. I'm sure that he will continue to be be of much help to the administration.

Geez..........some people just can't give up the hate...........

But to do so would've been to reward bad behavior and thus they were not going to do that. Kim Jong-Il I'm sure would've met with the Secretary of State or the Vice President but the administration was not going to send them.

The administration was never going to send the SOS, whether it was Hillary or anyone else. Bill was ideal since, according to what I just heard on CNN, Kim had been wanting Bill to visit N. Korea for over a decade. Well, he finally got his wish. IMO, a small price to pay for the release of these women.

He got Albright which was close but the clock expired and Bush took over and there was no way in hell Bush was going to visit North Korea.

Well, he got a little of that today with Bill's visit.

:eyes:

He definitely didn't seem to be enjoying himself.

:(

so handsome and healthy, it was nice to see him.

I'm so happy for those women, they were very lucky to get out of there.

KJI, was smiling like the cheshire cat...........LOL........like he landing a big prize!

I hope the POTUS uses this as a beginning for future productive talks. By the looks of KJI, he doesn't have long to go..............

With all due respect to Hillary of course.......

:eyes:



}(

husband, Hillary's taking good care of him. Keeping him away from MickeyD's and all that fried food he loves.

I hope we have him around for many years to come. I'm so glad he agreed to go to NK. He always seems to be available to help when needed.

Best to you...........

Actually, our modern presidents tend to live long: Reagan, Carter, Ford, Bush Sr.

I just had a thought, I guess that we'll have Chimp to kick around for years to come.

:D

Chimp will live long due to his alcoholism. The stubborn ones are the worst, they can't except they have a problem. I think Bush's stubbornness bordered on psychotic, if you no what I mean.

President's/congress should have to pass a psychological exam as well as a physical to be in office. So glad he is gone..........

I've got to go watch Big Brother, my guilty pleasure to see if Ronnie, psycho boy, gets the boot!!

Nighty night.........

I thought he stopped years ago when Laura threatened to leave him. Oh, well.....

Good night!!

:pals:

Now obviously they would have met with President Obama - so that list was likely not complete.

I am less sure they would have taken the Secretary of State as they were genuinely angry at her.

Possibly the National Security Advisor as well, although Jim Jones doesn't have as much stature as a lot of National Security Advisors do. As far as them being mad at her, I think her going to North Korea would've been seen by them as an apology for her comments.

think got BC to do it? Seriously, use your critical thinking skills.............

even better. The world would not be in this mess right now if it had not been for the theft of the 2000 election. I will always despise the Felonious Five and GWB for their despicable lives. The overuse of despicable is purposeful.

:headbang:

As has been said, an incredibly strong team effort.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/04/north-korea-welcomes-bill_n_250682.html

"While the White House emphasized the private nature of Clinton's trip, his landmark visit to Pyongyang to free the Americans was a coup that came at a time of heightened tensions over North Korea's nuclear program.

The meeting also appeared aimed at dispelling persistent questions about the health of the authoritarian North Korean leader, who was said to be suffering from chronic diabetes and heart disease before the reported stroke.

Kim smiled broadly for a photo standing next to a towering Clinton. He was markedly thinner than a year ago, with his graying hair cropped short. The once-pudgy 67-year-old, who for decades had a noticeable pot belly, wore a khaki jumpsuit and appeared frail and diminutive in a group shot seated next to a robust Clinton.

North Korea accused Ling, 32, and Lee, 36, both of former Vice President Al Gore's Current TV media venture, of sneaking into the country illegally.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton urged North Korea last month to grant them amnesty, saying they were remorseful and their families were anguished by their detention.

The journalists' release followed weeks of quiet negotiations between the State Department and the North Korean mission to the United Nations, said Daniel Sneider, associate director of research at Stanford University's Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center.

Clinton "didn't go to negotiate this, he went to reap the fruits of the negotiation," Sneider said."

It's great to see that these women are finally going home after 4 months in captivity.

:)

Now on two the 3 dopes who were warned not to go hiking near the border of Iran, but went nonetheless. It's never ending.........

:eyes:

(crosses fingers)

I feel like smacking the 3 upside down the head and yelling at them "snap out of it". They are causing Obama, Hillary and the State Dept. a whole new headache that they don't need. There are enough problems with Iran without these 3 dummies adding to them. When will people learn not to put their safety at risk for no valid reason other than their own stupidity.

x(

Has very few issues at all, actually. One of the last grown-ups standing in American public life.

most disarming and daunting (for the r-wing) qualities. I'm not sure that he was the one who conceived of the idea (i've heard it was initially suggested by the N.Koreans themselves) but he didn't have a problem having Bill take such a high profile position- Pres. O demonstrates his mastery of the art of diplomacy over and over again- I admire his quiet, self assured, gracefulness.

:hi:

and of President Clinton and the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. WHAT A TEAM! :applause:



It feels so SO AMAZING to have ADULTS in charge at the WhiteHouse again.

After all, they'd negotiated successfully re: nukes!

I believe the choice of who would negotiate for the release of the two women was based on a suggestion from Kim Jong Il.

This in no way diminishes what Pres. Clinton did. He undertook this mission with intelligence, skill and a selflessness that showed devotion to the goal of getting these women home to their families.

However, I don't think that the current President "selected" President for this mission. That would be inaccurate.