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Let Me Be CLEAR On Why The Public Option Is Non-Negiotable!

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:17 AM
Original message
Let Me Be CLEAR On Why The Public Option Is Non-Negiotable!

Let Me Be CLEAR On Why The Public Option Is Non-Negiotable!

by slinkerwink

I've been reading reports of people here on Dailykos who say, "Well, maybe a regional co-op would be okay. Maybe we might have the votes for a national co-operative." They are dead wrong on already giving up before the fight is over! Hell, this is the middle of August, and members of Congress haven't even returned back from recess yet!

Jane Hamsher, nyceve, and I over at FDL have been working out the details of what to do next with our allies in this fight at Netroots Nation. We're going to make sure that the Congressional Progressive Caucus STAND UP for the public option by refusing to vote for a bill that does not include it, and we're going to need you guys to keep fighting with us!

And yes, the White House administration is telegraphing that without a vigorous pushback from us, that they'd accept regional co-operatives in order to have a bipartisan vote on health insurance reform. I am using that phrase because without the public option, it's not real health care reform, just insurance reform.

The only way that the White House can shift its strategy is with a huge outcry from us, and our going to townhalls this week to DEMAND that our Democratic lawmakers answer how the costs of private insurance can be lowered without essential cost containments such as Medicare drug price negotiation and the public option.

<...>

Because without these two elements as checks on private insurance companies, monthly premiums are going to rise unabated, and there wouldn't be real competition among these insurance companies in the national insurance exchange. You know that might happen in the national insurance exchange without the public option? Right now, we have about six major insurance companies that dominate much of the country's health insurance market in most states. What's going to happen to these six major insurance companies in the national insurance exchange?

Will they really compete with each other? Or instead, buy each small insurance company up to the point that there are now six major insurance companies offering hundreds of different insurance plans within the national insurance exchange?

That's not real competition. That won't bring down prices of your monthly premiums. What it is is nothing more than a mandated bailout of the murder-by-spreadsheet industry with 45 million new captive customers. When Americans don't see the cost of their monthly premiums being lowered, you know who they'll blame for not making health care reform affordable for them? The Democratic Party.

more

No public option is not an option.




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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. How would the public option control costs?
What advantage does it have over other non-profit insurance companies?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Cuz the Public Option couldn't possibly become corrupt, bloated, or at all mismanaged.
You know, NO WAY could a non-profit compete with the purity of the Public Option.

:sarcasm:
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Non profit is a canard.
Look at how much many non-profits pay their senior staff and executives. Government (even at the SES level) doesn't pay anywhere near that much. And contracts with the government are competitive (at least, until Bush got in there). Not so with non-profits.

The other thing is the all the language I've heard about "co-ops" is that they are "regional" (and the definition of region might be really small). Small co-ops with 100,000 members will NOT be able to head to head with big Pharma and the big HMOs to get the highest level of quantity discount. Higher costs make them not competitive with big insurance companies. Which is why the big insurance companies don't care about co-ops.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes, as the president explains, if it's not a national group, they'll have no clout to
negotiate prices.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well. it's our own fault
I went to my congresswoman's "town hall" and stated my preference.

But I didn't see a lot of fired up progressives there with me (maybe a dozen). There were dozens and dozens of the birther/deather crowd there. All shouting at her.

And even more to the point, if we want the "blue dogs" to vote our way, we have to give them money, just like we all dug deep and gave money to President Obama. I, personally, don't have any money right now, having been unemployed for nearly a year. But if I was, and there was a widely known fund to channel money to the blue dogs IF they turn down money from the Insurance Lobby, I'd chuck $40 or $100 their way.

We elected a President. And gave him a majority in both the Senate and the House. But the majority we gave him wasn't (apparently) large enough. And they all worry about the midterm backlash against "big govmint" but the unwashed and uneducated masses. We need to do more. We need 65 Senate seats and another 20 house seats. And even more than that, we need to make sure that the blue dogs stay with us. If what they understand is money, then we need to send them millions, so long as they vote the way we want.

The media is against us, corporate America is against us, people who are afraid are against us. And it's easy to make people afraid, we have only to look back over the last 9 years to know that.

Where are OUR demonstrators. We used to awe the media when Obama was on the campaign trail. They HAD to cover it, there were MILLIONS of supporters. Where are they now?

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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. You mean like the millions and millions of antiwar protesters that the media carefully covered?
Media will cover what they're paid to cover by big biz. The common good of American citizens doesn't factor into their programming.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yeah, they didn't cover the anti war crowds.
Edited on Sun Aug-16-09 10:37 AM by lapfog_1
Because the fix was in.

They DID cover the big Obama rallies in the campaign. Because that wasn't "anti-establishment".

I don't know if they would cover a million person rally for health care reform. But we won't know if we don't go.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Right, but betting against media coverage is probably a good bet.
Edited on Sun Aug-16-09 10:41 AM by valerief
It'll still be more of the insurance-hired angry men and their stupid, crazy sheeple.

That said, I'd love to participate in a large march for a single payer or public-option-included health reform bill.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. At least the congress people that now only see
the angry birther tea party mobs would see a committed group on the other side.

Right now, the way they see it, there really isn't a down side to voting DOWN the President's plan. They figure they got us (progressives) in the bag and if they vote no, maybe the tea party types (a few) will either forget to vote or actually vote for them.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. sorry, but progressives sending the Blue Dogs millions of $ is one of the lamest

ideas i've ever heard. :shrug:
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Hmmm...
really. What was it about Obama that convinced you that he was a progressive?

I guess we shouldn't have sent him any money either... (following your logic).
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. What would you negotiate with? There is nothing else on the table to negotiate with. You know that.
Guess what?

You helped make sure the public option was the only option on the table. Now you have nothing else to use as a bargaining chip.


We tried to warn you starting last December but you wouldn't listen. You were too smart by half.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. Where's the example of a co-op anywhere in the U.S. that is working???? Name just ONE!
Until I hear about such an example, I will firmly believe that the co-op plan is a TRICK!!!

I have not heard of even just one measley example that anyone has pointed to, where a co-op is working for the people. Not one.

There are a few co-ops in the U.S., I heard on TV. If so...are they working? Someone else on TV said they are not. They are NOT competition for private insurers, and what they DO provide to the people ain't much.

THIS IS A TRICK, and I will not fall for it. Hey, if they want to throw in co-ops on top of a public option, maybe that's okay. BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A PUBLIC OPTION, AND WILL NOT OFFER REAL CHOICE TO US, THE CITIZENS!
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. I am deeply impressed to see you say, "No public option is not an option."
I will bookmark this thread in case you need reminding later when, and if, the Democratic Party sells us out wholesale.

:dem:

-Laelth
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. She will switch gears and tell you that co-ops are a public option
Bookmarked it is!
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
16. kr
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. kickety kick kick. . . n/t
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. it may be no option to you, but it's what we're going to get . . .
the insurance companies have decreed "no public option," and they run the show . . . if they say "no public option," you can bet next month's rent that there will be no public option . . .
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R - Obama is asking us to hold his feet to the fire!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. kickety kick kick. . . n/t
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. The public option is non-negotiable not because a co-op can't do the same thing
but because it is simply too much of a shot in the dark. I can't honestly say one couldn't be structured to do the same thing at least hypothetically but because that is very damned dicey. A national option, even a weak one gives us a structure to build on.

The only room for a compromise I see is to call this a last ditch effort to maintain our traditional market based approach and to put in benchmarks that must be reached for the industry over the next decade or it will automatically trigger single payer. That trigger along with regulatory reform that supposedly has wide bipartisan support would give me enough of a gun to keep them honest that I could even support doing away with the option and co-ops too. Such a set up would by definition fix the problem one way or the other. Insurance would either become a responsible citizen or go the way of the dinosaur.

The pitch is simple, if you believe the market can work for the country, then it will have the chance to prove it and if not we have no choice but to take action to preserve the economic security of the United States. 40-50% of GDP is a national security issue and ideology cannot be allowed to trump national security.
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