TPM: Man Outside Phoenix Rally with Assault Rifle & Handgun

Excellent News!
08.17.09 -- 12:32PM By Josh Marshall
Man at pro-reform health care rally outside Obama event in Phoenix seen carrying assault rifle and pistol. Police watching closely.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/excellent_news_5.php?ref=fpblg

Pic at link below of guy with his rifle & pistol. Guy is African-American.

A man, who decided not to give his name, was walking around the pro-health care reform rally at 3rd and Washington streets, with a pistol on his hip, and an AR-15 (a semi-automatic assault rifle) on a strap over his shoulder.

A man, who decided not to give his name, was walking around the pro-health care reform rally at 3rd and Washington streets, with a pistol on his hip, and an AR-15 (a semi-automatic assault rifle) on a strap over his shoulder.

"Because I can do it," he said when asked why he was armed. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms."

Two police officers were staying very close to the man.

"What he is doing is perfectly legal," Detective J. Oliver, of the Phoenix police department said. "We are here to keep the peace. If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time."

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/08/17/20090817obama-scene.html

Oh wow - an African-American guy - wonder what side he is on? Getting bizarro out there.

him. What a moron. Clearly that guy is trying to compensate for something.

comes out of what they do. Bush would have had him shot. This guy will never be able to come to things like this without his name being on their idiot list.

and says he has a constitutional right to defend himself with the dynamite, will Repub senators applaud him for that?

to do this? WHY aren't they automatically arrested-and then asked questions while they're in custody?

The guy is breaking no laws...

If the people there don't like it they should pass a law against it.

If you bring a gun to a Presidential event, you should be hauled out of the vicinity. Asshat. Arizona is that special kind of place that has wingnuts every color of the rainbow.

Edited to add: nice shirt and pants on him.

it's the brain activity or lack thereof.

He'd be okay with that?

I'm only doing it "because I can", you gun-nut fucktard.

If he was making a threatening gesture at the rally, the story would be different.

And simply carrying a gun isn't a threatening gesture. People carry all the time, it's illegal and a threatening gesture to point a weapon without just cause at someone. It's simply not a threatening gesture to carry in public, if it was, I've been arrested a dozen times over.

But it's threatening to me. Not illegal (even though it should be IMO), just threatening.

It may not be the cleverest way to do it but he feels like he's making a political statement and I don't see how he's threatening anyone.

Why wasn't he arrested and hauled off to jail?

Another death?

No one, let me repeat, no one other than his bodyguards should be carrying a gun in the vicinity of any president in a civilized society. No one.

How long before you realize it?

Our rights don't get suspended in the presence of POTUS. Man, bush and cheney would have loved that. Maybe it's not the best idea but that man is within his rights.

No one, let me repeat, no one other than his bodyguards should be carrying a gun in the vicinity of any president in a civilized society. No one.

No one is carrying a gun in the vicinity of the president. At least if by "in the vicinity" you mean "able to threaten the president". The secret service is not going to allow anyone within range of the president with a gun.

You are being intellectually dishonest or you have rocks in your head. Not sure which.

It could be an attempt to threaten or he could consider it a political protest. But if he's not breaking the law, what do you propose to do about it?

Our founders enumerated the right of the people to keep and bear arms so that they retain the ultimate power over their government. Of course it is a threat. These protesters are making the political statement that they keep and bear arms and, presumably, are willing to use them in defense of what they see as tyranny.

The problem, of course, is that these people's vision of "tyranny" is warped. We should have seen these kinds of protests concerning the "war on terror", torture, suspension of habeus corpus, rendition, and pervasive domestic surveillance.

One can only hope that these people are fringe and do not grow into a majority position.

Just showing up and looking mean?

Maybe speaking?

Another death?

No one, let me repeat, no one other than his bodyguards should be carrying a gun in the vicinity of any president in a civilized society. No one.

The SS decides the zones of security they feel they need. This man was outside any of them, and breaking no laws..

I am wondering if he did this to send a message to the (white) guys who have been doing the same thing at these rallies....you know, sending a message that black folks are armed, too. Or maybe he's doing it to "test" law enforcement, to see if he gets the same or different treatment than others who have brought weapons. Maybe he wants to get interviewed on Hardball too. Who knows.

Any way you look at it, I don't like the idea of spoiling for a bloodbath at these events. It seems to bring out The Crazy.

Ironic that this happened in AZ, when the NH dude who did this said he thought AZ gun laws were too restrictive....

:scared:

start doing this.......

He was hoping 40-50 people or more would show up packing. I'm predicting it will be a trend. We'll see how big it gets.

This kind of gun-nuttery is going to get somebody dead.

I don't think so. Somebody is going to be killed.

Where were all the gun-toters when we had suspension of habeus corpus, torture, pervasive domestic surveillance, and rendition?

I wish I had the guts to do it.

to these events en masse and posing a much more real threat simply by the numbers they present to local law enforcement.

This has the potential to spiral out of control very quickly.

:wtf:

I am not defending him in the slightest--in fact, it is truly stupid to "allow" people to be anywhere near the president with weapons, because if one can do it, so can thousands, and then how will they all be "watched"?
But maybe he isn't on the side of the astroturds.
Or maybe he is simply a nut who is, as he says, doing it "because he can."

if the New Black Panther Party started showing up to these townhalls legally armed. Bill O would have a fit. How about if ACORN showed up with guns? Just a thought.

imagine the hysteria, but thats a legitimate thoughts and question.

Looks like we are heading down that path.

But guns rights folks would welcome the new black panthers to show up bearing arms.

be allowed to bring loaded guns to political rallies. There needs to be a law passed before it's too damn late.

:grr:

All the other white gun nuts are happy to give their names and appear on cable news.

When you know someone doesn't intend to use it, makes for some very interesting theater. I'd like to take that guy to dinner.

now lets see how this plays out.....




Edit to post the video; http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/08/video_at_least_one_man_shows_up_with_assault_rifle.php

getting testy out there....

You must have one since you described the rifle as being one.

or you're just trying to be non participant.

sounded to me as if you're attacking the poster of this thread as oppose to the article,
by asking the poster to explain whats an assault rifle?

It makes no sense to people who have knowledge of semi-automatic weapons. It is a scare term used to try and ban otherwise legitimate rifles.

and that does look like an assault rifle to me.....an M16 to be exact.

Better the NYT description than allowing the Gun Loon movement to control the conversation......

exactly what the term "semi-automatic weapons" means besides something related to "assault". And then I will give you directions to a facility where you may find comfort and medication.

to suit you to make your point. This is not the thread to get in to that argument. Depending how his weapon was configured it could've been classified as such under the expired AWB. BTW I thought the AWB was dumb.

I posted the headline TPM had up - go ask them. And take your discussion to the Gun Discussion forum here.

every American should desire. :crazy:

I'm VERY CONCERNED that more and more NUTS are going to "jump the track" and shoot up places using their automatic assault weapons. THEN instead of four or five dead, we'll have DOZENS of innocents murdered .... and for what? NOTHING.

God Bless America where everyone can spray hundreds of thousands of bullets with their FULL-AUTO Assault Rifles when their paranoia throws them out of touch with their humanity. :sarcasm:

It fires one shot for every trigger pull. It doesn't "spray" anyplace. This is real life not the movies.

Assault weapons are not ideal for HUNTING. If people love to target shoot, they should check assault weapons in at their local armory.

Yeah, I live in the real world and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

There's no need to have weapons that can be altered to "automatic" easily for the general populace.

That's why we have the National Guard (our militia).

Everyone else should enjoy hunting, sport shooting, etc. ... NOT AUTOMATIC WEAPONS to accumulate for the day when SOME of these people will "go off" and kill SCORES of innocent Americans.

Law Enforcement, The National Guard and The Reserves are the only places for AUTOMATIC Weapons.

The second amendment says nothing about hunting or target practice or collecting or any of the other reasons gun haters try to say the amendment is there for. If you don't like the second amendment be upfront and try to get it repealed. I sure those who hate the first amendment and other parts of the Bill of Rights will be happy to join forces with you.

should be maintained by the military (NG, Reserves, AD) or law enforcement.

The only use for automatic weapons is MAXIMUM KILLING POTENTIAL. That is not for "citizens" and should not be recognized by the Second Amendment.

I'm sickened by the violence that our American Society will be subject to as more and more CRAZED right wingers lose their grasp on sanity.

It's bad enough when a crazed killer has semi-automatic weapons and kills up to 40-50 people. When they de-compensate and lash out with the use of automatic weapons, they'll have the capability to murder hundreds of people before taking themselves OUT. At least most of them spare us the horror of a trial.

It's sick ... there's no need for automatic weapons to be in the hands of non-military or non-law enforcement personnel.

And yes, I like my firearms and fired "expert" when I qualified with the military. However, the owning of a firearm is not an attachment essential to my personal well-being.

Believe it or not, one can enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with-out owning full automatic assault rifles.

You know that you can empty a semi-auto in seconds even with having to pull the trigger for every shot. That is a high capacity magazine probably 30 rounds he has in that AR.

Bringing that to a political rally is intimidation not asserting your gun rights or asserting your right to self-defense.

If some whack job decides to unleash their gun on a crowd I sure hope the Secret Service or police snipers do have him on their scope.

Volatile political rallies especially IMHO are the wrong place to be making gun right points. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Truthfully, if you saw these guys walking your streets carrying that - bet 90+% of us would be calling 911.

Nor are any assault weapons automatic.

A legal Fully Automatic weapon might be harder (and more expensive) to get than you might think.

to bring a loaded weapon to a Presidential or other major public event.

A). Get arrested to make some faux civil liberties point

B). Get killed (martyred) to again make some faux civil liberties point.

(oh and perhaps a third, feeling "manly" for a change)

that they desire. It is to appear intimidating (manly) and to get some attention for it. But it is also intentional arrest bait. Having their manliness confiscated by the police at such an event is one of their conspiracy wet dreams.

I would not be intimidated as they will never draw and level it at anyone. That would be all the excuse the police would need for an arrest. They do not want a justified arrest as their martyrdom for the second ammendment would not be complete.

The second ammendment cranks carrying obvious weapons are not the problem. They are just out to make a stupid political point. It is the ones carrying concealed weapons that are the concern.

If the jerks wearing guns do not know that they are being closely watched, then they are fools. One should not be intimidated by fools. If they make a move for the gun, they will be dropped where they stand.

More to do with testing a theory.

"civilized" nation?

Suuuuure.

Because tonight, I'm the one who picks the stories. Because I can't believe this is happening. I can't remember a single incident when Democratic protesters brought guns where Bush was speaking and openly displayed them.

Here's a Phoenix station that has the AP Version. http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1200460

PHOENIX - About a dozen people carrying guns, including one with an AR-15 assault rifle, milled among protesters outside an event where President Barack Obama was giving a speech Monday in Phoenix.

It's the latest incident of gun-rights advocates visibly displaying firearms near the president.


Phoenix police say the people with guns, including a man carrying the assault rifle, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.

The man carrying the assault rifle declined to be identified, but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the weapon because he could, adding that he still has some freedoms.

Last week, during Obama's town hall meeting in Portsmouth, N.H., a man stood outside with a gun strapped to his leg.

Complete with a picture.

Let's not talk about TYPES of guns...I'd like to talk about WHO WAS CARRYING GUNS. Your handle suggests you are a Democrat who is pro-gun rights (however you define that). I just want to know how you feel it is a good idea that people who clearly do not agree with democratic government are standing outside the area where Obama is with guns.

And then I'd like to know if you think there may be some folks there who might agree with us who have brought guns just to say "we can do this too".

Why is this man being so eviscerated when he is not breaking any laws, carrying a legal weapon, and clearly is not threatening anybody with it (as said by law enforcement, secret service, and THE MAN HIMSELF?

He was standing outside the federal ground that was guarded by the secret service, he was no threat, and he had no intention of becoming one (his gun was slung over his shoulder not pointed at anyone). He was exercising his freedom to carry, that is the bottom line. I would be more shocked if he in fact WAS arrested.

It is a good idea to be able to carry a weapon outside of a presidential rally because that is an integral part of the second amendment of the constitution of the United States of America. Being able to carry a firearm (non-threatening of course) to damn near anywhere outside of federal ground for self-defense! It is the responsibility of the secret service to make sure he is no threat to the President, not the duty of the common man to disarm himself when it is his right to arm himself.

This man is more sane than you people apparently think. He knew the laws and exercised his rights within the bounds of law. He was doing this because he felt like exercising his rights, perhaps in front of one he thinks would take them away.

An armed populace is an integral part of a Democracy. While these days it would be difficult to truly threaten a government intent on taking our rights away with an armed rebellion due to the sheer difference of firepower available, it is the symbolism that matters.

That said, the Obama administration is not the 'threatening government' I am speaking of...

This socialism scare is a bunch of hooey. Obama is a centrist, and I believe he is truly trying to inject competition into health insurance.

the personal opinion of someone else, specifically. If you have a comment about the Original post, please reply to that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G_Zxup7esU


And as for this nonsensical statement:
"It is a good idea to be able to carry a weapon outside of a presidential rally because that is an integral part of the second amendment of the constitution of the United States of America."

That's like saying: It is a good idea to eat chicken with the feathers still attached because they are an integral part of the chicken.

and we were slammed as anti-American.

In Denver a 68 year old Librarian was arrested for wearing a McCain = Bush t-shirt.

if these gun totters pulled their pants down to show us their tiny penises (while at a public event) they'd be arrested in a heart beat. Show off their compensation piece to threaten the POTUS, nothing happens. We lived in a fucked up country.

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