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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:40 PM Original message

Thom Hartmann imitates AP

Dear President Obama: A Modest Medicare Proposal by Thom Hartmann Dear President Obama, I understand you're thinking of dumping your "public option" because of all the demagoguery by Sarah Palin and Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich and their crowd on right-wing radio and Fox. Fine. Good idea, in fact. Instead, let's make it simple. Please let us buy into Medicare. more Nice RW talking points. Give the RW assholes credit for something the media twisted and then say it's a good idea. Good grief.

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rocktivity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:42 PM Response to Original message

1. I think he's being sarcastic--this was debunked last night.

After all, look at what he followed up that line WITH! :headbang: rocktivity

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Hieronymus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:46 PM Response to Reply #1

5. Debunked? Link?

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:44 PM Response to Original message

2. Did you actually bother the READ Hartmann's letter?

Hmmm?

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:45 PM Response to Reply #2

3. Why, is there more to it?

RW talking points suck.

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #3

9. There's plenty more to it. He's advocating the expansion of Medicare to cover everybody.

Only idiots read headlines & think they know what the story is.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:50 PM Response to Reply #9

12. I meant more to it than posted.

How the hell long do you think it takes to read a few sentences? Only idiots assume.

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:08 PM Response to Reply #12

20. You obviously don't possess basic 5th grade reading comprehension skills.

Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 03:10 PM by baldguy His point is why create a new "public option"? especially if he won't be able to get it through this Congress, but mostly because we already have one. There's no sense in beating your head against a wall, or reinventing the wheel. Medicare is already here, it's extremely popular & impossible for the GOP to kill. How is that a RW talking point?

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #20

22. This from someone who appears to be clueless

Medicare for all, aka single payer, has no chance of passing. Hartmann didn't need to set up his article by crediting the RW with having killed the public option.

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:27 PM Response to Reply #22

28. Who said the expansion of Medicare is dead? Why are *YOU* promoting a RW talking point?

The fact is it was never on the table in the first place. And you do know why it was taken off, don't you? Because the Democratic leadership in Congress caved on it to the GOP. Hartmann wants them to turn it around by changing the debate to give the Dems home field advantage. Again: How is wanting a real discussion about healthcare reform a RW talking point?

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:29 PM Response to Reply #28

31. Here's what I said: "Medicare for all, aka single payer, has no chance of passing." Now

give up the desperate attempt to distort that statement.

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:56 PM Response to Reply #31

36. And that is a talking point of - among others - Dick Armey, Newt Gingrich,

John Boehner, Eric Cantor and the rest of the GOP leadership. You're laboring under the impression that the lies like this that the GOP and the RW are spreading are true. The thing is - it's NEVER BEEN ON THE TABLE. Primarily because the GOP knows they can't win against it. Finally HARTMANN ISN'T EVEN TALKING ABOUT "MEDICARE FOR ALL"! (As you would have known if you had read it!) He's just proposing allowing anyone who wants to, to buy into it. There will certainly be those who don't wish to buy into it - and they should be free not to. But it would be available for everyone else.

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cui bono (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:50 PM Response to Reply #31

54. Why do you believe that? Me thinks you've fallen into the talking point trap.

Not sure which side it came from though. Remember when people said a black man couldn't be elected president? Medicare has the fact that a lot of Rethuglicans already voted for it on its side. So why not extend it to everyone as an option? It doesn't have to be single payer in that there can still be insurance as another option.

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DU9598 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:45 PM Response to Original message

4. You're misreading it

He is accusing Obama of dumping it. Thereafter he says that if you're dumping it, fine, so here is a better idea anyway. Thomm is not giving any credit for lying and smearing and fear mongering. He is saying that if the public option is gone, that is fine, just buy into medicare. I think he has a terrific point. I support this idea.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:46 PM Response to Reply #4

7. No, I didn't misread it

"He is accusing Obama of dumping it" because the RW got to him.

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rurallib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:49 PM Response to Reply #7

11. Listening to him now. I think you are way over reacting.

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cui bono (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:52 PM Response to Reply #11

55. Wa-ay.

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Hieronymus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #7

13. I like Hartmann's proposal. Obama didn't cave?

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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:46 PM Response to Original message

6. Methinks he was being facetious... n/t

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #6

10. Sorry,

I don't like sarcasm that plays up GOP talking points Politico: GOP gains steam as health bill sputters

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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:03 PM Response to Reply #10

18. I hear you. People aren't savvy enough to differentiate between

sarcasm and reality. I hope Thom knows what he's doing...

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rurallib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:47 PM Response to Original message

8. Call me stupid but what's the problem with his proposal?

From the very beginning my dream was that Medicare simply be made available to all Americans with some kind of sliding scale premium. Frankly I think it is a brilliant idea. No need to set up new bureaucracy, just build up the existing office. 45 years of experience. And maybe they could fund it decently with Dems in charge?

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Hieronymus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:59 PM Response to Reply #8

17. Hartmann is brilliant and very Liberal. It's absurd for Obama supporters

to attack him.

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ihavenobias (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:24 PM Response to Reply #17

27. Amen.

And his letter is concise and perfectly stated. He NAILED it.

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Gold Metal Flake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:52 PM Response to Original message

14. Nice Right Wing attack on Hartmann.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:55 PM Response to Reply #14

15. Wait, Tom can make a RW attack on Obama, but being called on it is RW?

Then let's call it even. There are thousands of ways to criticize Obama without crediting the RW, especially when they're using this incident to play up that very thing.

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rurallib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:12 PM Response to Reply #15

21. Thom Hartmann did not make a right wing attack on Obama

If you listen to Thom, this has pretty much been his position for years. Just allow people to opt in to medicare. Hartmann sees this as an opportunity to get a great outcome from what looks like a rather bleak moment. Should Obama follow Hartmann's suggestion, I believe Obama would be looked at as one of the greats.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:15 PM Response to Reply #21

23. Oh, please.

See the OP.

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rurallib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:18 PM Response to Reply #23

24. tell me - do you evr listen to Hartmann? Did you listen today?

Thom is one of the truly brilliant minds on the left. Would you not want opt in to Medicare as an option? I have for decades.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:20 PM Response to Reply #24

25. What does wanting to opt into Medicare

have to do with him crediting Sarah Palin for the death of the public option, something that isn't even true?

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rurallib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:29 PM Response to Reply #25

30. He didn't say Palin alone. he said the whole RW reaction

which is apparently what has happened. If not that what did kill it? in your own words "demagoguery by Sarah Palin and Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich and their crowd on right-wing radio and Fox" The all out assault by the right wing seems to have intimidated the hell out of somebody. Not just Palin. And all Hartmann is saying is here is a chance to take a bad situation and turn it into a real victory with a real viable solution. So what difference if your miffed because you thinkHartmann gave credit to Palin. Let's take this situation and make something great out of it.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:31 PM Original message

What? You believe the Sarah Palin and the RW caused Obama to pull the public option? n/t

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rurallib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:44 PM Response to Original message

33. I asked you what did? Right now it seems to be a move to placate

a couple of senators including Grassley after an orchestrated assault. And it makes little difference what I think anyway. The timing and tone suggests that the whole assault had some affect and sadly will play as such in the media. That is why it is so important that he come up with a game saver soon. Else whether it be true or not it will look bad and will signal the effective end of his admin.

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cui bono (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:54 PM Response to Reply #25

58. You really need to look at the big picture.

He's come up with a great car and you're complaining that you don't like the color. Besides he was being facetious.

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Gold Metal Flake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:21 PM Response to Reply #15

26. Pretending to misconstrue is a RW tactic.

Continuing to misconstrue in an argument to press the RW attack on a progressive is also a RW tactic. Standard issue RW BS, as evidenced all over this thread by the author of the OP.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:27 PM Response to Reply #26

29. Explain what I misconstrued

Here: I understand you're thinking of dumping your "public option" because of all the demagoguery by Sarah Palin and Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich and their crowd on right-wing radio and Fox. Fine.

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Gold Metal Flake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:27 PM Response to Reply #29

48. That's it! You're good.

Well paid, I'll wager.

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cui bono (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:59 PM Response to Reply #29

59. Dude. Context. Big picture. Count to 10. Thom is WAY on our side.

You must not ever listen to him or you'd know that. But you could at least take the entire letter in and keep things in context. You are distorting the meaning. You really don't need to be angry about this. If you're not familiar with his radio show give it a listen. You can get podcasts for free through iTunes and probably with some other app, that's the one I use. Peace out.

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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 02:58 PM Response to Original message

16. Thom Hartmann knows MORE about this stuff

than YOU EVER WILL. So, STFU.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #16

19. "So, STFU." No, you STFU. n/t

Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 03:05 PM by ProSense

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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #16

34. You're always telling people to STFU..

what kind of "liberal" are you?

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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:07 PM Response to Reply #34

44. The kind who takes up for their friends....

:evilgrin:

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DU GrovelBot   (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:31 PM Response to Original message

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:55 PM Response to Original message

35. A people really that lacking in education?

The freaking title doesn't give it away? Sheesh. It's a classic paper, by Swift, lampooning simple, and outrageous, solutions to complex social problems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Did Thom really have to literally suggest eating babies to make his point, or would that have been missed, too?

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 03:57 PM Response to Reply #35

37. At least one is.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 04:29 PM Response to Reply #35

39. I really don't give a damn about the title.

I object to his friggin lede. Is that OK with you?

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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 04:38 PM Response to Reply #39

40. You object to eating babies, then?

Even in times of famine? Or, perhaps, since you didn't understand the tone set by the title, you're upset by his deliberate use of the absurd to mock a given viewpoint?

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 04:49 PM Response to Reply #40

41. Sorry,

this is the American RW and media we're talking about here. You know, the ones debating whether or not the Democrats are proposing legislation that will mandate killing grandma. That's not satire.

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 04:58 PM Response to Reply #41

42. No, it's THOM HARTMANN we're talking about.

He's as far from the RW media as you can get.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:06 PM Response to Reply #42

43. Did I say Hartmann was the RW media? n/t

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:25 PM Response to Reply #43

47. Didn't you?

OP: Nice RW talking points. #3: RW talking points suck. #22: Hartmann didn't need to set up his article by crediting the RW with having killed the public option. #7: "He is accusing Obama of dumping it" because the RW got to him. #10: I don't like sarcasm that plays up GOP talking points #15: Wait, Tom can make a RW attack on Obama, but being called on it is RW? #41: this is the American RW and media we're talking about here Yes, you did.

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:39 PM Response to Reply #47

50. What? Saying he's using RW talking points is the same as saying he's part of the RW media? n/t

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:53 PM Response to Reply #50

56. What defines the RW media?

Um, the use of RW talking points. You're using them; Hartmann isn't.

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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:18 PM Response to Reply #35

46. Thank you for your post. It was more productive than mine....

I tend to get carried away when defending people I admire.

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NRaleighLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 04:03 PM Response to Original message

38. K&R. I try to listen to Thom when I can - the man is brilliant. n/t

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proud patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:13 PM Response to Reply #38

45. He's on green960 right now

I'm listening and he's talking about this as I'm typing .

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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:34 PM Response to Original message

49. Hartmann imitates Jonathon Swift...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:39 PM Response to Reply #49

51. Jonathan Swift? Who's that?

Some RW tool, no doubt. :sarcasm:

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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 06:03 PM Response to Reply #49

60. Oh, is that who

everyone who claims Obama is caving to the RW is imitating? There is nothing satirical about Hartmann's proposal. I maintain: RW talking points, especially those that reinforce the current media spin, wasn't necessary to make his point, and the rest of his piece isn't satire.

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ChimpersMcSmirkers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:42 PM Response to Original message

52. Mirror image of DU

Take the talking points from where ever you can get them and sling them at the president.

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cui bono (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:46 PM Response to Original message

53. You have to read the rest of the letter. His point is let everyone buy into medicare.

That that is better and far simpler than hammering out new legislation. Just change the age requirement and adjust some prices to buy in so everyone can afford it. And since medicare passed with plenty of Rethugs voting for it they can't - well of course they still will - argue against it since they are on record as having voted for it. Simple. That was his point. You can't just read part of it and get the whole context. But boy did he sound tired and worn down today when dealing with opposition callers. And it's only Monday.

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tularetom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 05:54 PM Response to Original message

57. Hartmann is stating the opinions of many on DU including myself

We like and support President Obama. We would never use right wing talking points to attack him. We believe the president made a mistake in attempting to craft a health care reform package with bipartisan support. We think that it is unnecessarily complex to attempt to create a new regulatory structure for a public health insurance option. We feel that Medicare is a successful and accepted program and is managed efficiently and wisely, and the management structure for Medicare already exists. Therefore we agree that the best solution to a public option is to amend Medicare in order to make it available to all Americans.

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brentspeak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Mon Aug-17-09 06:04 PM Response to Original message

61. Maybe ProSense can explain to all here why he's working both sides of the street:

Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 06:05 PM by brentspeak In this particular OP, the one I'm responding to right now, he's blasting Thom Hartmann for criticizing Obama. However, in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8590322">this ProSense thread from yesterday, ProSense himself is trying to get people worked up against Obama. What's the story behind this?

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