I will not be visiting Tennessee anytime soon.

Tennessee is a beautiful state.. The Smokey Mountains are breath taking. But with their new law allowing people to carry concealed weapons in a restaurant, I would not feel safe visiting there anymore.

This will probably hurt tourism for them.

I doubt that restaurants are going to be much of a holdup target for thieves.

But, if you want to be a gun wuss, there is nothing stopping you from feeling that way, and acting on that feeling. Me, I will have to make sure I visit Tennessee in the near future.

than I would in the absolutely, positively beautiful gun free zone of South Chicago. Besides, I'd have my own Sig with me.

sitting next to you. Safer, actually.

What makes you gun lovers such fraidy cats?

enough, that if you carry concealed, you expect trouble. People who expect trouble have a hair trigger reaction. Restaurants are full of kids and people, who may make someone with a hair trigger nervous.

No thanks

With over 25 years of liberalized concealed carry laws in this country, the phenomenon you are afraid of would surely have created a measurable amount of crime by now.

The state of Texas tracks convictions for people who have concealed weapons permits. It's clear that people with concealed weapons permits are far less likely to commit crimes than are members of the general public.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

and fully support his policies, while eating a leisurely lunch with your partner. You might get shot.

:sarcasm:

You carry them like it is fun for you. It is like a middle age crisis. Or a guy riding harleys.

Makes you feel tough I guess.

I did until 1993, however. And I will again when I don't need permission from two of my neighbors to have one (because I live in New York). How many of your neighbors do you need the approval of to go to the church of your choice or write a letter to the editor?

or letters to editors??

You assume that any one who has a concealed carry - or a SUV - must be compensating for some thing. Is it a projection of your own inadequacies? Please no penis jokes. They are getting tiresome.

How civil. :eyes:

But that's a politically correct term here.

Fair enough.

it's what people who need phallic symbols call those of us who don't

One man's "gun wuss" is simply another man's prudent behavior.

i imagine it's just as petty to visit the state due to the law as it is to avoid it due to the law. But more often than not, these threads are merely six of one, half a dozen of the other-- each attempting to masquerade as cleverness.

I don't know how it can be denied. You really don't need a gun on hand in this age in this country. What a person needs is common sense and wisdom, gun or no. I have lived in dangerous places and never needed a gun. What I did need was a square head on my shoulder and care. Using your mind and wits is much more defensive than a gun would ever be in a society like ours.

Now if we really had an unlawful society one might have a better point. But we just aren't there.

So dude mentions he doesn't want to go into a restaurant where people might be carrying and you call dude a wuss.

Fail. Complete FAIL.

into a restaurant, a bar or any state park in TN. I don't want to be in any of these places with gun toter's. So many are gun nuts and perhaps a little trigger happy. I live in TN but go out to eat, have drinks and to state parks in KY

Perhaps we should outlaw carrying tobacco into restraunt as well?

Sorry, I could not resist.

Crazy law they passed in Tennessee.

The law retains a provision that the person carrying cannot drink.

Unless you think that the mere proximity of the gun to the liquor bottle will cause the gun to fire spontaneously, this is not going to cause drunken gunfights.

People drive drunk in cars. To think people with concealed guns will not drink in a restaurant or bar is magical thinking

I was young and stupid once and managed to live through it. Once I'm home, however, I've been known to have a few.

but in a restaurant or in a bar? My husband plays in a band and I have been in enough bars to see tons of bar fights. Add guns to the mix and add some alcohol and you have lots of trouble. It all depends on that person carrying the gun and their judgment. Of course, most people don't go to bars to not drink...

that if carrying concealed was allowed, someone would easily get shot.

Now, someone may try to argue that if people know you can carry concealed, they would be less likely to start a fight in a bar or restaurant. However, people who have "had a few too many" aren't known for their rational thinking and emotional control are they?

If people are willing to break the law, they will have concealed guns and drink in bars.

How would repealing this law change that?

while carrying, what makes you think they'll obey one that prohibits carrying in a restaurant or bar?

Or will they have metal detectors?

Another useless gun law.

And if a person is inclined to be non-law abiding, it doesn't make any difference what laws we make, anyway.

If someone pisses you off there, you can just shoot them.

then you can theoretically carry anywhere, except in the workplace, unless the employer allows it. The republican business lobby beat the NRA on that one.

You know it woman! Now let that duck go or I'll blow your head off!!:rofl:

Winchester Super-X Ammunition 225 Winchester 55 Grain Pointed Soft Point Box of 20

...and some Ketchup...

:crazy:

If he can't get a date for dinner, he may find comfort in stroking his little gun.

.. because BUBBA and Amberly LOVE to go new places with their guns on their hips.

But it's not all bad, the women there are REALLY hot. ;)

You are a drama queen if you believe you are in danger visting TN.

If you need to carry concealed to restaurants in Tennessee, then you can call me all the names you want to.. I am not putting myself in such a situation.

If so, does the law differ in restaraunts that serve alcohol versus being 'dry'?

I do not go to the bars, or take little kids to the bar. Even in the bars.. you carry concealed because you have fear for your personal safety.

If you are someplace that you are so nervous to be, that you need to carry concealed, then I do not want to be there.

http://www.iowacarry.org/pages.php?pageid=13
I don't see ANYTHING about restaurants there? :shrug:

After more reading, it looks like you can own silencers and machine guns too with SOT licensing.

I'm a gay mixed race male.


I'm not afraid to dine in Gatlinburg with a date or my black sister-in-law.



Get a clue.

to see him one last time. One of my brothers and I drove through Missouri (a state that I've visited in the past), Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Louisiana. I'll never forget how jarring it was to see a sign on a restaurant at which we stopped for breakfast somewhere along the highway in Mississippi, I believe, stating that weapons should be left in your vehicle. That combined with this famous Southern "hospitality" made me decide that I would never return to the South for any reason. The "hospitality" reminded me of the formal system of etiquette practiced in the Middle East--a thin and brittle veneer which shines up a lot of ugly underneath. I was the Yankee down there and the grinning in your face that passed for hospitality gave way more than once when I caught unguarded moments of sheer stony stares in sideway glances at those same people. I did not feel safe or welcome there, and I would never return.

you are not

1. White?
2. Christian?
3. Heterosexual?

1. White.
2. Not practicing any religion.
3. Heterosexual married to a black man, who could not accompany me on that trip.

I do recognize a BS formal etiquette system for what it is...something to artificially hold together a society with a lot of grievances and injustice at the core and no willingness to change. It was no different than what I saw in my years in the ME--corrupt to the core, fundamentalist without reason, and so smug in certitude.

but I guess, regardless, you stood out as a Yankee. If someone had called me a "Yankee" I would have said, "no maam/sir, I'm a Red Sox fan."

The law that you are referring to leaves the option up to the proprietor of the business whether or not people can carry guns inside their bars or restaurants. One bar owner in Bristol placed a sign saying that guns were not allowed in his establishment. Of course he was ridiculed by the gun lovers. Others told him "thank you" and it has not hurt his business one iota. Kudos to him. As far as the parks issue, you can now carry guns inside state parks, but each municipality has the right to vote pro or con when it comes to carrying guns in local city parks. If they don't vote against it by sometime in September, then people will be allowed to carry after that. Some local towns and cities have voted against the new law and some haven't.

This being said,I don't have any problem going into restaurants that allow one to carry inside. A lot of people carry guns around here and while I don't particularly care for it, I don't feel intimidated by it. I refuse to live in fear of what may or may not happen. I have been a person that thinks that the NRA, as a whole, is full of crackpots with the likes of Ted Nugent, LaPierre and their ilk. I believe that it started out as a good organization that got taken over by radicals. I don't like the fear politics and scare tactics used by them.

Please don't allow this law to stop you from visiting Tennessee. It is beautiful and most of the people are polite law abiding people. Although it is sometimes difficult being a liberal and hearing all the right wing garbage that comes out of people's mouths around here. The political landscape has changed quite a bit since Bush screwed over so many people. A lot of people are finally seeing the light and becoming more progressive. A lot of times I am so offended about the negative words that some people on here use about the south in general. Please remember,we are all different. We in the south are not all redneck,bible thumping,gay bashing,ignorant,pro gun,right wing,anti choice,racist hillbillies. Some of us prefer to deviate from the norm around them.

Proud to be a liberal southerner.:grouphug:

I've lived in Bristol for many years and would like to point out that the City Council here (as well as in nearby Johnson City) voted to ban weapons in the parks.

You are also correct about the effect of eight years of Bush. I work in an office that is almost exclusively populated by people who consider themselves conservative republicans. In the past couple of years I've started to hear grudging admissions of the damage he did to this country and that our politicians need to be working for the people rather than their corporate interests.

Not everyone in Tennessee is the stereotypical redneck and at least some of the conservatives are beginning to see the light

I was going to post much of the same response but figured I should read previous posts first.

A local bar owner wrote an opinion piece for The Tennessean last week blasting a local radio jerk for advocating guns in restaurants. In middle Tennessee, I think a bar/restaurant is more likely to drive customers away as a result of permitting guns rather than attract them. Plus, they're concerned about paying higher insurance premiums.

I'm a gun owner like the aforementioned opinion writer and I think mixing guns and alcohol is a mistake. But hey, I don't make laws I just make adjustments to them.

to go for work and we made a little vacation out of it. After a day out driving to some place or another, we decided we were too tired to cook and stopped to pick up a pizza. My husband waited in the car while I went inside.

I'm a fairly average-looking person. As a teen/college student I was a punk-rock girl but now you wouldn't know it. No piercings, no tattoos, no hair dye, pretty normal clothes. As soon as I walked into the place, though, all eyes were on me. I placed my order and waited near the counter. After a few minutes, the guy behind the counter says, slowly and without a smile "you ain't from around here are ya?"

"No, just visiting."

"I could tell by your glasses"

The last comment was followed by a long stare and total silence. If I hadn't already paid I would've walked out.

Thank *HEAVENS* my husband waited in the car. Imagine what would've happened if they'd seen I was married to an Asian man. *GASP*

It's disgusting for you to stereotype all the residents of 5 states. You sound paranoid as well as prejudiced. I doubt you'd be fit company anywhere.

Louisiana -especially the Southern parishes- is full of friendly, gracious multicultural people. I lived in Louisiana for nearly 20 years. I grew up in GA. If you project your bad attitude I suppose it might get returned. But the South I know does not fit into your stereotypes.

Skidmore, you are best off staying home.:lol:

You may want to add Georgia on your list. Earlier this year they passed a bill to allow those with a Georgia Firearms License to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol but get this even before that bill was passed you were allowed to carry a firearm in a restaurant that served NO alcohol and it's been that way for quite a few years (at least 5 years that I know of when I started paying attention).

All the research shows that concealed carry states are generally safer. I don't have a permit but have friends who have had for many years in 3 Southern states.

Your fear is not rational.

There is no other reason to carry concealed. If you go to a restaurant,carrying concealed, then you are fearful for your safety in that restaurant.

Fear leads to jumpy reactions. Restaurants are full of kids, that can make anyone jumpy.

Carrying concealed in a restaurant is what is irrational.

Liberalized concealed carry has been around for over 25 years.

The fear YOU have articulated has been shown to be irrational by history.

I hate the new gun law. Alot of restuarants are trying to opt out of the law. I know some of the parks are also opting out of the law. The one place I don't think they should be allowed to bring guns into is a bar. It is nuts. I will bet the first person that gets shot in a bar fight than that law will be changed. God forbid if they do it before hand.

See the only problem was when the Georgia bill was passed allowing those carrying firearms to bring them in restaurants that served alcohol people predicted that it would turn into the Wild West with saloon gun fights. Months have passed and nothing has happened. Personally I prefer to be able to have my firearm WITH me rather in a vehicle where someone can break into the car, force my car's glove box open and steal the firearm. Before the bill I would always have to ask to be seated near a window so I could keep an eye on my vehicle.

Has it hurt your state's tourism?

You carry concealed because you expect to be attacked. No other reason, which makes you a dangerous person. People who expect to be attacked are hair trigger.

While that statement is true, the premise that people who carry concealed do so because they expect to be attacked is false. Most people I know who carry are very level-headed and act confidently... moreso when they are armed in acknowlegement of the heightened social responsibility they have taken on.

People who carry just recognize that bad things can happen and they are simply being prepared for whatever. They dont "expect" to encounter trouble or welcome it. I carry... and I don't spose anything will happen to me. I know it's a statistical improbablility I'll ever have to evern reach for my pistol. Still makes me feel more comfortable knowing it's there if I needed it.

I don't expect my car to break down, but I carry tools, a spare tire, flashlights, and fluids just in case. If I expected my car to break down and it hadn't... I'd be driving to the auto repair shop.

Do you expect your house to flood or burn down? Of course not. But you prepare for things like fires and floods with insurance, detectors, and supplies. If you have honest reason to expect something to happen such as a fire, the wise chioce is to act premptively to prevent the fire (call fire dept., evacuate, buy fire monitoring systems...) - not doublefist a pair of extinguishers and invite the apocalypse cowboy-style. :eyes:

You make it sound like people who carry firearms are jumpy and just waiting for the first chance they can get to put some holes in things.

When you are in fear of attack, yes you are much more likely to be hyper aware and hair trigger.

It is part of the human response cycle.

Carrying a loaded firearm that can kill in a matter of seconds is 180 degrees different than carrying insurance from natural disaster when and if it occurs. There is absolutely no comparison

That responsibility argument had one of our county sherriff going off the deep end in the run up to Y2K




"The city would have generators on hand ready to power the buildings if needed. Isaackson does not expect much, if any, shelter demand New Year's Day, but says it makes sense to get ready for a range of possibilities. Other government officials throughout the region feel the same way. In Sioux County in northwest Iowa, Sheriff Jim Schwiesow is very worried.

Schwiesow: It has the potential of being very serious. It has the potential of disrupting all of our transportation. Disrupting the disbursement of our electrical power.

Schwiesow says his Y2K apprehension is based on his Christian faith. He believes judgment day is near and says the computer bug may be part of the societal breakdown that event will bring. He's probably not the only sheriff in America who believes that, but may be the only one acting on it.

Schwiesow: I have about 300-400 people that are licensed to own and carry personal firearms. And I issue those licenses. And I'm going to contact each one of those people by letter and ask if they would be willing and ready to serve as a special deputy if the need would arise"


People who feel the need to carry concealed, I am deathly afraid of.

Your fear is understandable but irrational.

:shrug:

more likely to use a gun.

In our state, we have some real rim jobs also. I just put in one about the idiot sheriff who wanted everyone armed and dangerous Y2K because he thought it was the second coming.

If an average citizen is walking around with concealed carry, they are fearful of being attacked. There is no other reason for carrying a concealed weapon. Not one.



People who are fearful of being attacked, are more likely to use a gun.

and another thing, alcoholics and guns don't mix well

Your profile says you live in Florida... arguably the mecca of concealed carry.
Either you cant seriously mean that or you don't know the local laws.

Man, you can't make this shit up! lol. :rofl:

even when, long ago, when I lived in inner city Detroit I wouldn't allow guns in the house and put anyone out who tried to bring one in. etc., etc.

and you'd never, ever know I was carrying. What do you do, ask everyone you come in contact with if they have a gun on them?

I'm amazed you even leave your house if you're so scared.

What one person may see as "scare" is more often than not merely prudence. Much as I avoid republicans-- not because I'm afraid of them, but merely because they are a waste of my time.

However, I imagine that calling someone "scared" works very well in the sense that it results in a greater sense of self-validation...

How do you do that?

But anyone who doesn't visit because of this probably wouldn't have visited anyway.

I graduated Farragut Highschool...Concord Tennessee. I know the state quite well.

They didn't teach you that "high school" is two words, not one.

We passed a similar law here in Nebraska 5 or 6 years ago. Want to guess how many gunfights we have had?

That said our law outlaws you from taking it into places of business that do not allow. I guess someone forgot to tell the POS who shot up Von Maur that it was against the law.

People and guns... Virginia Tech.. all registered. Hidden under coats or concealed in pockets..

Seriously?! Have you looked at crime rates for the United States lately? Is it a surprise that D.C has one of the highest violent crime rates in the United States? I wonder why... Oh, maybe it is because they have no ownership laws (until recently). Keep in mind that it is not the law abiding citizens that are legally carrying that are responsible for violent crimes, it is those that are illegally carrying.

TN has one of the lower crime rates in the country and I believe this is inversely related to concealed weapons laws. If someone that plans on committing a crime, they are less likely to attack someone that is capable of shooting back.

As far as not visiting TN in the future you don't know what you are missing, and I am sure that we will miss your unmatched charming personality and rapier whit.

for all of those people Calling Tennesseans redneck... I am an active member of the Army and while i was serving my third tour in Iraq, I ran into more soldiers from TN than any other state. It is no secret that TN has the highest volunteer rate for every war/conflict fought by the USA. So remember, that these "rednecks" give their freedom and sometimes their lives for your freedom of speech to call us rednecks.

to pick one with me... Hmmmmmm... Let me think about this.. :rofl:

http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2009/03/23/daily5.html

Tennessee has the nation’s sixth worst crime rate, according to a new study by Congressional Quarterly magazine.

The state remained at 45th on the Crime State Rankings,which ranks states from the lowest to highest crime rates. Tennessee fell one slot above Florida and below Alaska.

Researchers for Washington, D.C.-based CQ Press looked at crime rates in murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary and motor vehicle theft for each state and compared them to the national average.

I guarantee you it's almost zero.

Cordova, TN ٠ 02/06/09. Harry Raymond Coleman, 59, a reported concealed carry licensee
since June 2006, was charged with shooting Robert Schwerin, 52, to death after an argument in
the parking lot of an Italian restaurant. The argument was allegedly over whether Mr.
Schwerin’s automobile was parked too close to Mr. Coleman’s Hummer, and ended with a pointblank
shot to Mr. Schwerin’s chest.21
17 Palm


I have no problems with guns.. I do with concealed... you carry concealed for one reason.. fear..

Someone with a pistol strapped does not bother me one iota.. I may choose to keep distance if I do not know them.

And carrying concealed at a bar.. oh please lets add alcohol to the issue..

And carrying concealed at a bar.. oh please lets add alcohol to the issue..

Nobody is talking about making it legal to carry a concealed weapon while drinking.

slackmaster
87. Do you have any stats on how much of that crime is due to people misusing licensed concealed guns?

I guarantee you it's almost zero.

My answer.. see above post.. but if you really are interested in crime stats by people using legally held concealed weapons

You can go here:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/facts/ccw-crimes-misdeeds.pdf

By the way we are talking alcohol...

http://current.com/items/90415750_restaurant-owners-plea-fails-to-stop-tennessees-guns-in-bars-law.htm

Restaurant owners' plea fails to stop Tennessee's guns-in-bars law


The new state law permitting gun carry permit holders to bring firearms into Tennessee bars and restaurants goes into effect at midnight Monday, after a group of restaurateurs failed to convince a judge to stop it. However, another hearing on the issue has been granted.

Monday afternoon, Randy Rayburn, owner of Sunset Grill, Cabana and Midtown Cafe, asked Davidson County Chancellor Claudia Bonnyman for an injunction against the law, which was vetoed by Gov. Phil Bredesen but affirmed by the Legislature in a veto override. Rayburn contends the new law, which allows carry permit holders to bring handguns into places that serve alcohol, puts his customers and employees at risk.

The Brady piece is a mish-mash of anecdotes, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with lawful concealed carry (e.g. Plaxico Burress shooting himself while carrying illegally).

And once again, in caps so you can read it better, NOBODY IS ADVOCATING MAKING IT LEGAL TO CARRY A WEAPON WHILE DRINKING.

You wanted one fact, and I gave that to you and a link to many others. Statistics hopefully will be an analysis collected facts.. so there is your one stat


And they passed the concealed carry in bars and restaurants in Tennessee, and the restaurant owners are trying to get that overturned because they do not want people who are drinking, carrying in their places of buisness.

If they pass a bill, letting people carry concealed into a bar, then that is by default advocating carrying while drinking.

YOU CAN SHOUT WITH CAPS ALL YOU WANT TOO.. DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS AT HAND.

While they are carrying weapons.

Statistics hopefully will be an analysis collected facts.. so there is your one stat

You evidently have no idea what the word "statistics" means.

1. (used with a sing. verb) The mathematics of the collection, organization, and interpretation of numerical data, especially the analysis of population characteristics by inference from sampling.
2. (used with a pl. verb) Numerical data.


Statistics can be manipulated to prove a point of view. That is where the old adage of lies, damn lies and statistics comes from

I deal with facts.. statistics can be facts or made up data.. it matters not. what you are looking at is the interpretation of what is the stated data.

Why carry concealed to a bar? People carrying concealed into a bar are there to drink. You might get a few percent who go to see someone, but you do not go to a bar to get a coke or a cup of coffee..

It's called cherry-picking, and that is exactly what you are doing.

but I assumed you wanted to deal with facts only.

You are far more likely to be injured or killed in a car crash on the way to or from a restaurant than by a concealed weapons permit holder while you are dining.

And it take a LOT :sarcasm: of courage to go into a restaurant packing a concealed weapon. You add people drinking to that mix, sucks eggs

You are consumed with fear of your fellow citizens.

You go there to sit and let people see the little lump in the shoulder holster?

Why does anyone go to a bar?

Let me see.. hmmmmm why go to a bar? What is in a bar that anyone would want to go to?

Alcohol you think?

EDIT to add
http://current.com/items/90415750_restaurant-owners-plea-fails-to-stop-tennessees-guns-in-bars-law.htm

Why are the restaurant owners who serve alcohol pleading to have that bill overturned?

You go there to sit and let people see the little lump in the shoulder holster?

That would be a violation of concealment.

Why does anyone go to a bar?

Let me see.. hmmmmm why go to a bar? What is in a bar that anyone would want to go to?

Alcohol you think?

Is the concept of "designated driver" completely foreign to you?

Are you utterly unable to imagine a non-drinking person going to a bar or restaurant for food, or for social contact?

Why carry concealed to a bar?

And nobody is going to force you to go to a bar where they are allowed.

Why are you against a small expansion of personal freedom?

What are you afraid of? Your whole schtick here seems to be based on an assumption that people who legally carry concealed weapons are inclined to break laws. People who do that are already breaking laws, so the change in the law won't make any difference.

You do know that 'Congressional Quarterly' has nothing to do with Congress, right?

http://www.cqpress.com/about/company-history.html


If you want to roll your own numbers, here's the _real_ source..

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_05.html

Now, depending on how you weight the different rates (and violent crime is already an aggregate) I'd rate TN lower than 6th

(rates per 100k)

Worst states for murder
DC 31.4
PR 20.4
LA 11.9
MD 8.8
MS 8.1
MO 7.7
AL 7.6
NM 7.2
SC 6.8
GA 6.6
TN 6.6

Worst states for violent crime
DC 1,438
SC 730
NV 725
TN 722
DE 703
FL 689
LA 656
AK 651.9
NM 650
MD 628

Worst states for forcible rape
AK 64.3
NM 57.4
SD 53.7
AR 48.9
MI 45
CO 42.5
KS 42.5
NV 42.4
DE 41.9
OK 40.2
TN is #20

Worst states for aggravated assault
DC 626.4
SC 539.1
TN 508.9
AK 489.6
LA 480.4
NM 475.9
FL 452
DE 444.4
NV 426.9
OK 379.5

Worst states for robbery
DC 748.5
NV 248.9
MD 234.4
DE 210.5
FL 197.9
CA 188.8
IL 186.4
GA 179.2
TN 173.8
NY 163
OH 163

Worst states for burglary
NC 1,210
AR 1,180
NM 1,094
AL 1,081
TN 1,046
GA 1,039
FL 1,028
SC 1,026
LA 982
OK 963

Worst states for motor vehicle theft
DC 1,092.40
NV 611.6
AZ 572.6
CA 523.8
MD 449.7
WA 432.6
GA 409.1
NM 403.4
HI 398.5
SC 394
(TN is at #17)

visit one summer. One evening we decided to go for a walk in the park across the street. When we got back we were scolded severely my both grandparents and neighbors because "you don't go over there after a certain hour". Sure enough after they pointed it out we noticed circling helicopters (police) and no one outside after dark. They said that people were mugged, raped, stabbed over there regularly. This was WELL before any of the "new" guns laws where on the books. I guess my point is no matter where you go you are only feel as "safe" as you want to feel.

A majority of states allow individuals licensed by the state to carry a weapon to carry in restaurants. Big fricking deal. Vermont, however, requires no license whatsoever to do so.

I don't know how many people around me are carrying -the weapon is concealed. There has never been any trouble any where I have been in the state. You seem confused. People who carry are not dying for a shoot out. Concealed carry in Texas was supposed to bring old west violence. It did not.

but would you really feel as safe if there was an incident where someone was shot in one of the restaurants you frequent? So far there's been peace, but sometimes fights break out or people get drunk and mean and where there could have been a fist fight it turns out to be a gun going off and someone getting dead instead of just a black eye.

My point is, what's the need of a gun in a restaurant in the first place? And doesn't it create more of a chance of something dangerous happening by flirting with it? Do the owners now feel they must carry a gun just in case someone gets pissed off at the service?

And as a waitress in my youth let me tell you that no matter how good you are someone is going to get pissed off at the service. Or at the food. Or at having to wait for a table. Especially if they're drunk

where someone was shot in one of the restaurants you frequent?" A resounding yes! See the response of the people who survived the shooting in the Killeen Texas Luby's Cafeteria before concealed carry was legal.

"So far there's been peace, but sometimes fights break out or people get drunk and mean and where there could have been a fist fight it turns out to be a gun going off and someone getting dead instead of just a black eye." As you admit, it has not happened yet with a licensed carrier.

"My point is, what's the need of a gun in a restaurant in the first place? And doesn't it create more of a chance of something dangerous happening by flirting with it?" I do not se how a trained and licensed carrier would be more of a danger by "flirting with it" - what ever that means.

" Do the owners now feel they must carry a gun just in case someone gets pissed off at the service?" I have no idea what that means. Are the "owners" the people who own the restaurant? Never heard of anyone who went ballistic over slow service.

" And as a waitress in my youth let me tell you that no matter how good you are someone is going to get pissed off at the service. Or at the food. Or at having to wait for a table. Especially if they're drunk " So how many shot the place up? Couple of eating places and watering holes in my family and it never happened to us. Had some people who complained, but no shooters.

So what is your point? That if I didn't get shot where no guns were allowed, then my argument about someone getting shot when guns are allowed is no good?

Some people will say and argue anything whether true or not to justify their views. My questions are legitimate, and you're not answering them. As a waitress having to deal with a irate and drunk customer who might be carrying a concealed gun I would fear for my life. Is that just too stupid for you? Do you think I need to grow a spine, or do you think I should carry a gun to protect myself?

I think the whole scenario would justify not allowing guns in restaurants. It's not rocket science nor does it take your right to have a gun away.

"That if I didn't get shot where no guns were allowed, then my argument about someone getting shot when guns are allowed is no good?" I have read that tortured sentence three times and I think my answer is yes.

"No one carried guns when I worked as a waitress, concealed or not" If they carried concealed, how do you know that no one carried guns?

I eat out frequently and often legally carry a concealed weapon. Many people in Texas legally carry concealed weapons. When CHL passed, there were predictions of the wild west with shootouts every where. It did not happen. "Some people will say and argue anything whether true or not to justify their views." Check the stats provided by the Texas Department of Public Safety and you will see that food establishments are not the streets of Dodge City. It is not the people who have a CHL permit that I worry about, It is the guy who carries illegally.

"As a waitress having to deal with a irate and drunk customer who might be carrying a concealed gun I would fear for my life." I am sorry you have had such terrible experiences and that it resulted is such a severe case of hoplphobia. Neither I nor my family ever had a violent experience while working in a restaurant.

I am pretty sure you do not know any CHL holders. To get a CHL you have to take a training course from a state licensed trainer. The first part of the training is legal aspects of concealed carry. That includes the fact that you will loose your license for drunkeness, disorderly conduct or DUI. The second part of the trainging is non-violent resolution of conflict. All Texas CHL holders are trained and have submitted to a background check. These are responsible people. The people I worry about are those who carry illegally.

"Do you think I need to grow a spine, or do you think I should carry a gun to protect myself?" I can't advise you on growing a spine. I do think you should inform yourself on what has happened where concealed carry is allowed. Do I think you should carry a gun to protect yourself? That is up to you. (I do wonder how you would conceal the weaapon in the typical waitress uniform).

"I think the whole scenario would justify not allowing guns in restaurants. It's not rocket science nor does it take your right to have a gun away." We disagree on the scenario. True it is not rocket science. It only requires a rational analysis of the experience of states where CHL is allowed. To prohibit legal carry does take my right to have a gun away.

Or to a church or library? Is teh bad guyz holding people up in thoze places now? Are masked gunslingers waiting outside these places to hold everyone up?

Isn't there a sense that there are places for guns and places where they aren't necessary? Or is the comfort of the concealed weapon that important in public places where children are?

How many gunfights are there in restaurants?

with alcohol.. Even the restaurant owners in Tennessee are asking this to be overturned to avoid incidents.

http://current.com/items/90415750_restaurant-owners-plea-fails-to-stop-tennessees-guns-in-bars-law.htm.

The new state law permitting gun carry permit holders to bring firearms into Tennessee bars and restaurants goes into effect at midnight Monday, after a group of restaurateurs failed to convince a judge to stop it. However, another hearing on the issue has been granted.

Monday afternoon, Randy Rayburn, owner of Sunset Grill, Cabana and Midtown Cafe, asked Davidson County Chancellor Claudia Bonnyman for an injunction against the law, which was vetoed by Gov. Phil Bredesen but affirmed by the Legislature in a veto override. Rayburn contends the new law, which allows carry permit holders to bring handguns into places that serve alcohol, puts his customers and employees at risk.

:hi:

did legislatively what Tennessee courts ruled years ago--no pratical change.

You've probably sat to people with CCW many times. No bloodbaths right? Hell, I've carried in restaurants before. I managed to get through the soup and sandwiches without shooting someone.

What is the purpose?

I think for most people it's the in-between places rather than the restaurant. Parking lots/garages, etc. I don't carry everyday but when I feel I need to or would like to. If I'm going to a restaurant or area where I feel the need to carry, I do. The purpose of course, is self-defense. Simple, really.

Back to my question, why are you scared? There really is no reason to be. Where are the bloodbaths in restaurants because of CCW? Where are the incredible rates of murders and accidents because of CWW? They're not there. You're more at risk on the drive to the restaurant because of drunk drivers and road accidents.

I have seen a number of posts in here, asking me why I am nervous about people carrying a concealed weapon in a restaurant or a bar..

But none will answer .. Why does anyone carry a concealed weapon in a restaurant or a bar?

Sorry if that offends some, but I think it is pretty clear. I am not "afraid" of being near someone carrying a concealed weapon. I just think it is unhealthy to have a fear (for most people, who really don't need it). It reminds me to much of what I saw in fundamentalist Christian circles when I was less wise and thought they had something special, fear and paranoia was built into their minds.

I know some won't like to hear that.

in this thread..It is post 121.. :hi:

I was commenting on those who feel a need to carry concealed when they have no real personal threat to their person.

Even in states where they are relatively easy to get, like Texas; and among the few who choose to get permits their behavior is exemplary.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/ConvictionRatesReport2007.pdf

Those are the facts.

Since a large majority of people apparently AGREE with you that they don't have a valid need to get a concealed weapons permit, how about showing a little respect for the personal decisions of the few who do? Surely some of them have legitimate reasons for arming themselves, no matter whose standards you apply.

They are aware of the moral responsibility of what they are doing. Being fearful of them because of your own personal prejudices is neither rational nor reasonable.

Same reason I have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen and office; smoke detectors in every bedroom; a first aid kit and road flares in my truck; a tornado survival kit in my pantry (I live in TX); a hurricane kit when I lived in FL; a blanket, food, and water in my car when I lived in snow country; band-aids and ibuprofen in my desk at work; a rescue disc in my laptop bag- I plan on being prepared, whatever the emergency.

At 2:30 am when I'm walking down the street to get to my truck because I couldn't park close to the bar to see my favorite band, I want to be prepared. It's not so much as the bar itself where I could see needing to carry concealed, but on the way to/from.

does not mean your safer.

The type of person that is carrying that gun is what matters.

- as all but 11 states allow for conceal carry in restaurants. 2 of the 11 allow open carry. Only 9 allow no carry in restaurants at all. You've been around guns all along but you didn't know it as they were concealed. As far as hurting tourism = not a chance. Link to state restaurant carry info: http://opencarry.org/restaurant.html

These states include California and Hawaii so I think we can put away any notion that tourism will be impacted by this. ESPECIALLY in Nashville!

Why is it not surprising that there is no answer to your question?

I think the answer is "because they can"? Or "because they want to prove to others they can"?

Their reasons are personal, and it doesn't put you in any danger.

- as I have a military friend who continues to carry his weapon as he literally slept with it while on tour and feels incomplete without it. I would think that people who are unfamiliar with an area, tourist, etc., might carry for safety/security as they know they are conspicuous as an "outsider" and wish to avoid being targeted. Police might carry in a restaurant while not on duty as they could be a target simply due to their profession. And, yes, there are those that carry just because they can.

are entering a facility where there is a ban in place such as a hospital or courtroom.

So unless you avoid all dining out in your home state as well, this is just typical hypocrisy of the xenophobe. Iowa has concealed carry, but you avoid TN. Sounds like it is about people, not gun laws, and prejudice, not safety concerns.

law as your own state. Why not call out Iowa, a place where you help make the law? Why the specific criticism of one state out of many, including your own, that have the exact same law?
I'm not even commenting on the law itself, simply on the fact that you are calling out others for being what you yourself are. State wise. Iowa and TN have the same laws. You call out the other state, but not your own.
Why do you do that? What about Iowa? What actions are you taking to change the law in your state, I assume you must be active in that area, having such strong feelings about TN? Or is it just words about 'them' that you love so much? What are you doing to make change in Iowa? Nothing?

- You mention Iowa but it's only one of 39 states with conceal carry in restaurants. I'm not getting your connection.

Therefore, it is automatically prejudged as deficient.

- The Big Mixed-Up Jig-Saw Puzzle Map of the United States of America??? ;)

I wouldn't go into a bar where anyone could pull a gun on another person if they are drunk. That is asking for allot of problems. I think some owners are banning them in their bars. I live in Tn and I don't go out much to dinner. I don't believe in guns.

Read up on the subject.

...I have a good idea who will be carrying concealed firearms: the far-right lunatics who are exactly the last people you'd want to have guns...because they're more likely to use those guns, indiscriminately.

We're that much less safe for allowing gun-nuts to have their surrogate penises with them, 24/7.

Applicants have to pass a state-approved handgun safety course, pay a non-refundable $115 fee, and pass a criminal background check. The permit is good for four years. The renewal fee is $50.

Here's a link to the state's FAQ page on the subject. Please explain why you think it doesn't prevent the "wrong" people from getting permits.

http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgun/handgunfaqs.htm

While you're at it, how about producing some statistical evidence that the state's permit process is actually harmful to public safety?

instead of scrambled. Then they will have to re-think their stupidity.

http://opencarry.org/restaurant.html


Do you know of a news story of a person with a concealed carry permit shooting a server over their food?

..I won't go to TN on purpose anyway, but there are far scary places in the country than there for sure...

:puke:

a guy sat right next to me at a cafe and lit up. Then I noticed ashtrays at every table.

Got the food to go...

I see as MUCH more of a problem than guns in restaurants. The bill was presented by right-wing NRA supporters to try and get the democrats to vote against it so they could run against them on the grounds that "democrats want to take your guns away" lie... I am sometimes embarrassed to live in TN.

C'mon down! We need the revenue.