Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The Public Option Depends on CONFERENCE

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:19 PM
Original message
The Public Option Depends on CONFERENCE
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 08:17 PM by liberalpragmatist
I admit that I watched the collective freakout over the President's "backing away" from the public option with some confusion. Though some are dismissing it as spin, it really did not seem as though they were saying anything new. Obama has repeatedly refused to draw a line in the sand over the public option, and Sebelius has said before that they will "consider" Kent Conrad's "co-op" proposal.

Whether it's a good idea or not to be noncommittal is another issue entirely. Personally, I think they should draw a line in the sand over the public option, or at least be stronger in their advocacy. But I can see the other side of the argument. And that may simply be that the administration does not want to kill the bill and is just trying to get something first, out of the Finance committee and second, out of the Senate.

It is very clear that it is going to be very difficult for the Senate to pass a bill with a public option. According to DFA, only 37 senators are on record in support. The Republicans are unanimously opposed, and several Democrats have expressed hostility to it, including Blanche Lincoln, Kent Conrad, and Ben Nelson. Joe Lieberman has outright opposed it. Will it be Obama's fault if they defeat a public option in the Senate? In part - the bully pulpit is not insignificant. But let's also face the fact that senators are often, frankly, egotistical brats, who don't like to be pushed around and often like expressly to defy their leaders. (For some reason, Senate Democrats are notorious at this, far worse than their Republican cohorts, who are willing to vote for what their president pushes, lockstep; we can see both their successes - getting Bush's domestic and foreign policy agendas passed - and its failures - the fact they got... Bush's domestic and foreign policy agendas passed.) While people often cite Lyndon Johnson as an example of a president who knew how to bully the Senate, keep in mind he had over 70+ senators on his side, including liberal Republicans, and even he didn't try to attain universal coverage, settling for Medicare and Medicaid.

While some argue that the Senate should pass a bill through the reconciliation process, any bill sent through reconciliation would likely not include a public option, as the reconciliation process depends on the Senate parliamentarian's judgment and cannot usually be used to create new programs.

What does this mean? I think the odds are very high that the Senate will not pass a bill with a public option. However, it looks as though the House likely will include a public option. If the White House is truly committed to a public option, then conference committee is where pressure would - and should - be applied. If the bill coming out of conference includes a public option AND passes the House, it becomes very difficult for the Senate to reject it. Bills coming out of conference cannot be amended. They are not subject to the normal rules of debate. While they can be filibustered, it is difficult to do so for the very reason that they cannot be amended, meaning that ultimately they have to come down to an up-or-down vote. And do Evan Bayh and Kent Conrad really want to go down in history for killing universal health care? Especially since no universal health care bill has ever passed the House and all that would stand in the way of universal coverage would be a handful of conservative Democratic senators? (For more explanation on the conference process, click here.)

What's the evidence that the administration is just trying to get to conference? There are a few indications. In a conference call with liberal bloggers about a month back, President Obama himself made clear that conference is where the Administration plans to apply major pressure:

The House bills and the Senate bills will not be identical. We know this. The politics are different, because the makeup of the Senate and the House are different and they operate on different rules. I am not interested in making the best the enemy of the good. There will be a conference committee where the House and Senate bills will be reconciled, and that will be a tough, lengthy and serious negotiation process.

I am less interested in making sure there's a litmus test of perfection on every committee than I am in going ahead and getting a bill off the floor of the House and off the floor of the Senate. Eighty percent of those two bills will overlap. There's going to be 20 percent that will be different in terms of how it will be funded, its approach to the public plan, its pay-or-play provisions. We shouldn't automatically assume that if any of the bills coming out of the committees don't meet our test, that there is a betrayal or failure. I think it's an honest process of trying to reconcile a lot of different interests in a very big bill.

Conference is where these differences will get ironed out. And that's where my bottom lines will remain: Does this bill cover all Americans? Does it drive down costs both in the public sector and the private sector over the long-term. Does it improve quality? Does it emphasize prevention and wellness? Does it have a serious package of insurance reforms so people aren't losing health care over a preexisting condition? Does it have a serious public option in place? Those are the kind of benchmarks I'll be using. But I'm not assuming either the House and Senate bills will match up perfectly with where I want to end up. But I am going to be insisting we get something done.


Moreover, Rahm Emanuel in the NYT seemed to acknowledge that they expect both that the Senate will not include a public option and that the House cannot support a bill without a public option:

“We have heard from both chambers that the House sees a public plan as essential for the final product, and the Senate believes it cannot pass it as constructed and a co-op is what they can do,” Mr. Emanuel said. "We are cognizant of that fact.” (Link.)


Now, does that mean people should simply role over and have faith in Obama to do push a public option in conference? I'm a defender of his, but I'd still say no. Ultimately, if we get to the point where a public option depends on the conference committee - and that looks very likely right now - it becomes a matter of which House of Congress is willing to blink first. And the calculations of the conference committee negotiators will hinge on which body is more likely to do so. That in turn will depend on the ground and the general mood. If progressives push hard for the public option, urging supporters in Congress to not support a final bill without it and making the White House know that they will not consider health care reform without a public option to be true reform, then the incentives shift such that conference will be more likely to support a public option. If, however, public option advocates lay down their guard, liberals in the House may signal they'll support reform without a public option, and conservative Senate Democrats will think they can oppose it with impunity, then it's unlikely the conference committee will include a public option.

And let's face it: there's a reason liberals want this. Many health policy analysts are correct in saying that, as structured in the House and HELP committee bills, the public option really isn't going to be that important at the outset (meaning that Obama's statement that it is only a "small part" of the bill is quite true, as a literal matter). It will have to be self-supporting, and will be limited to the exchange, which will itself be limited to only the self-employed and those employed by small businesses. It won't have significant market power to drive down costs. But I think it's obvious why liberals still want it. It's far easier to expand programs than create new ones, and by establishing a "beachhead" public option (not just a carved out one for the poor and the elderly, ala Medicaid and Medicare), it can be expanded to the whole population, such that we could eventually get a de facto single-payer system or at least a mixed system with significant economies of scale associated with a single-payer system.

So by all means, fight for a public option. But be aware of the legislative process, and don't get discouraged if the Senate won't pass a bill with a public option in their first try. If the environment favors a public option, then a public option coming out of conference will be very difficult to stop.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rec.
For the sanity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Rec for good analysis nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. The conference committee is where the real work will be done.
Instead of arguing about nonesense we should be focusing on advocating for the best bill we can get to come out of conference. This is really too important for us to screw up or be distracted on. I have no doubt we will get a public option but how good that option is and how effective it will be is the real question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. You have given me my official argument on this issue. Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ezra Klein and others have been saying this for weeks.
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 07:28 PM by BlooInBloo
EDIT: Oh - that's what your link is. :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is a very good analysis, and I agree completely.
BUT we should still gnash our teeth at the Blue Dogs, the President, and anyone that stands in the way of a public option because, as you say, it is the constant application of pressure that may win the day.

I know the Senate is a compromised body of corporatists and we will not get a public option out of their dusty asses. But that does NOT mean we will accept capitulation from those who supposedly support the public option. Everyone goes under the microscope until this is passed.

And if it comes out of reconciliation without a public option, then we need to draw out the long knives. No party with this much of an advantage can screw up this badly without either being complicit or infiltrated. The tent should not be so big on the right that we cannot get anything done....it is self-defeating and sure to bring the Republicans back to power.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R.
Every DU'er throwing their hands in the air wailing "All is lost!" should read this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Stimulus Bill depended on Conference and look at what happened.

Three Senate Republicans wrote the final stimulus bill which came out of the conference. It gutted the most important job creating provisions of the House bill.

This could very well happen again. Except this time it will be conservative Democratic Senators who tear out any House public option
that goes to conference.

And how many Republicans in the House and Senate will vote for a conference bill that adopts the badly weakened House public option? Zero.

And how many Republicans in the House and Senate will vote for a conference bill with no public option. Zero.

Now if the House and Senate due to pressure from the Obama administration (using Rahm Emanuel's much publicized sharp elbows) adopts a conference bill with a strong public option component, the House will vote for the bill and the Senate will approve the bill with at least 50 votes which is all that we need.

What are your views on the above scenario?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Your last scenario is what I'm hoping will happen...
... and what we should push for.

The stimulus bill was a slightly different situation because it needed 60 votes to pass the Senate even after filibuster due to PayGo rules (legislation that increases the deficit needs 60 votes to pass, not 50).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. very valuable thread - - -bookmarkd to quell future maelstroms. . n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. I have never added a thread to my journal.......
.... until now!!! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
downeyr Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. I agree.
This is a great post! Thanks for putting this much effort into it! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
13. It does makes sense
:think:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. If it is "far easier to expand programs than create new ones"
expand medicare now. Single payer is the overall goal of public option anyway, so go directly to it. Plus it would be easier to explain medicare to the public. As many have pointed out, there is no argument against medicare because it already exists. Not so with public option.

Getting to single payer through public option doesn't make any sense. Public option is an unnecessary stage. Especially a public option that is small and doesn't kick in until 2013. Plus there is the risk that public option will be frozen in place and there will be no expansion of it.

As for Obama's argument that it would be difficult to switch over to a single payer system, phase it in gradually, as many have suggested. John Conyer's bill contemplates a 15-year phase-in. It could be done by gradually lowering the qualifying age, or on some other basis.

Obama is trying to reinvent the wheel. Making something simple difficult. And only God knows why.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Wisconsin fell for that argument 10 years ago when they were convinced
to allow HMO's. They were promised expansion that never happened.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. Great analysis
You did a wonderful job explaining how this could work. I hope as many people as possible read this and see in it a reason for at least guarded optimism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. "Obama has repeatedly refused to draw a line in the sand over the public option," but-
Rachel Maddow showed a videoclip of him saying that any Health Care Reform bill he signed must include public option. Or was that single-payer?

She says Democratic lawmakers are afraid. Over the weekend Siebel Edmonds said in a sworn deposition that some members of congress were being blackmailed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. Excellent post
Great synopsis of what's likely going to happen. I hope everybody here reads this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
andym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. Brilliant and astute political analysis
Are you in politics? The quality of this OP far exceeds most at DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thanks and nope.
I work as a research assistant on a public health study. And I'm far from Washington. Although I'll admit that I would like to move into policy and would love to move to DC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. I don't have time to read the whole thing now, but I look forward to doing it later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. There are more than 43 senators on records as supporting
a public option according to Dean and 538.com. To that list Dean added Warner, Wyden, Snowe, Carper and Testor as probable and Kohl, Landreau and Byrd (if he is healthy enough) and likely to go along with a push from Biden.

In addition Lieberman has indicated he would vote for closure even if he didn't vote for the bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. That's good
I was simply going by the list on DFA's website. But great if we have more on record. That increases the odds that a conference bill with a public option will pass and also increases the odds (low they may be) that the Senate will include a public option in their initial bill too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC