Anyone listening to Rachel?

I wouldn't advise it unless you want to be bummed out. She laid it out pretty well, and it was disturbing. I want to be optimistic, but I can't argue with her facts. Very depressing.

healthcare from the beginning for no good reason, starting with ruling out single payer. Then Baucus sets up a committee with 50/50 Dem and Repug members on healthcare, which was not required and was more compromise. Then of course, all the latest backtracking on even the public option. Matt Talibi(sp) was on and agreed, saying it looks like we gave up the public option for no good reason.

it's called being bought by the insurance industry

Topic requires a strong stomach.

She's talking like the White House has said that they no longer support the public option.

Dr. Maddow is laying out that (at least this run) health care reform is going to fail (as far as the US public goes) this time round.

I really hope she is wrong...but her history is disturbingly accurate. =<[br />
However, this should be a lesson on how to run things differently and soon.

We must force congress to act again after the elections, to force SINGLE PAYER through like a ram rod. to hell with cooperating, to hell with the gop, and bully the ever-living fuck out of the blue puppies.

I know.. next time...I use that term to much irl, but it may be how we have to look at this if/when reform goes down in 4 months.

We must impress on OUR reps - ESPECIALLY the ones re-up for the senate - that compromise is NOT AN OPTION, and that FULL and COMPREHENSIVE CARE is mandatory.

Preferably with universal health care.

The Admin can no longer be considered reliable on the public option.

Where we have needed LEADERSHIP, they have given us incoherence, confusion, and the image of a sell-out.

Time to act for ourselves as citizens and keep the pressure on.

We have no leadership from the president on the public option.

far less depressive and more positive in his outcome prediction. I don't know which to believe- would prefer of course, to go with Howard Dean and believe that he really is someone "in the know". With that said. Rachel is brilliant as is Matt Taibi as an investigative reporter so it's hard to know which is more on target.

I think it's time for more wine. Bottom line either way, is we are in for a long, hard fight.

and I am confused as well. But I would rather err on the side of thinking things are about to go very badly (since we still have time to fight), than be lulled into a false security.

him all the way up to the convention floor? Neither of these happened but these were her predictions all through the campaign.

Matt Taibbi is also a Debbie Downer.

It is just who they are and what they do - so knowing it going in gives you some perspective re how serious to take "the sky is falling" cries.

That seems so long ago now, LOL. Well, let's hope she's wrong this time too.

in letting our elected officials (including our Pres.) know that a "bipartisan compromise" is not acceptable under any circumstances.

Start here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

then thank the good folk here

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/activities/181

it will serve a purpose.

left. She's caught the Democratic Downer Syndrome... We're all dooommmmeeeddddd May as well bare our throats to the republicans now to save them time....

Rachel is great except for that one thing (self-admitted on her part-true, but once you are aware of it, you need to address it)

Rachel,she's human just like everyone else

glass half-empty. She said the WH said "no public option" which is not what they said. She also did not mention any of the clarification made in regards to Sebelius' comments. When she gets down on something, it's pretty much a one-way street.

Lots of time to go in this thing, and none of us really know what's going to happen. Until something is final, I'm holding out on getting down on the situation. Too many times over the past couple years Obama was counted out only to come back stronger than ever.

Like Howard Dean expressed on KO earlier, I'm going to take the optimist view on the situation and say we will get a public option on Obama's desk before the end of the year.

She needs to be talked down way too often

Panthers playing the Giants right now.

:thumbsup:

she leans negative.

Remember when she was 100% sure that Hillary would take the nomination all the way to the convention, and stage a floor fight? Or all the times during the general election that she crawled up Obama backside for being "weak"? I'm glad, at least that she finally dropped the "talk me down" shtick.

option opposition. Curious about parry and thrust strategy for getting what we want, begging us for current public option proposal with firewall (and something we could build on).

That's one reason I found it depressing.

:shrug:

This country is lost.

about how Baucus runs his committee, that's not a compromise that is having something dictated to you from someone you had no way to get into your pocket. How can she honestly declare this a concession? Who had a choice? You can't give this committee gable to someone who isn't party mainstream that works well with others and not expect problems. Baucus has also been very dishonest since he proclaimed support for exactly (or better) what we are advocating.

I know many want to believe that you can start demanding single payer despite all parties knowing full well that you have no shot in hell of getting 50 votes for it.

What planet do you people live on? The belief in the bluff where the other guy has a better handle on your hand than you do is a wild ability to suspend disbelief. How many times have you been told that it will be tooth and nail to get any health care bill passed, especially one with a public component?

Disappointment? This is reality and this America. We're chock full of idiots, the greedy, crooks, sellouts, and chickenshit assholes. No shit you're going to be very disappointed when you dig for gold in a copper mine. The copper is hard as hell to get at without all the shrieking about not digging for gold in a mine where none is.

Starting out in a fantasy is usually cause for disappointment.

Everyday she was depressed and trying to have someone "talk her down."

In this situation though... I don't really know how to interpret it.

a look at Maher's show last night. The President is on track and I bet you all my money, he will get public option to go through. Why aren't the democrats supporting the President on Health Care Reform?

...for holding the administration's feet to the fire to keep them honest, but I feel like we really don't need this defeatist attitude coming from "one of our own" right now. Also, Olbermann seems to be on the "Obama screwed us" table right now, as well--at least Howard Dean was there to put some balance on Keith's show. What Dean said brought me back from the depths.

I was disappointed in both of them. They allowed that fucker Armey and Coburn get away with condescending remarks and outright lies. As usual Gregory gave the Repukes the final word and allowed them to speak uninterrupted. I was waiting on either Rachel or Tom to interrupt and fight back. And they were just as polite and milquetoast as ever.

I was very disappointed with Rachel. She does a great job on her show, but she's worthless in a debate with these Repukes who actually sound convincing if you're one of these misinformed, uncritical people watching.

We have to do a better job and be more forceful and more convincing when debating these fools.

Let's take a page from Congressman Anthony Weiner. He rocks! He's forceful! He's convincing!