Do the Democrats and President Obama understand what will happen if public option isn't passed?

Look at the huge decrease in enthusiasm on this forum at the mere hint of dropping the public option. Now magnify that by 1000 if (God forbid) a bill is actually passed with no public option.

Do the Dems really think they can win in 2010 and 2012 with their base so depressed? Are the corporate $ really that much more important than votes? Does the President plan to cobble together a Right/Centrist coalition to ride through 2012?

I just don't understand these folks sometimes. Hey, good luck to you guys getting re-elected, but you'll have to count on the GOP sucking rather than actual support.

They think that their voters will lay down forever while many of them forget that their election was assured
by the very worst president ever at the most intense moments of his unpopularity. The Republicans won't be
back as some clowns suggest. But the tepid faction of the Democratic Party will pay at the ballot box either
in primaries or through independents if a real bill fails to emerge. The Blue Dogs are first on the list and the Southern Democrats who continually betray their constituents will find real populists at their doors. It will happen because there is not the nerve, right now, to pass this bill. The death panel argument exists only because deaths due to rationed care argument was never made. We'll see how it turns out. Good point!

How can a victory to DENY Health Care to 18% of our pop be good? Its a bad,,,,The GOP will look like FOOLS and end up for the worse ....

We actually expect them to hold to their word, unlike the Republicans, that just go along with anything the party does.

People that are ethical demand a higher standard of their politicians, and the DLC can't handle that, so they court the Corporations, and must behave in a similar fashion to the Republicans.

It is this reason why we see such rigorous continuity in Governmetn despite have what appears to be two seperate ideological parties. It is an illusion.

The Progressives have been discarded, because we do not compulsively support crappy leaders.

a handful of far rightwing corporations 'counting' all our votes--in primaries and general elections--with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls. Because this IS the main problem.

Venezuela has even worse corpo/fascist media than we do. But they have an OPEN SOURCE code voting system--anyone may review the code by which the votes are tallied--and they additionally handcount a whopping 55% of the votes as a check on machine fraud. Do you know what percentage of the vote is hand-counted here as a check on machine fraud? ZERO percent in half the states in the US, and a miserably inadequate 1% in the rest. This is THE difference between good leaders running the country and fascist fucks running the country. Venezuelans have universal, free medical care, and universal, free education through college--because their leaders care what their people think, and act in their peoples' interest. And the Faux News in Venezuela just rants on, with their multinational corporate predator rants, ignored by the voters. The Chavez government (including their majority in the National Assembly) has enjoyed consistently high approval ratings in the 60% range, comparable to their vote totals. They were elected, and they can prove it. And this means that they are truly, really, actually, in practice, answerable to the voters! They don't hold offices because they were vetted and approved by global corporate predators and war profiteers.

Why do we have one of the most non-transparent vote counting systems ever devised? WHY? The Forever War? Yes. Why else? Please ask yourself that question.

We've also had putrid money pollution of our political system for a long time, added to our corpo/fascist press. Both things are important. Both things matter. But nothing matters more, nothing is more undemocratic, and nothing creates more of a blockade to serious reform than 'TRADE SECRET' vote 'counting.'

Sad to say
I think its a safe bet.

That's why Barack is in the White House.

--assuming it gets passed.

DU is a very tiny drop in a very large bucket.

We do not matter much.

I wouldn't give a dime to any candidate that does not vote for public option. Nada, zilch, nil!

So not only are we less enthused about the party...the repubs are winning the support and confidence of the poeple. Its going to be a nightmare in 2010/12 ... that is, unless democrats start growing balls. Not sure when the last time that happened though (FDR?)

very point. I told them they are alienating the very people who worked their butts off to get them elected in the first place. The very people who were out there knocking on doors, making phone calls, etc. are the very people who will be most angered if we do not end up with a strong public option.

They need US and they'd better wake up and realize that before it's too late.

Very rarely is this bored FIRED UP ;) and unified behind one cause ..... hopefully all of this anger is translating into phone calls to Congress. Not only that, but what are you constantly hearing on the news? "Public option ......... public option ........ public option ...... what's a public option? we have an expert here to explain."

What were you hearing last week? "Obama's gonna kill grandma!!"

Now do you get it? ;)

Worry not, the man KNOWS what he is doing.

I believe that President Obama is sincerely compassionate and I know he's very intelligent. He must be aware that if this fails, a large portion of his supporter base, those of us who want real change, will fall away into apathy. There's no way he can't know it. If he doesn't finally bring out the big stick (that's really the only language conservatives understand and respond to) we're screwed. The GOP is seriously wounded right now, but they're shrewd enough to know that if they succeed in sinking this, they'll have plenty of firepower come 2010 to put the blame squarely on the Democrats. And in the end, it will be the Democrats fault. The fecklessness of our representatives makes me ill sometimes.

Because I'm voting against my interest, in a way, when I vote Democratic. It would be better for me financially, if Repubs were to stay in power. The ONLY reason I vote Democratic is for democratic reasons, fairness reasons, for the better good of all of us, for the country, to make our society a better one, to provide health care for all, liberty...etc.

If the Dems don't have the guts to actually get their platform done, even when they're in total power...then what's the point? I'd be better off voting Republican, since the altruistic betterment of us all isn't gonna happen. In the latter sense, all I get is higher taxes and some silly compromise on altruistic dreams. I prefer lower taxes and unabashed "you're on your own, guys."