Ciny Sheehan is going to Martha's Vineyard to protest the presidents vacation

Her crowd is thinner, but otherwise her pitch is exactly the same

The news outlets are not covering it at all.

She got a lot of support here last August for her efforts in Crawford.
I wonder if she'll even be mentioned this Presidential vacation in the national press?

Will she be bringing her whip?

But since it was a warmonger with an R behind his name, anything that Cindy did was golden. Now that she's protesting a warmonger with a D behind his name, she is now seemingly deserving of ridicule and revilement at the hands of those who formerly supported her, hypocrites.

Even here.

The absolute end of her credibility was starting an impossible campaign against the Speaker of the House.

That was one bridge too far for her.

:wtf:

One does not send in an innocent who doesn't know how any of it is done.

She is also free to employ critical thinking in picking her fights, and it doesn't appear that she's used that option in this protest.

to her, though..if he's around.

people like Cindy who lost someone in the wars, or met with them and was dismissive or tactless.

amazing opportunity.

with the last guy.

The footage would probably be featured in an ad against him

wow.

so obama is just like bush? he started a war based on lies, and indeed, is a Holy War moron going after Gog in Iraq?

Or was he trying to get out of a horrible situation, so badly destabilized by Bush's invasion, that there was NO easy answer?

I was ONE of the first peace marchers after Bush's illegal war, so you can try to paint me as a war-monger as well, but it would not be accurate.

the false equivalence being made here is deeply offensive. Obama said back in a 2002 interview that he would have voted NAY on the pre-emptive strikes, had he been a senator at the time. that makes him LESS of a warmonger than almost all the other congresspeople who voted yay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po

And you call him a war monger?

Nothing like revisionism.

Leave 50-100,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely while doubling down on an illegal, immoral war in Afghanistan?

We shouldn't have gotten involved in either, we have no clear exit strategy from either one, and apparently, for the foreseeable future, we're not going to completely pull out of either war. Instead, the wars are going to continue to grind on, chewing up men and money for no good reason.

Yeah, warmonger fits.

sorry.

he is doing the best he can with the situation he inherited. an unstable, fucked up situation. contrary to popular belief, sometimes there are reasons for decisions like this.

That doesn't mean I like it. Or he likes it. Or anyone fucking likes it.

It sucks!

That's why we never should have gone in in the first place, because everyone with a brain knew this would happen! there is NO way to get out just because you know it's wrong. the lack of stability brought about by our invasion is incredibly dangerous to them, to us, to the world.

A warmonger is:
a person who encourages warlike ideas or advocates war

I've never heard him encourage or advocate war. IN fact, in situations where he has had control, he went the diplomatic route. wait and get more info route. like the whole georgia v russia thing, when mccain and barbie had us at war already with russia? those are war mongers.

You're pissed, I get it. but this is inaccurate and an undeserved slur.

you don't like how he's dealing with it. fine. but there are reasons. he didn't just wake up one day and decide to fucking attack someone for no reason, or defy the geneva convention, or pre-emptively invade people. and there is NOTHING about the guy and the way he handles foreign relations to back up "war monger".

Anger at the situation shouldn't blind us to the complexities of the situation. Everyone wants the war to be over. We all want to see Bush prosecuted. We all want the lives back of everyone who died for no fucking reason!

Obama isn't a warmonger. He can't wave a magic hope wand and fix the problem. He can't just pull out the troops now. Do you think he likes that? Come on.

I'm not happy that we're still at war, but I think that description is a bit of a stretch.

Yeah, I think warmonger fits.

He never claimed not doing a logical withdrawal out of Iraq. Did you forget the mess we left Pakistan in during the 80s with a complete withdrawal. He's trying to mitigate the mess that was done in the last 7 years in a period of 18 months. Don't you think we bare some damn responsibility in what we've done in Iraq and the total destablization we wrecked?! Obviously you just think we can fuck over a nation and when we see we've lost (even if it's a war no one wanted) we can just walk ou. It's not been good for our global standing to play that game. He's trying to find the best way and by either 2011 majority of our troops will be home and all out of Iraq.

As for Afghanistan----don't play dumb. He campaigned on Afghanistan. I fuckin' hated his plan on sending more troop into Afghanistan----however I'm not going to stand there and act like I didn't know that he was going to be doubling troops in that nation. And I get real fuckin' tired listening to people on this site complaining about Afghanistan when the man clearly pushed that plan through his candidacy.

good luck with that...

to her cause. She needs to find a better way to get her message across.

Funny joke.

wondering how much support for her is still lingering here.

did you then?

you ask a lot of loaded questions without commenting on the OP.

This is a discussion forum, I was thinking it worthy of discussion.
perhaps you disagree, you haven't said

I hope she doesn't get ignored or savaged in the press.

I do think her moment has passed.

on the self-destructive nature of the American Empire.

I don't see any self-destructive tendencies in the American people or nation.

:

Her actions are fucked up.

armed loons. At least she is working to push him in the right direction, and is no threat to anything other than pride.

local RW radio jackasses, and Republican politicians speaking, and it's a "non-partisan" event, covered by the media ...

nt

A really lllllllooooooonnnnnnggggggggg vacation.

If she wants to protest, why not the lying, piece of sh*t republicans!

that now continues to prosecute an illegal war, instead of a Republican one.

:shrug:

The courts threw them all out saying individual citizens don't have the right to sue the President over war.

Now she is protesting lying, piece of shit Democrats who are continuing, and expanding, these illegal, immoral wars.

What have you done lately? Oh, yeah, bitch about anti-war protesters. Classy:eyes:

opposed to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. On this, I agree with her.

the last time I checked, the Afganistan war was being escalated by our wonderful president Obama, A DEMOCRAT. you are obviously not too bright if this needs to be pointed out to you. :crazy:

It's hard to care.

In one of her previous meltdowns a few years ago she said she was no longer affiliated with the Democratic Party and blamed us for slavery.

She is consistent. I don't really agree with her, but it is not about who is in the WH to her.

She is protesting the wars. Because of her son. I am amused by those here who think it has to do with personalities. It is about principles, which are her own and no one else's. I doubt that anyone here asks permission of others, nor takes the pulse of the media before they speak their minds, so the double standard is cloying to me. Would I be going to join her? No, I'd not be doing that. But do I think I have any right at all to suggest she should not? No, I'd not be doing that either.
Blessed, it was once said, are the peacemakers.

It is her consistency that gives her credibility. It is the war not the party that she is protesting. I hope she continues.

I agree with her but wanted to agree with you about that consistency, that is an important point. That should say something honorable. Instead to many it takes her serious commitment to something she believes in and somehow discredits it. When people hated what the other side was doing and protested in some manner themselves then stop the protesting because it is "their side" that is now doing it, it discredits the entire movements past, current and future efforts. It makes it a ballgame, or an old Western with the bad guys and the good guys and it destroys critical thinking. It is easy to just flow with "the party" it is hard to go against it but consistent and that leads to credibility. Of course this issue floats around here based on if people like Cindy herself or not. She said some things that made people angry but that should not discredit her efforts IMO.

But I always wondered if she would have been if her son hadn't passed away. And a big, "No," came to mind. Just as a note Hagel was anti-war but was 100% Repub on everything else.

that really matters does it? I don't know how she felt before but the death of a son, or anyone you are close to, can be a catalyst don't you think? It does not really seem to be the same as the Hagel situation.

Which is different from her. She said so in several of her interviews that she was proud to send her son into the military and supported the war efforts. Until of course the unfortunate demise of her son, may he rest in peace.

I don't want anyone protesting anything while he's there.

Truly a courageous woman, with strong valid convictions. I'm thankful for all her contributions.
May she stay strong and healthy. Peace IN, Peace ON!

Not long ago, Cindy was a hero in these parts, but now she is our very own Jane Fonda.

needs to 'shut up' and 'let the President vacation in peace'.

to shut up? I don't see a lot of that at all. Of course it helps to make a point if we pretend that this is happening on a large scale, right.

Fuck that noise.

the war, Cindy does. He son was killed in Iraq. Bush wouldn't even acknowledge her presence. The press mocked her. Maybe Obama will treat her differently.

his family should have and certainly deserve a vacation.

eom

I deleted my post the THAT ONE. Epic FUCKING FAIL. Thanks for giving her the what not. Embarrassment is putting it lightly.

a vacation by President Obama.

I don't think very many people will take Sheehan seriously on this stunt, and properly so.

I'm sorry, but she looks like a damned fool doing this.

I have to admire that.

Bush broke records for taking the longest vacations of any President in history. He spent the entire month of August each year in Crawford. Obama is a workaholic trying to dig out of the ridiculous mess he inherited from Bush and should be allowed to take a vacation!!! That is the difference, and THAT is why Cindy is wrong.

supporters.

They oppose wars. Well, hot dog. Quite a few of the rest of us also oppose wars but the President of the United States has to manage the country's role on the world stage. Cindy Sheehan does not.

Despite what the Creationist nutbags believe, the world has been around for some time and so far no one -- not even the good-hearted Cindy Sheehn -- has found a way to stop wars. Now really, it would be just terrific if someone did. But so far no one has.

With one exception: If Sheehan could discover a way to build critical mass against U.S. military involvement in the middle east, that would be fine with me and then some. A small handful of folks protesting Obama's vacation on Martha's Vineyard Island is not going to affect that change.

the movement to build critical mass has to start somewhere. Maybe it will eventually be because of her and maybe not but she is out there doing what she thinks is right and in the past at great discomfort to her and those of us who joined her. This may not be the way but we will never know if someone is not willing to get out there and give their life to it.

:hi: old friend.

Sheehan's public citizenship and see no gains.

Bush's record-length vacations should certainly have been protested and she got some media coverage there, but there were not the numbers to affect change. Bush's motorcade drove literally right past her.

Obama has earned his vacation.

Sheehan also took on the Speaker of the House in a Congressional election and although she got some support from protest votes, she was easily defeated. That was a failed effort. That time and money and heart and mind might have been better applied elsewhere and elsehow.

I've met Cindy Sheehan. Her citizenship is impressive. Her political instincts could use some work.

And hi yourself. I hope you've slipped up to New York a time or two for some plays.


:hi:

off to pick up a load of hay. I will be back later. I like having this discussion.

The way I see it is that it does not matter a bit if it sees observable gains. I think it has shown some, a lot of people joined her who might not have been mobilized without her. I don't know but maybe and probably.

Is she protesting his vacation? Sure he deserves a vacation but her protests at Crawford did not stop Bush** from vacationing, in fact it did not seem to really affect him at all but it did draw a lot of interest to peace efforts. One way to look at it is that as long as our citizens are over fighting a war in a place that he sent them to it seems unseemly to vacation. I am not certain where I would draw the line on that if I was her. Sitting here I see both sides of it.

Again, about the election, it is not an effort that was wasted. Do you think she really meant to win? She was not successful for that reason but it again brought a lot of attention to her cause (her cause being one we are all interested in but have different manners of going about it). In that sense nothing was wasted, it was her thing. I just see no reason for people to bash her around just because she is not a Democrat mainly or because they themselves would not do what she is doing. When did being a Democrat become the only good thing to see in a person or for that matter when did being a Democrat make everything you do right no matter what it is? I guess this comes from my perspective since I am not a Democrat any longer.

I think a good deal of her personal reasons (this is my assumption only) is that she needed an outlet to make the death of her son somehow tolerable. She chose this and she has done exactly what she needed to do and it has helped I hope. I can't imagine living through something like that myself so how could I ever fault her? Politically? Who knows, I do not think that was her original intention. She has been guided by the success she had by drawing in the crowds of peaceniks like me and by others who have guided her, rightly or wrongly depending on your personal markers, hoping enough would join to make a difference.

:hi: no trips to NYC yet, how about you? My sons are not there yet but my youngest played at both Lincoln Center and Kennedy Center (Dizzy's) this summer and cut a CD that is being played all over the country and available on Amazon and other places (not trying to sell it but just bragging). He has had to put his move off to finish his composition degree so we are thinking January or shortly after. THEN the trips start! YAY!

Hope things are well with you and that you are pleased with the situation politically.

I think it's strong and true and admirable.

But I would not seek her out for politics. She does not have the instinct, IMO.

For what good she has done, I'm appreciative and hope that like Dennis Kucinich, she can bring people together who up to that point had never met. There's quite a bit of good in that.

Although I think what we're seeing in those instances, at least in part, is the Democratic grassroots impulse to work together as people, to be partners with each other in matters of the common good, to be the very kind of community organizers that Sarah Palin tried to warn the nation about!

We tend to like each other. We tend to listen better than the squawking Pukes. We tend to include each other, not despite significant differences but because of them, in a way the fundie nutbags have never conceived. Sheehan is good at this sort of thing.

In the address I heard her give at Purdue, she brought her bravery and withstood some rude and clumsy negative remarks from a handful of detractors in the audience. But by this point, she had both the bravery and also the experience, and really nothing any of the detractors had to say could throw her off-course. And in any case, the majority of the audience seemed predisposed toward her opposition to Bush, or in any case were willing to listen as she made her points.

Perhaps President Obama will go out and speak with her. I hope he does.

- - - -

When you do get to New York, ask your son to take you all down to the Village to Benny's Buritos. They are an ample portion and unbelievably good.

as there once were with her.

Lots to think about here....

And the hypocritical libruls don't support her anymore.

I think that's the troll's message.

That would get her air time...

the wars need to stop, regardless of who is captain of the ship, they are not doing one damn bit of good, and just an awful money pit!!!!

I don't blame you for this, though. :D

it goes with the territory

yesterday was not my best day.

just say it. stalking me from thread to thread is getting old.

My first post to you was a humorous comment in your 'optimist' thread, which led to a comment in your 'don't demonize Republicans' thread, which the 'optimist' thread was your comment on. This thread is one of about two dozen that drew me to comment today, and it is well known a Sheehan topic is likely to draw some comment from me.

Your complaint seems a bit odd, since you have in the 'optimist' thread accused me of 'knee jerk vicious opposition to law and order', and made no attempt to engage the rebuttal of that accusation. You are not required to, of course, but your silence interests me strangely. So does the general pattern of your posting recently: there is no coherence to it, no thread running through it to unify it into a pattern of political thought. This often is an indication of a simple desire to make trouble, whether the motive is a political or an apolitical one. There are people who just like to see the dancing flames....

"I think we're going to need another Timmy!"

I appreciate your frankness actually
I am way more moderate than the average DU'er which leads to some defensiveness.
I am something seldom see here
a conservative democrat.

I may have lashed out at you unfairly when I was under attack from what seemed like every side.

as far as some unifying theme to my politics, I've been looking for one myself for the last 40 years or so.
so if you glean one , do share it with me
I call em like I see 'em, without regard to ruffled feathers, or expected responses from a democrat.
my only barometer is whats sensible.
I am a special interest group of 1

It was like 1am when I made the post you referred to/ I haven't read your rebuttal
I will do it now
Peace

I couldn't find it anywhere else
nothing on google

I'd like to see a second source, but i haven't found one yet

Please?

I figure some peace is well deserved.

there are a couple of (illegal) wars going on right now. :(

Thank you Cindy! :loveya:

ONE WEEK as opposed to Bush's one MONTH....She really needs to get over it. I supported a lot of what she did, but gimme a break....I'll be even SHE takes a week's vacation now and then.

Cindy can't make it, she will be on vacation.

On the other hand, Obama did not start this war. Bush did.

Bush also took a lot more vacation time than Obama (well, then anyone). I know people tallied his vacation time compared to the time he worked, and it was massive. He took all of August 2001 off, IIRC (came out on the ranch and made some lame-assed time-delayed speech, but I can't remember the topic at the moment).

I support her continued anti-war efforts, but I do disagree with her trying to equate Obama and Bush.

a while back, ranting about Democrats being the party of slavery and the federal reserve.

Just plain nuts at this point.

However, the party has long been passed that and has in many instances fought for the righs of minorities. As a matter of fact, they've moved into the party of diversity while Republicans have been nothing more than racists.

Democrats for them.

Her own nutjob words:

I was a life-long Democrat only because the choices were limited. The Democrats are the party of slavery and were the party that started every war in the 20th Century except the other Bush debacle. The Federal Reserve, permanent federal (and unconstitutional) income taxes, Japanese Concentration Camps and, not one, but two atom bombs dropped on the innocent citizens of Japan were brought to us via the Democrats.

Sheehan is a lunatic who'd be at home in the John Birch Society.

Thank you for posting that. I really had no idea.

She has a right to protest, of course, but I don't support nuts.

It caused a few heads to explode here if I recall.

I've disagreed with how she's trying to accomplish things and with some of her goals but at least she walks the walk instead of being an internet commando who MIGHT attend a candlelight vigil or anti-war protest, depending on the weather and schedule, every now and then.

I love Cindy.

Even if he DOESN'T travel. As do we all. It makes no difference whether he's vacationing or working, whether he's a Democrat or Republican. Anyone who thinks President Obama should just be "left alone" should pause for a second and contemplate that. The First Amendment affords her that right.

If I wanted to protest the fact that he drank Bud Light at the party celebrating the end of Gatesgate, I'd be within my right to do it, no matter how it looked to President Obama's supporters.

He knew that it was a possibility when he decided to run for such high office.

Lastly, if anyone had earned the right to protest a sitting American President while there were wars going on that we really didn't need to be prosecuting, it's Cindy Sheehan.

Call her a media whore or whatever else you want. I call her an American Citizen, exercising her First Amendment right, and fuck anyone who thinks she's wrong for doing it.

The right to speak freely does not entail any right to be listened to attentively, let alone taken seriously.

That was never in doubt as far as I'm concerned.

I just feel like there's this unspoken criticism of her for protesting anything at all because it's well... Obama. President Obama is president 24/7. I don't care if he's vacationing or not. And I'm not going to abide by "but but but...BUSH!" crap. He'll be behind locked gates and my money says he'll arrive on the property in Marine One.

Anyone who wants to protest, wherever he goes, does so without any disparaging remarks from me. That's their right, and that's what's supposed to be welcome in a democracy, whether he's "our guy" or not.

I'm curious what you think Mr. Magistrate, about which is more likely on this thread: Does the majority like the fact that we're at war in two countries and disagree with her opinion and that she is wasting her time, or does the majority look down on her planned protest because it's "our guy"?

Many here are content with the scheduled withdrawl from Iraq, since it is at least moving in the right direction, even if not so speedily as they would like, and many here do not particularly oppose the engagement in Afghanistan. Most opposition to the invasion of Iraq was not purely 'anti-war' feeling, it was rather a view that it was a particular war that should not be fought, and was being fought very badly. Persons whose views incorporate some of those elements will not be supportive of protests, which they do not much agree with in any case, directed at a political leader they support and feel affection for. In the specific case of Sheehan, she began some while ago to focus her ire more on Democrats than on the Bush administration, and in the course of doing so delivered herself of truly amazing verbiage, which served to discredit her with most people who cast votes for Democratic candidates.

Almost everything . I think he is going to get us out of Iraq early. And maybe this effort in Afghanistan will work out ok but I have my doubts. I am willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt for a bit longer there, but I continue to respect those that protest these wars.

You silly grieving mother: Do you think it's easy serving Wall Street and the Pentagon 24/7? He needs some breathing space.

Best to wait a week. Maybe after he orders another air strike against Pakistan, you'll get his attention, and be invited in for tea.

These friggin activists...

allies elsewhere.

The Wars in the Middle East are GENOCIDE.

911 as an excuse was a SHAM and A LIE! That the wars continue over there is one of the most vile shameful things this country has done and that allows to continue!

For SHAME on DUers who find excuses for those wars or who say they fought for Peace when * was in office, but it's all good when the Obama administration does it!

WTF! Do any of you even know the meaning of PEACE?!!! :rant:


p.s You GO CIndy. Fight for Peace. Fight for other human beings to be able to live their lives in Peace.

climate change doesn't take a vacation

:eyes: