Early test.....if we got to 2012, and there was no public option AND no EFCA

And the generals had the Prez conned in to staying indefinitely in Iraq and Afghanistan, would there be ANY good reason to renominate this administration?

:rofl:

If we just renominate no matter what, that means we're giving up.

there is no option should the vampiric GOP return to office. We want this reform we fight for it, if we don't get it the constituents just didn't fight hard enough for it. Any issues we have with the WH we correct with our voting of congress members. But abandoning the President is no alternative for progress. Turning tail on President Obama is a one way ticket back the the middle ages. OUr biggest hurdle is congress and the senate specifically, but giving Barack the blame for that isn't fully justified. This is the peoples fight given the corporate hierarchy things work under, out goal is to get back to the top of that hierarchy. There are so many moving parts to why President Obama does what he does but the biggest moving part is the people out in front of him. The GOP are self destructing we don't need to follow them on that strategy.

Terry McAuliffe "The reasons we previously lost so many elections is because we didn't want it hard enough, and the other side did." Same applys with health reform, we made a miracle happen in 2008, no reason I can see we can't perform another. Metaphorically speaking.

If nothing else, it might make a huge difference how the second term went if, say, Barbara Lee won 800 delegates to the next convention.

Look a what happened to Carter.

He's a good man, but he knew he was doomed to lose as soon as the hostages were taken. No president could have survived that.

Hillary, for example, or Dr.Dean, it would be because he has failed to deliver the goods. Polls by Kos and ABC put his favorability among Democrats at 47% right now. If he persists in his courtship of blue dogs, republicans and corporate donors he may very well be primaried.

How very right wing I mean left wing of you.

What option do you have? Independents never win elections. So then you have another REPUBLICAN winning. And we know how disasterous they are. I strongly believe that Obama's administration can't be worse than Bush's.

n/t.

Palin, Gingrich, Bachman, Romney.... whoever the heck the GOP tries to foist upon us would be worse and I doubt anyone would win a primary challenge against Obama/Biden so yes, there would be a good reason to renominate them. However, I do think it to be an unfortunate result of our woeful two-party system (or maybe 1 and 1/3 party system would be more accurate). We don't have legitimate alternatives so I feel Obama/Biden to be pretty safe no matter what. Congress, on the other hand, is another story. The way things are going, I expect an Obama re-election but he will be saddled with GOP majorities just as Clinton was. Same shit - different President.

I want this administration to succeed. It goes without saying that if there were no public option in the healthcare plan and no EFCA at the end of the first term, though, that the administration would have to be considered a failure. I don't WANT that to happen, and I'm not being disloyal to ask these things.

lol

And YOU have never been so inherently superior to anyone else in your commitment or effort for the party to be entitled to your 'tude, dude. You haven't done anything that's that much more impressive than anyone else. You're on the same human level with the rest of us.

...are signing petitions and voting against a popular president, two things that any lazy person can do. If we don't get a public option or single-payer it will be because not enough people support it. Getting those people to do so is your job in a democracy. But that would require work.

No change can be achieved solely by doing what YOU want and leaving it all to "the pros". The pros never WANT real change and it always has to be forced on them from below. Remember, in 1960 JFK was basically elected as a segregationist. Only the activist types you sneer at made that change.

...outside of DU. Normal people who want to give some hours of their time to helping support their party. One particularly superb one is actually on DU as well, but he's also frequently at odds with the DU mob, and does loads more outside of DU than he does on DU, but he is the exception. People are way more level-headed outside of the Internet. I've met a handful of people at various real-life political functions who would fit well on DU (one of them was already on here) who just made themselves look like socially-inept hot-headed cranks when plunked down amongst people who were actually trying to get something done. Check out the Illinois Dem Net link in my signature if you want an example of well-organized Democratic activism.

That's you and you alone. Everyone else has moved on.

They all know that doesn't matter anymore and that Nader was the party's fault for moving too far right.

if the health care bill is going to be as bad as it sounds.

Wow.

There IS a difference, you know.

If things played out in the nightmare scenario I outlined above, wouldn't there be a real question as to whether this administration deserved to be nominated for a second term? Especially since every Democratic administration in the 20th Century was well to the right of it first-term actions during its second term.

then I will vote to re-elect him.

And we will be out of Iraq by then.

Steve

I was talking about the primaries.

President Palin anyone?

I think Obama is doing a fine job so far, but even if his presidency turned into a total failure it would still be preferable to anything the other side has to offer.

Puerto Rico, aka, the tie-breaker.


Seriously, why all the doom and gloom all the time?

:thumbsdown:

I'm talking about how people would feel if certain things came to pass. You would agree, I assume that if healthcare reform with a public option didn't go through this year(which means it would never go through)and that if EFCA doesn't go through, that this wouldn't be a Democratic administration. The rest is middle-class side issues, like the tiny differences between Clinton's policies and Reagan/Bush's.

I have no wish to see President Obama defeated. I do think, however, that we have a right to demand that there be no further rightward swings on anything, period. You only need to triangulate during the first campaign.

Supreme Court appointments
Mexico City policy
Stem Cell policy
EPA policy
Iraq Negotiation
Iran Negotiation
Israeli Settlements
Discretionary budget
College Tax credit
CARS
...and they good news keeps coming.