Can we have a serious discussion?: Why is President Obama's approval rating dropping noticeably?

I really want to drill down to the actual substance of the matter here and not get tied up in ridiculous notions like it's because Max Baucus secretly wishes that John Mccain will run in 2012 and that's why things are tied up in Senate Finance while at the same time Baucus proudly appears at a townhall in Montana supporting the President last weekend in the ultime double agent scheme. Nor, do I want the explanation: It's because Greta Van Susteren and Sean Hannity are telling people bad stuff about the President. They spent ALL YEAR last year doing their best to derail his campaign. It did not work. The idiots at Fox News don't have the sway that they think they have.

Now, we've got the superficial and ridiculousness out of the way (hopefully): Now WTF is the problem America? Is it because you:
1. Feel uncomfortable with his race?
2. Did the Gates incident have far more of a profound impact on views of Obama than we realize?
2, Think that the deficit is too high (when did the public ever care about the deficit)
3. Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq
4. Really feel that Obama wants to kill Grandma and set up euthanasia panels for the elderly. No sane person believes that.
5. Impatient about health care?
6, The economy? But it is improving and the Dow is at recession highs. Unemployment even went DOWN in July.

I don't get it...what's going on? Nothing makes sense? Maybe the point that I ridiculed at the beginning of my post as I wrap up is the correct one: the media crusade against him is having its desired effect? I don't really buy that as the Mccain-cheerleading media didn't swing the election. If I had to guess, I'd say the Gates incident was a dividing line from his approval ratings high to now and also maybe the horrible economic news in early summer.

What do you think? And also please refrain from any snide comments. Pretending that something doesn't exist is just stupid.

Also, any new program you introduce is going to produce a healthy bout of skpeticims. Never mind the crazies from the right, they were never really in the convo from the get go. As the dialogue on health care evens out things will look better.

It's fine.

That will sharpen opposition. It's called leadership.

I know that's not popular to cheer here but that is a good thing.

He's forced to pushed through his agenda and you can tell has no plan to go out like Clinton in eight years.

sorry, had to get that one in quick, making my point on edit.

The same people that hated him during the election still hate that he is a not completely white president. That covers 1, 2, and 4. I do not believe anyone new has joined on that band wagon.
The wars go on, and that helps no one. The people who were in favor of them are by and large in that first group that never were and never will be for Obama. But the people against them haven't seen the rapid change we wanted. And the same with the deficit. For some reason, fiscal conservatism has always been popular.

But the biggest thing is #5 and #6. The economy is getting better, but unemployment is still ridiculously high. And those people without a job, or with family members with no jobs are finding it hard to be enthusiastic about much of anything. Its hard to be happy when you are at the end of your financial line, and it isn't really getting much better.

And 5... I think there is a desire for LEADERSHIP. Not generalities, but a leader with a plan and something solid to offer. 500 odd congress people are not able to effectively offer that, but that seems to be the offer on the table. We wanted a front man, a figurehead to blaze the way. And, to be honest, we are spoiling for a fight. All this "lets compromise" is not terribly fulfilling or cathartic. Especially as more and more time passes without any of the really big things making any real movement.

The left needs a bone. It could have been real investigations, or a rapid end to the wars. It could have been EFCA, or a strong move on equal rights or civil liberties. It could be health care. There may be other things. But theres gotta be one, or there will be dissatisfaction and disillusionment.

So, to recap. The right is unhappy, and gonna stay that way at least till Obama's term is over. The middle wants to see something really solid that they can sink their teeth into, introduced with principled leadership. The Left wants Something, anything that really shows us we really won and the nightmare is really over.

During an election, the point is to make a choice, and so it isn't so much about who is perfect, but about who will most likely cure our ills. In the case of Obama vs. McCain, Obama was surely seen as the one better equipped to handle the problems we faced, and when seen side by side with McCain, not even the media propaganda could tarnish the truth of that matter.

However, once Americans settled on a winner, than it was a matter of getting that cure, and getting it fast. So I see Obama's poll numbers being affected by a combination of negative media propaganda, and folks wanting to be cured of all of the problems that we have experienced in the past 8 years and then some.

In otherwords, it is unfortunately true that Americans have the memory of a gnat in general, and are bigtime into instant fixes. So a rational context existing during the election suddenly disappears once the choice of President is made. Obama got elected, but that didn't mean that most would actually appreciate him once he was there.

An example would be Iraq. During the election, folks understood that an Obama presidency would better get us out of Iraq than a McCain presidency. However, once Obama became President, he is now being judged (in his whole 8 months) on how fast he can get us out, not simply that he will.


I think that the Gates incident has very little to do with Obama's poll numbers.....and that people's unrealistic expectation as to what should have happened once Obama became President coupled with media negativity = lower poll numbers than he received initially.

His numbers will get back up there, but first he has to satisfy the American people by performing minor and major miracles. It is just the way that it is.

The future of the Democratic Party is in the hands of our Senators and members of Congress.

If they deliver meaningful healthcare reform that extends coverage and cuts costs, they can save themselves and President Obama.

If they cave in to the insurance companies and other profiteers, then they will deserve to be in serious trouble.

The fact is, President Obama will only need 50% to get re-elected in November 2012.

he never had the right and now he's lost the left.

Because...he's not good enuf.

I think that's 10 points.

there is going to be a drop in poll #'s.
Some people are fearful and in the mode that they don't want anyone touching what is "their's", its a horde mentality.
Anyone who thought this would be a cakewalk forgot about what Clinton went through in 93/94. Or why health care never got off the ground for any other President that ever tried it.
On top of it, there is the fact that Obama inherited a crappy economy and it will take a long time for it to turn around no matter who was going to be President. The important thing is that Obama stopped it from really getting bad.
The support lost is not really from the left...its Rethugs that gave him a chance and right leaning independents. If he starts to lose left leaning independents and the left then there will be a further drop. Clinton and Reagan both had drops in poll #'s bigger then this and bounced back. And of course there is George Bush. Poppy Bush and Carter lost because they seemed out of touch with the pain of the people (although for Carter it was essentially a lie). I doubt Obama has that issue.

The whole public option mess last week exemplifies this--ask three different administration officials a question and you get three different versions of Obama's position. No one stays on message because the President has failed to give a clear sense of direction. It also doesn't help when his chief of staff frequently contradicts him. I How many times has this happened since January?

A big part of the President's job is to lead. If he isn't leading, he isn't doing a good job.

President Obama, he has not demonstrated leadership on the health care issue. And I'd like to think that the American people are more progressive and they want reform. The M$M has framed this issue as a "liberal" one, as if ONLY liberals want reform. The reality is that the majority of the American public agree with US!! They want reform just like we do!

It is hard to argue that his approval rating has not declined. They are still pretty good, but not as stellar as they were a few weeks ago.

I never trusted them and find that they are deceptive.

So when they say his number are 46/50, add 10 to it, 56/44. Yes, of course his numbers are going to slip, but the bias of the pollsters needs to be put into consideration.

Has the M$M been on Obama's side? Uh no..and polls can be made to say whatever the pollster wants. If 90% were appoved of Obama's handling of things, would they say it? NO. Same goes for these online pollsters.

change sounds good but when people come right up to it, its scary, people pull back, wring their hands and want more time to consider.

this is where leadership comes in, re-assuring us all, its going to be okay.

Typical MSM bullshit

they all had negative stories on Obama. Stephanopulus, Morris (on CBS) etc.

"are you satisfied with the way the president has been handling health care?"

i would answer that with a big fat "no"

but only because i want obama to twist more arms, kick more ass, call motherfuckers out, that sorta thing

and i'm pretty sure i'm not alone in that sentiment

however

barry and la familia are still aces with me

anyway

polls schmolls

the ramping up of troop numbers in Afghanistan and Obama "dragging feet" on getting out of Iraq. :thumbsdown:

Come on.... this is the good war.

The losses are mainly among independents and senior citizens, both of which are susceptible to right wing propaganda for different reasons.

Conversations with them are so sickening, they spout one liners taken right from the TV. Their topics are exactly like those on the MSM broadcasts.

Too many people buying the BS.

Democrats FDR, Truman, LBJ, and Clinton never hesitated to call out the opposition and assail their motives. Even Eisenhower was more aggressive with the far-right members of his own Party, actually calling them "stupid" when they favored ending Social Security. Progressives want the President to express their rage for the past 8 years. We can't even see those who fraudulently brought us into war, prosecuted for their crimes?

Americans like presidents who make a stand and lead.

even if he didn't cause it--until it gets better. People forget that Ronald Reagan in early '83 was under 40% in polls during height of 82-83 recession and Mondale was beating him in trial heats! 2) the democrats have been off message on health care while the GOP has been organized. Hopefully this will change.

People who believe he will sellout the public option (buying into the media noise) + those who are trying to stop health care reform + those who demand single payer = disapproval of his handling of health care. They are bringing his job approval rating down.

What's apparent is that with the left griping, blue dogs resisiting, and media and right distorting, health care reform was never an easy proposition. The push back is coming from all sides.

Obama's favorability ratings are still in the high 50s. Latest WaPo-ABC poll.



Trust will return when Obama passes health care reform.
He will score a huge victory for Americans by passing a bill with a public option.

organized repub fear mongering has something to do with it.

But I think the other part is the Democratic party's refusual to act like an organized political party. I mean, can the WH, House and Senate not friggin get their act together? The repubs work toether and I'm pretty sure my beagal is smarter than some of them, and she eats poop.

And a general sense of unfocused message coming from the WH.

Some are probably worried about the deficit.

Some are frustrated by the economy and many are suffering right now.

His leadership on healthcare has been weak, which has opened him to attacks from the right and has alienated some on the left.

Add it all up and that could account for the ten per cent drop.

because he's "doing too much" and he's a *gasp* NEGRO.

NT

Corporate media is not our friend.

The Republican leadership, according to these very same polls, is far less popular than Obama, and yet how often do you hear them trumpeting that?

Americans are fickle and never happy, always need something to bitch about ... if its hot they complain "it's too damn hot, wish fall was here", then it gets cold they complain again...

One thing seldom noted about the antiwar vote is that it obviously went overwhelmingly to Obama for his position on Iraq, even though these voters were not very comfortable with his articulated position on Afghanistan. As a Canadian, I don't get a vote (unfair!)but if I had one, it would of course have gone to Obama, and still would today.

Having said that, my hope was that maybe Obama could figure out a way to politically finesse this issue by doing something creative that might shake up the situation and cause some forward movement in de-escalating this conflict, and restoring tolerable order and security to the region.

In my view, what he actually done so far is exactly what I would have expected a Bush would do: he has dramatically escalated the war, extended it into Pakistan, and put the U.S. back on the military escalation treadmill in this region (to the great applause of the military and the war industry) in a truly Bushian manner.

This is quite disappointing and the opposite of what I had hoped, but I won't belabor this point here, as the real point I'm trying to make here is this: there are many complexities in how our personal support for any president rises and falls that cannot be explained simply by reducing the issue down to whether or not that person is implementing the policies he advocated in the campaign. I think the same is true for public support as a whole.

- B

I think if a bill with a strong public option is passed and signed then you will see his number fly back up.

Believe me I'm one of Obama's biggest defenders. But he's come off as really weak in this healthcare debate. Scared to get tough on lawmakers, not willing to put his foot down on what he wants. Letting Congress basically do what they want. I know if I feel he's come off as weak, that the fringe supporters have seen it too. Worried about whether Republicans like him or not. Scared to offend people. I worry if he doesn't change this will hamper his presidency.

David Brooks said it best. No one fears Obama. I think thats a problem for a President. Q

Whether people agree with your not. If you take a strong stance and put your foot down. People respect that. His approval will go up.

That's not an unreasonable assumption.

I would never call Obama weak. He is a black man who used his intelligence, class, dignity and charm to get to this stage.He is from Chicago, he knows how to hustle. So obviously, he is no lightweight else he wouldn't be here with the natural circumstances.

No one fears Obama? But republicans are threatened by him.

As for a strong stance, Bush was so strong in his views, yet his approval ratings were close to the temperature of Minnesota in Winter!


Approval ratings go up and down, after all, Raygun's was less than 50% and he is considered to be one of the 'greatest' presidents.

........ it's that, right now, it simply doesn't matter.

How did Bush's 90 plus approval rating in 2001 help him 2004? He won .... but barely and by then it was already back to 50%.

Stressing over his approval rating in August of his first year is a waste of time and energy .... and talking about it right now is making me late to work! lol

I want warrants delivered to BushCo, Employee Free Choice Act, and universal single-payer. I want a flat tax on people and businesses to pay for it. I want the insurance, oil, financial, and media monopolies broken up. I want out of NAFTA and GATT. I want protective tariffs. I want nuclear fusion pumping the megajoules I need into my electric car.

....except for the nuclear fusion part.

You could also add that I want equal protection under the law, as a gay person.

The honeymoon was over for us almost immediately.

Turns out progressives are starting to get a taste of how it feels to be marginalized and abandoned by a president they worked hard to elect.

So for all of you who had harsh words in the face of our totally justifiable outrage, grief, and bitter disappointment, as we discovered that America's First Black President thinks civil rights are only for straight people:

How's it all working out for you now?

I think like FDR, we're going to have to make him via the Congress. If this health-care thing flops I figure we'll get some action on other issues.

Of course, it's still only been six months, a flash in the pan for Congress. I have hope for the next couple of years as well.

My fear is that they might do another assault-weapons ban, either as "punishment" to the right wing for killing health care or as a sop to the left wing for being spineless. Which, of course, would be an electoral disaster for us.

That's up to the states to make that decision.

n/t

while both sides are fighting to the death. It created a big clusterfuck where nothing is getting down to move it forward.

Obama needs to make a more proactive role in developing the plan. The average American supports health care reform and wants to see the president actually do something about it. He tried his bipartisan approach for too long which just pissed off the left without gaining any support from the republicans.

is in polls in Dec/Jan, the vast majority of people said they thought it would take 2 years for the economy to improve and didn't expect it to either, but yet they're judging him on the economy? They said they weren't going to! I knew they were lying. Anyway, I do agree with you cleo, not to worry about poll numbers in August 2009 when the election is in November 2012. It's just frustrating.

I also agree that health care has not been handled well PR wise at all.

He is PISSED to high heaven with Obama right now and yes he voted for him and loves him as our President.

He wants a line in the sand and I can't say I blame him, I had to agree.

He said he'd LOVE to be able to offer insurance for his employees (3 women) but he just can't afford it.

Then he went on to say that he has diabetes (pre-existing) and was quoted $1,500 per month for health insurance. That's just for him, not his wife.

It's sickening and outrageous.

LINE - SAND. Let's go!

Not the right-wing maniacs hijacking town hall meetings so they can claim their 15 minutes of fame on FOX News.

69.5 million people voted for President Obama. They want to see him deliver affordable healthcare for all.

Leaving everything in the hands of for-profit insurance (extortion) companies won't deliver this objective.


"All I’m saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don’t have it, is not the entirety of health care reform. This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it. And by the way, it’s both the right and the left that have become so fixated on this that they forget everything else" - President Obama, Grand Junction, Colorado, August 15, 2009

He doesn't appear to care what kind of plan passes. Just that something gets done. Very similar to the stimulus bill which he let congress put together. It had (IMO) too much pork, and not enough stimulus. It's going to cost in the long run because the economy could have used a much bigger and quicker boost.

I would say its because Obama isn't taking a strong stance / drawing the line and calling people out. Basically he seems timid almost as if the right wing "caught" him and people are feeling suspicious. Of course Fox News doesnt help and the MSM not bothering to correct lies.

You guys are great and have helped me to understand things better!! Also, iF ABC is right and his approval rating really is 57%, that is still tremendous. It's jsut that other polls don't show that high.

It's been a bad summer for Obama.

As to your point #6: People don't give a shit about the Dow because they've used their savings just to continue to make through another month without being thrown out of their residences. And even in July, hundreds of thousands of people continued to lose their jobs.

Now I'm not blaming all of that on Obama, but let's not pretend that the economy is nothing but a piece turd right now. The longer it stays that way, the lower his numbers will go.

The Right has nothing to do with his approval rating decline. They are constant in their disapproval. Expect no change there.

The Left may be a little disappointed and impatient with the health care and war issues. If anyone polled me, that would be my hot buttons. Of course, a lot of that is misdirected, blame should be shared by numerous Democratic congresspeople. But, dissatisfaction rolls up hill.

:hi:

nt

...and to those Republicans who once were giving him the benefit of the doubt, he looks scary.

I hate that they even consider themselves "independent" - what "I" really means...let the democrats and republican's choose who the final two candidates are. Then they complain who the final two candidates are, and then they are first to jump ship when the shit hits the fan.

These so-called independents don't pay attention, they are followers and easily lead by the nose by those around them.

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Have a nice day..

It's nothing to do with Gates. Race may be one factor but not the only, however I would guess if he was a white man, his approval numbers would be at least 5-10% higher than it is at this moment.


It's the fact these shrill Republicans go on tv talking about death panels and all that other shit meanwhile the Democrats are sitting their asses down and not attacking. Now they are starting to attack back and his poll numbers are rising.


Repeat a lie long enough and idiots would soak it up. It's his and the Democrat's responsibility to catch them on their lies and be strong and aggressive about it.

Regardless, he still has strong support, his poll numbers will never dip lower than 50%.

But, If they don't like America why don't they leave? :nopity:

Obama inherited a sinking ship, and it takes time to turn that around. As the ship continues to slide downward it's inevitable that some will lose faith in its new captain, unless and until things turn around.

Bottom line is we have no need to worry about approval ratings before the Nov. 2010 elections at the earliest, and that's just to make sure we return a Congress that can do the people's business. Speaking of which - the best way to ensure this happens is by placing a higher priority on doing what's right - ending wars, preserving the environment, fixing health care - than on doing what pleases the right (who have shown collectively not merely indifference but active hostility to working in a spirit of cooperation - an attitude that must forfeit any expectation of compromise).

You also realize that 45% of people polled believed that part of healthcare includes giving it to illegal aliens and determining if old people should live?

The media onslaught againt this president is worse than anything I have ever seen.

At this point anything above 50% is good.

It's just the nature of politics.

I said last Spring that progressive's constant bitching about everything would end up weakening Obama before health care came up for a vote. Not a great strategy, but progressives can't help themselves -- they're always look for something to complain about and someone to blame. It's one thing to complain about something that is eregious, but complaining about EVERY FUCKING THING is different. It started before the inauguration -- bitching based on speculation about who he might choose for his cabinet for Christ's sake.

Obama has done more in the past eight months than any other president in recent history. But leave it to the Dems to fuck up their own party and their own chances at re-election. If Republicans gain control of the Senate, we'll really have something to bitchin about.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/major-factor-in-obamas-wapo-poll-slide-drop-among-dems-liberals/

Much talk today has focused on Obama’s difficulties with independents. But the drop among Dems and liberals is also a key driving factor in the President’s skid, according to WaPo polling analyst Jennifer Agiesta, who graciously provided the additional data.

When the economy turns (and it will), Obama's number will go up, barring some future or unknown scandal.