Is it possiible that Messrs. Obama & Emmanuel are just a wee bit smarter than we credit them for?

Like it or not as Democrats we are ar far less organized thean the other guys. Under our big ten, it should not suprise anyone that there is a three ring circus.

Obama and Emmanuel certainly knew this going in when they let the clowns in congress run the legislative process,



But I have to wonder out loud if the distancing we saw this past weekend on the public option was not in part or perhaps in whole designed to get the base galvanized, Like it or not the while 70%+ of the electorate want a public option only 45% of the House or the the Senate will support it on the record, AN angry base is Obama's best allies in kicking the Moderates in the Ass. They need the full-throated angry voice of the right to counter the crazies on the right who's bark is far greater than the right.

The Right seems to be winning in part because the media loves conflict,, but also because the other 70% have been relatively silent other than throwing the Blue Dogs under the Bus and threatening them with primary challenges.
The President needs us to get loud... angry... belligerent in support of a Strong Public Option and he needs us to tell congress we support it fully and entusiatically.


Congress know the haters on the right are not going to vote for them next 14 months. What they are most worried about is that there is no real pushback and in the absence of anger on our side . the muddled middle in this country will listen to whatever the MSM tells them is the consensus view,


The president's dog whistle to the left in this country ought to be very clear, if we stop barking at him long enough to hear it, Tell your Congressman you want them to vote for a Public Option Rather than threatening them, we should be telling them how we are going to help get them reelected(Donations, canvassing, whatever it takes). Rather then throwing them under the Bus, the President is telling us to tell the Blue Dogs we got their backs.

on Messrs. Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs.

Heading off to my room to finish up book Two... (rereading - did #6 right after I saw the movie, then 7 -- soooo friggin' intense, and maybe even better than reading it the first time. Then decided to start at the beginning w/ #1. I did this a year or so back - (or maybe it was right before 7 came out 2 years ago) - re-read all of 'em in sequence. SUCH a treat!

Just by talking about wanting a bipartisan solution? He has made it clear that he wants a bipartisan bill but will move forward with or without them. Plus, the more he talks about wanting a bipartisan solution, the more the Republicans look like douchebags for stalling and/or refusing to support any of the compromises, which they are already doing. I don't think he really expects the Republicans to support anything in the end and I don't think that he and the Democrats in Congress are going to pass anything into law negotiated by the Republicans if it doesn't even look like they will vote for it in the end.

the face of the Repugs' withering contempt for him, the more foolish and out of touch with reality Obama looks.
Obama has never said he will VETO a health insurance bill that does NOT include a public option, now, has he? If he will not commit to drawing a line in the sand for the public option in no uncertain terms -- and he has been very careful to avoid committing to it that way, he's a master of weaselspeak on the subject -- then the only signal he's sending is to Repugs and his signal says that he is more willing to accommodate them than the citizens who actually, you know, voted him into office.

why isn't he one himself? All of this talk about "bipartisanship" is just that: TALK and the more he talks about it the more people notice that the Republicans are not trying to be bipartisan and help get HCR done. I believe that is already starting to be reflected in the polling. I think that it is his way of *innoculating* himself and the Dems from charges of partisanship when they are finally forced to go it alone on HCR or any other issues. Obama and the Dems can at least say they tried to include but the Republicans, being the douchebags they are, are NOT going to "compromise" with Obama or anybody else and will never help Obama have any successes. Obama KNOWS this. He does not love Republicans any more than you and I. Unlike us, however, he at least has to ACT like he cares. :shrug: The Republicans won't even consider supporting Conrad's nutty "co-op" proposal and haven't signaled any support for anything other than their own "plan", none of which AFAIK is included in any of the proposals favored by Obama and the Dems in Congress.

doesn't he? Ted Stevens - out of jail card. Don Siegelman - who's that? John Yoo - who's that? DADT, DOMA - defend!

what planet do you spend most of your time on?

You'd think that if Obama was best buddies with the RNC, he'd be more loved by them. A quick glance at the news on any given day should easily dispel THAT notion! :eyes:

...now he is saying "I hope it can be a bipartisan" bill. He is doing what he should be doing, attempting to be the President for ALL of America while still working to achieve the agenda the best that he can with what he has to work with.

the GOP is really going to look foolish once the actual voices start being heard on the floor of the House and in the Senate chamber. They will shown as who and what they actually are and have been; The Party Of No.

It'll also be good to see if some of our democratic members have the balls to stand there on the senate floor and explain why we CAN'T do HCR. Their mailboxes and phone lines will be burning up with angry democrats.

I'll wait until September before I score who wins and who loses this fight. Anybody want to make a bet?

Obama and the Democrats knew that things weren't going to get done before the August recess but it seems like they have made the most of the recess by letting the opposition's craziness and recalcitrance shine brightly and continuing to talk about the need for "bipartisanship". Those town hall meeting disruptors and comments made by Sarah "Death Panel" Palin and Chuck "Stalling" Grassley are just what we need to come back in September to finish the job right. In the end, the Republicans are going to have to either put up or shut up......or just get drug back to the mental asylum they escaped from.

Like it or not as Democrats we are ar far less organized thean the other guys. Under our big ten, it should not suprise anyone that there is a three ring circus.

Obama and Emmanuel certainly knew this going in when they let the clowns in congress run the legislative process,


Let's apply Occam's Razor. Which is more likely... 1) Obama's strategy of laying out vague goals for reform then letting Congress work out details while he schmoozes with the corrupt industries that are the root of the problem and he attempts to work with Republicans has utterly, completely backfired, or 2) Obama & Emmanuel are political chess masters the likes of which we have never seen in America who have now beaten the GOP like rented mules and are now poised to push through their agenda.

Considering how Emmanuel would have blown the 2006 elections with his electoral strategy (despite his victory dance afterward, it was Dean's 50-state strategy that was the winner) and Obama's general lack of a track record of moving significant legislation, I say it's scenario 1.

What happened, was that they've already thrown the public option out the window---as indicated by the news trickling out about the negotiations, coupled with Obama and his aides getting us used to the idea of kissing the public option goodbye. They didn't realize that the unions would side with the progressives over the Blue Dogs. They thought they had us in their coat pocket, as if we are dittoheads who take top down orders from our commanders. They were wrong, and now they're shitting themselves trying to figure out how to keep us from getting too pissed.

and the method of approach with the Blue Dogs. Obama has been asking for that for months.

Disagree with the distancing, 3 words spoken by Sebelius were misinterpreted, that's all.

And the dynamic of the argument is changing....

We haven't seen all of their cards yet, so that last "down and dirty" card may change the whole game. I believe he's playing with the pukes, like a cat with a mouse!

and access to all bits of important information.

As for Emannuel, I think I have his intelligence level pegged just about right. :)

laid low.

Them Dirty Buggers knew the GOP had to do something...but what?

Sure nuff, the GOP went all out for the BC and the Health Care Cards....

The Basterd O/R Team weakly countered, they having been overwhelmed while at the Nations Helm. inept weaklings.

Chess Masters My ASS

More like ROPE A DOPE

:facetiousness:

But so far it looks like they are outsmarting themselves and I would like to see them more aggressive on health care reform!
Also, Obama's ehs between every word is getting to me, this doesn't show thinking about it, it shows that he isn't sure what he thinking and at all times he is trying to appease the RETHUGS!

If their goal is to pass a reform measure which truly reduces costs and provides universal coverage, they are failing. If their goal is to placate the private insurers and drug companies by trashing effective reform, they are succeeding. When President Obama took single-payer off the table, he betrayed the majority of Americans who need real reform.

who needs loud, vulgar, ruthless and power-mad?

I'm beginning to see (in hindsight) that almost every move has a purpose. I wish I was in on the strategy sessions. Since I'm not, and since I've been impressed in the past, I think I shall give Obama the benefit of the doubt and my support. I'll continue to sit here with my popcorn, waiting and watching for the preamble to end and the real show to begin.

ETA: There is too much consensus even among the Left MSM about Obama indecisiveness and apparent waffling. I can't help but think this is part of the game plan in setting up the Reps to a state of stupid grinning complacency. I know it sounds like a weird leftie prayerful, hopeful, blind following. I know it does. But there is something so obviously shallow in the way certain things are being reported even by KO and RM. Am I the only one in the universe seeing, sensing a giant 'gotcha' moment about to hit?

I give them a lot of credit for smart.

since Rahm isn't really for it. They were truly caught by surprise, I think.

Whatever it takes to push this over the edge, it wiser wee believe this isn't true stay mad and stay pushing this in right direction.