Why have a few DU'ers in here typed that the right is "winning?"

As if this were a game show...

What's being "won" here, exactly? The only gamesmanship I have seen in the news lately has been strictly rhetorical. No bills have been drawn, voted on, or signed. The best analysis at the moment is at the most highly speculative.

Even on a rhetorical level, this week wasn't a very good week for rabid conservative voices. Yes, their emotive appeal and ability to generate noise has had an impact, but this last week, the lunacy of the town hall interrupters has fallen way to Obama's reemergence in front of the camera at a few town hall meetings after his visit with Middle Eastern leaders. I think the rhetorical tide has turned back in favor of Obama.

But again - the impact is strictly rhetorical. Congress is not yet back in session, and other than those four or five bills that have been floating around committees, no more concrete actions have occurred.

I think that the public will be over-saturated very soon with the day-to-day particulars about the debate. Journalists will still cover it because the story is impactful, but I don't get the sense that the public's energy will hold out. At the end of the day, Obama will get his way. The only real means of action we can take is petitioning every single US Senator to make sure that any bill that steps out of Congress has a public option.

And that's where we can take real actions. Not merely rhetorical ones.

Still a lot of innings left in this rhetorical game. Perhaps many thought we'd have put more points on the board by now and aren't real happy about the squabbling in the dugout, but it's early yet. We have a young but very talented team.

And then there's the Pojama People.

have said that last year at this time.

When Pundits (whom are considered credible ) say Obama
is losing at the moment whether we like their message or
like them does not matter.

I believe Obama can turn it around, but it will be a hard slog.

I think Congress should shoulder some blame, but apparently
the way it works the blame falls on the President.

The Democrats should know that they had to control the Message
and not let the GOP get out in front. Kerry made this mistake
and lost an election. I am saying the Dems on the Hill fell
short as well. A bad few weeks does not mean all is lost.

They prefer the role of being the downtrodden underrepresented minority. As long as we're losing and miserable, they are in their element.

They have been disarmed of everything but their mouth. Like a cornered rat they lash out, and lash out loud. But they are just a cornered rat. A bunch of noise, but not winning a fight.

They know what they don't want, but our leaders don't know what they want.

Also, the lies have spread to a point that poll numbers for Obama have gone down since these townhalls began. It's not fair, but the reality.

They are out SHOUTing us, but thats not how we roll :) The noise from the peanut gallery won't matter in the long run because every congressman knows it is all based on loony talking points pulled out of a dead elephants ass.

If the Dems don't pass a decent health care bill, they will have lost that issue, which was one of the big issues the Dems won on. Not the only one, but one of them.

If the Dems lose on that issue, they risk losing Congress in next year's elections, which means the Republicans have a chance of taking back the majority in the Senate ("winning" back the Senate).

You may not like it, but this is a win-lose situation. But if you don't like that terminology, use other terminology more to your liking. It means the same thing. Winning vs. losing doesn't trivialize the issue at all.

BTW, I love Obama. I supported him from waaaaaay early on and contributed to his campaign. But I see what I see in the media, which is that the Republicans, so far, are "winning" this issue. The last week has shown some glimmer of hope for the Dems to take the issue back and end up on top. I hope that continues. But the yelling at the town halls, the organized town hall group-attendees, and the solid, one-voice messages by Republican leaders have had an effect. Democrats have increasingly been arguing with one another, retreating from the public option or other provisions being talked about.

It's not over til it's over, though. And it ain't over.

is not an overnight open and closed victory.

Any issue of magnitude will take courage, patience, strategy (and frankly ball/ovaries of iron).

History tells us this but many fail to pay attention

The Civil rights movement was not an overnite win....the civil rights movement began during the Civil War.....yes, we had a modern civil rights movement starting in the 50's and 60's but that fight had long been going on.

The womens movement was not an overnite victory.....

The Gay rights movement will not be an overnite victory....

Healthcare reform will not be an overnite victory....

Prosecution of the war criminals from the * admin.....(well this one is up in the air)

The bottom line is it has taken 30 years for the Repugs to run this country in the ground with their corporatist/facist running of the country and people need to get realistic and understand that it not going to take a mere 7 months to correct all that is wrong in this country.

Random Thoughts....

"white" and "war" is "peace." Some are quite subtle; others are more easily identifiable for what they truly are.
Sorry, not for me, please. It ain't over until it's over and I'm not buying into the Obama is losing meme right now.
I never thought that health care reform would be easy. Especially with the Republicans fighting it with every breath they breathe and too many bought-and-paid-for Dems who are looking to waffle. This is exactly why we needed Howard Dean as HHS Secretary and I still am very unhappy about his being callously tossed aside after everything that he did for the Democratic Party.
But I am not ready to give up the good fight. Not just yet.
I could personally throttle Sebelius for her appearance on MTP last Sunday where she, involuntarily or voluntarily, gave the Rethugs and the MSM that slavishly fawns on them their major talking point of the week (Administration signals that public option not essential) and too many cowardly Dems an opportunity to show their true colors by jumping aboard that talking point instead of pointing out that there was a misinterpretation at the very least.
But, by their proclamations we shall know them. If Dems fail to vote for meaningful health care reform containing a public option, the "D" after their names will not save them in the next election round.

them "Fail Pushers" and for whatever reason they continue to predict dire shit.

My view is that they won't be happy until everyone is brought down to their level of pessimism/and or/depression ..and that ain't gonna happen.

...pulling America further and further toward fascism/feudalism. We have only to look at the figures on wealth inequity.

Our victories have been small or incomplete. I see the potential for a major victory on health care, but whatever happens will be corporatized as thoroughly as they They can manage.

.