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Matt Taibbi -- Hillary obsessive? Rovian plant? Obama-hating asshole?

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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:01 AM
Original message
Matt Taibbi -- Hillary obsessive? Rovian plant? Obama-hating asshole?
Surely, there must be some good explanation for why he's saying exactly what I've been saying about the "public option":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEDoTmh6HZ0

Again, I ask:

How stupid a country are we that almost no one seems capable of dealing with the fact that "public option" is a vague catchall for an undetermined degree of health-care access, a degree that appears to be shrinking by the day?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Proud Member of Emanuel's "Left of the Left"
Or Dean's "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"

Take your pick.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Or in other words
an actual DEMOCRAT?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Thank you..may I add actual democrat that will not sell out their values or integrity! eom
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Me too - true blue liberal! nt
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Enemy of the people. n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Aren't you tired of this lame line in support of moronism? n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. excellent question!!!!! eom
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Easily excitable, aren't you?
:rofl:

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Ah, from one moronic comment to the other. n/t
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. you seem to be quite the expert on "moronic" behavior aren't you?
since you seem quite enamored and infatuated with the word!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. And you seem unable to distinguish an excellent comment from a moronic one.
Did you really believe that accusing someone of being a paid shill was an excellent comment?

Really?

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Do you get paid for the personal attacks, or just for the posts
that explicitly promote corporatist policies?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Obviously, you have nothing left to resort to. n/t
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I sure do..and without attacking people as you so obviously love to do!
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 01:38 PM by flyarm
refute this: seems to me it is Waxman who is working for us..and Rahm is working against us..and with AHIP and Big Pharms..but you keep believing otherwise..let us grown ups fight for real health care ..not the insurance boys!

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/08/22/waxmans-methods/


Waxman’s Methods
By: emptywheel Saturday August 22, 2009 6:44 am

In a jello-wrestling match between Rahm Emanuel and Henry Waxman, I think I'd bet on the latter. While Rahm has been frantically and loudly pursuing two opposing strategies--the Messina-Baucus welfare program for the insurance industry hidden under the guise of the public option kabuki, Waxman has been quietly preparing for battle in September. And it sounds like the insurance industry is getting increasingly worried that Waxman will be better prepared than Rahm and his little kabuki dance.

House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman raised eyebrows this week when he launched a financial probe into the nation's largest insurance companies, which are at the center of the health reform battle.

Now POLITICO has learned that Waxman's recent investigation began almost a month earlier than previously thought - with letters to the insurance industry's powerful trade group and its consultant regarding grassroots tactics.

A committee spokeswoman defended the probes - saying lawmakers need to know that private insurance money is being spent effectively as part of the effort to control costs. But the trade group, America's Health Insurance Plans, is crying foul, saying Waxman is merely trying to bring it in line behind his version of the health reform bill.

"Congressional oversight is not a tool that should be used to chill dissent," said AHIP spokesman Robert Zirkelbach. "These investigations are nothing more than politically motivated, taxpayer-financed fishing expeditions designed to intimidate and silence health plans."

snip:

I'm getting a feeling that the untold--and developing--story of this health care debate is that when Waxman was forced to push through an imperfect bill with the Blue Dogs on his committee, when he got stuck in negotiations with Rahm just before the break, he realized he was getting screwed. And, lucky for us, he was in a position to do something about it, to prepare for the fight that will come in September.


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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. What the hell are you talking about?
refute this: seems to me it is Waxman who is working for us..and Rahm is working against us..and with AHIP and Big Pharms..but you keep believing otherwise..let us grown ups fight for real health care ..not the insurance boys!

Who the hell said anything about Waxman not working for us or anything about Rahm?

Keep up


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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. If you weren't working so hard to smear people, you would know i am discussing the OP post!
and showing what Matt Tabbi was discussing in the op utube video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEDoTmh6HZ0

But you keep calling people morons..you can catch up with the rest of us later!

I am posting that Waxman gets what is going on and How Obama's man Rahm has sold us out to the insurance boys and Big Pharma...

now go watch the video and read what i posted and you might be able to catch up!..might
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Obama's PhRMA Deal
Obama's PhRMA Deal

Smith: Obama's strategy was to vilify the drug companies and then cut deals with them in secret

The unlikely union of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America or PhRMA and the White House has many wondering about the true nature of this partnership. Especially taking into consideration the powerful lobby’s opposition to any kind of health care reform for years. The Real News spoke with Donna Smith, Community organizer for California Nurses Association, about drug industry's possible impact on the final legislation.

http://www.commondreams.org/video/2009/08/21-1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo65AG_5ZWM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecommondreams%2Eorg%2Fvideo%2F2009%2F08%2F21%2D1&feature=player_embedded

A purchase insurance mandate ..that no negotitating in price will be allowed!! Not allowing the import of cheaper drugs..

So what has gone on in back rooms???????? We the people have the right to know and we have the right to our voices in objection!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Calling something nonsense isn't smearing anyone. BS is BS
The OP:

"public option" is a vague catchall for an undetermined degree of health-care access, a degree that appears to be shrinking by the day?


Waxman on the bill:

The Energy and Commerce Committee approved H.R. 3200, "America's Affordable Health Choices Act," by a vote of 31 to 28. This legislation will build on what works in today's health care system, makes important insurance market reforms to protect consumers, encourages competition among insurance plans to improve choices for patients, and expands access to quality, affordable health care for all Americans.

"Today is a historic moment for the House of Representatives and a defining moment for our country," said Chairman Waxman. "It is a significant victory that all three committees in the House have worked together to pass comprehensive health reform legislation for all Americans. This bill will deliver the results the nation's health care system so desperately needs: lower costs, better quality, and broader coverage. I hope that when we return from recess, the House will act expeditiously to enact this bill into law."

The legislation contains critical insurance reforms to protect consumers. Insurance companies will no longer be able to discriminate on the basis of pre-existing conditions or drop coverage for those who become seriously ill. Insurers will no longer be able to discriminate on the basis of gender or selectively refuse to renew coverage. And they will be required to fully cover regular checkups and preventative care without cost-sharing and abide by limits on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

The legislation also changes the structural costs in the health care system. It lays the groundwork for major reforms in the delivery system that will over time help improve the quality of care and put us on a path towards constraining the cost of our health care system. The bill is fully paid for and is deficit neutral.

The legislation is supported by hundreds of organizations representing doctors, surgeons, nurses, hospitals, providers, consumers, labor, researchers, state and local governments, public policy institutions, and others.

<...>



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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. more;
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/21/obamas-numbers-driving-democrats-down/
Obama’s Numbers Driving Democrats Down
By: Jane Hamsher Friday August 21, 2009 11:52 am
Unlike Glenzilla, I'm not worried about the Naderization of the left, nor am I worried that Obama will lose young people if he fails to appease the liberal base. He will lose young people and the left if he forces them to pay tribute to Blue Cross with no cost controls and no competition. There is no constituency who supports that. I could run the campaign against that tomorrow. I very well may. But even if I don't, the Republicans will.

The White House is obviously looking at similar numbers, hence Obama's reactive leap to sell the the remnants in the "goody bag" that were left after Rahm sold everything else off to PhRMA and AHIP. Which, by the way, do nothing to address the structural problems in the health care system, they just force the public to throw billions at Wellpoint's bottom line.

The ability to pass of snake oil and call it French perfume has its limits. I can't believe Rahm didn't see that train coming.

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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. It's so lame and played out.
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 12:00 PM by Cali_Democrat
I thought I was the only one seeing that lame line again and again from the same poster.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
47. that makes two of you
I think it's funny as hell...

and the perfect riposte to to the adoration of the Obama as practiced by some on this board.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. It might be funny the first few times
But then it quickly gets old.

That poster has been posting the same line for months and months.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I just want progressive policy, and we're not getting it
If that's bitter, then I'm bitter.

More "bitterness" for you, from Firedoglake / Open Left poster Ian Welsh:

http://www.ianwelsh.net/bloggers-et-al-notice-that-republicans-can-win-in-2010-and-2012/

Putting people beyond criticism is a sucker's game, and often a bully's game. Keep fighting the good fight against fair criticism of Obama.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Oh, BS. You didn't give a shit about a progressive plan when you supported Hillary.
Hence your stupid OP title. Hillary's plan sucked: It lacked catastrohpic care coverage and was heavily reliant on mandates and penalties.

Like I said, non-supporter of Obama, turned single-payer advocate out of convenience.



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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I can tell you this..I didn't support Hillary..but I guarantee ..she would not have sold us out
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 11:33 AM by flyarm
on health care for all!

That I would bet the farm on!
see my post below..Matt is not the only one exposing the sham we have been sold by Obama!..Greg Palast is exposing the secret meetings and the lying as well!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Obama has sold out no one, but
keep believing in nonsense.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I counter your "BS" with the next post! eom
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. Bull fucking shit. We'd be in the same situation.
We get mandatory fucking PRIVATE insurance with no public option. With Hillary it might be getting pushed through faster, that's all. Hillary, Barack, and even John Edwards were all in the pocket of health insurance shills. Jesus Christ.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. BS, yourself
Hillary's plan was never great, and I was happy to raise objections to it, for example here:

http://www.correntewire.com/i_take_back_all_the_bad_things_i_said_about_ezra_klein#comment-69964

Hillary's plan was more progressive than Obama's, but it -- indeed -- sucked, too. If she were president, I'd be hammering away at her to put forth a better plan.

But so fucking what? Obama's the president, and Hillary isn't.

Obama-obsessed DUers constantly twist the concerns of progressives to be some vestigal Hillary obsession, as one of their many favored dodges to avoid dealing with what a non-progressive he is. He's the fucking president, and he (if you're a progressive) doesn't fucking respect us:

http://www.correntewire.com/ive_got_goosebumps_obama_mentioned_me

Deal with it, or be as truthy as the Bushies.

Oh, and is Glenn Greenwald another bitter asshole, too?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/08/21/obama/index.html

"The central pledges of the Obama campaign were less about specific policy positions and much more about changing the way Washington works -- to liberate political outcomes from the dictates of corporate interests; to ensure vast new levels of transparency in government; to separate our national security and terrorism approaches from the politics of fear. With some mild exceptions, those have been repeatedly violated... Even for those of you who are willing to justify anything and everything in the name of "political pragmatism," betraying clear campaign commitments and constantly exhibiting contempt for core progressive values doesn't seem to be working very well as a political strategy, to put that mildly"

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I see your problem
Hillary's plan was more progressive than Obama's, but it -- indeed -- sucked, too. If she were president, I'd be hammering away at her to put forth a better plan.

Sucky logic coupled with massive bitterness.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. Greg Palast on Air America try to get a copy of it and listen to it
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 11:38 AM by flyarm
8/11/09 it was the Clout show Richard Green show ..it was guest hosted by Christiane Brown hosted

yes Very liberal network Air America , Ms Brown calls Obama a "charming liar"..this was not Glen Beck..it was on Air America ..an interview with very liberal Greg Palast..he exposes the damn lies and the back room deals Obama made with big Pharma!

actually there is a podcast of the interview on Greg's web site on the right hand side ,,
it is this one.....

Obama's $80 billion backroom bargain with Big Pharma AAR's Clout 8/11/09

http://www.gregpalast.com/obama-on-drugs-98-cheney/#more-2664

In the interview Greg tells about Obama adding troops to Columbia..
a squeeze play for Oil!!!!!!!Greg also mentions Bush light..and Obama.......
please go listen to the interview!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

here is a article By Greg that was on Huffington post..read it!!


http://www.gregpalast.com/obama-on-drugs-98-cheney/#more-2664

Greg added this:

ALERT

Now it's Let's Make a Deal with hospital lobbyists.

First, the President was caught with his principles down, cutting a scuzzy back-room deal with pharmaceutical lobbyist Billy Tauzin to limit drug price savings to just 2% over 10 years (see attached, "Obama on Drugs: 98% Cheney?"), the New York Times today reports that another deal was sealed by lobbyist Chip Kahn of the American Hospital Association.

Here are the numbers they don't want you to see: Hospitals will be allowed to hike their prices and revenues by six trillion dollars ($5,853 billion) over the next ten years, only $155 billion less than they had projected before the Obama "reform."

In all, the Obama back-room deal will "reduce" our $26 trillion total hospital bill over the next decade by one-half of one percent.

Once again, the lobbyists got the gold mine, the public got the shaft.

Say it ain't so, Mr. President.
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. A member of the Cynical Culture Barrons whose bread and butter was made on gov't. corruption...
and who wouldn't acknowledge a good move by a new administration even if it made him immortal.

And he's a sad, pathetic imitation of Hunter S. Thompson.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. ahh yes ..our friends and journalists that exposed all bush corruption are now our enemy!!
I see you got the memo!!

eom
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Larry Johnson exposed Bush.
He's a racist asshole.

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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Oh I know. The only way he's our friend is if he continues his onslaught of any beacon of hope we
may have, even if his positions are arguable.

What a "friend" he must be.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. then argue the positions , don't call out "cynic " names as you did!
pretty simple..

argue what Greg said..not your opinion of names you want to call him.
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. Naive to think policy is in a vacuum, when insurance is involved, 1/6 of GDP, and needs to be
consulted. A quid pro quo if the deal is right could be helpful on a big lift.

Critics are slamming Obama, when media has had a big share of not explaining legislative process, the lies, etc. Easy to blame Obama who to wrangle all the parties to a successful, uphill conclusion.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Obama's problem lies with avoiding taking a stand. He needs to demand
the best plan for the people. Obama will sign any plan; that lands on his desk. I support the brotha on most things, but it is pretty obvious where health care is heading, and it is heading to the sewer.
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. I honestly don't know, but don't think so. Media has been in overdrive being the enemy, but the
country wants good or some reliable health care.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. I seem to recall Hillary and her supporters being obsessed with mandates.
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 12:49 PM by Hello_Kitty
Y'all appear to be getting your precious mandates so what's the prob?

Thanks bunches, Hills. You too, Paul Krugman. :sarcasm:
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Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. And Obama and his supporter hated mandates Now he loves them
Edited on Sat Aug-22-09 01:50 PM by Becky72
Now Obama magically likes the idea. By the way, mandates are not a certaintly. the Finance committe wants to get rid of it.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Actually he supported mandates for children
And gee, who do you think got to him to change his mind on mandates? The same goddamn insurance company shills that convinced Hillary, that's who.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #31
48. it's always been clear that mandates were the only way
that universal healthcare would work. Obama's healthcare proposals concerning mandates during the campaign were disingenuous at best - which hurts his credibility now.

Blame Obama for what is happening, not "Hils" or Krugman.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. And Hillary supporters also told us there would be a public option
That public option was the element that would cause the mandated "universal" coverage to morph into a single payer system. Now we are looking at mandates and no public option. IOW, the insurance industry is going to become even more entrenched and we are going to be forced to subsidize them.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I don't understand what you're trying to say
Hillary supporters are responsible for the healthcare mess we've got now?

Obama is the President
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Obama is the President and is ultimately responsible
But this debate over mandates started in the primaries.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-22-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
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GivePeaceAchance Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
44. I don't know if it's that importnat more what work we do to prove his view wrong....
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 09:57 AM by GivePeaceAchance
Also if he got us all fired up about health care reform then he's done a good thing all the same.
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GivePeaceAchance Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
45. As for would of Hillary done it better, well Obama had the seat gain the rest is up to us....
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 10:12 AM by GivePeaceAchance
The seat gain was everything, we couldn't even consider any progress without them so that's always something never to forget the awesome coat tails that has made so many thing possible so far. And will further if we work. Some may debate there senate could of expanded without Obama but he had all the bling, this is how history had to play out and it did for the best of everyone. No looking back on this, this is the right path and we have to push all the way down the road or retreat to middle ages right wing dystopia. We're so easily distracted well another candidate would of fought harder and whatever but considering blue dogs we had to gain in the senate that job is done and now we fight to make it work with all we've got regardless who turned out to be President really, could of been anyone. This is what we've got this is what we work with President Obama hasn't retreated for barely any campaign promises and neither should we form him when he most needs us. He pledged 'Public Option'in the GE he never lied to us or conned us, he also said he would need us so will we live up to our side of the bargain.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
46. how about "teller of inconvenient truths"
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