What is going to be the reaction when Obama signs a similar health care bill

to this one, as described by Henry Waxman:

going to continue distorting the facts even if the bill described in the OP passes. Glad to know that.

the health insurance/drug companies don't take and get ready to donate to help primary every Congress critter and Senator who doesn't stand up for a strong public option. And President Obama has seen my last dime toward any election. I'm not a Repuke sheeple who will allow someone I truly believe in and fought to get elected with my time, energy and disposable income I didn't really have to fuck me in favor of playing nice with Repukes who hate him and will never vote for anything he used to believe in. Flame away but it's how I feel. USED.

Anything but utopian perfection is heresy and betrayal. Every political step forward in history has always been a single move straight to idealism, and nothing else has ever worked or should be acceptable.

Bitching without reason.

Won't exactly be something for folks to crow about

For me, I know my line in the sand. I expect to see the end of the "preexisting condition". That is non negotiable, and there is nothing to be "traded" for it. I want that free and clear of conditions. I am rather opposed to am insurance purchase mandate, unless if is accompanied by a strong public option. That is what I am willing to trade for a mandate. For me, a mandate without a strong public option is an instant lose. I would like single payer, but I cant think of anything we could trade that "they" would want to enough to make a trade.

So, if what is quoted is the entirety of it, I will be dissatisfied, but unlikely to go ballistic. The only real solid thing that I see there is the dropping of the pre-existing condition. The rest is just words, unverified generalities. In short, it would be a minor win, but a good starting place to go further in the future.

But if it has a mandate attached, with out the return of a strong public option, then it will raise me to more than my usual level of action. I will move past my phone calls and emails. It would likely change my party affiliation, would highly affect my donation patterns, and would bring an instant end to my on the ground activism on behalf of anyone who participated in allowing it. Along with effecting my future votes, calls, etc.

That is my line in the sand. Anything without an end to "preexisting conditions" fails. Anything with a purchase mandate but no public option fails my test, and brings my wrath, for whatever thats worth.

"* It will end increases in premiums or denials of care based on pre-existing conditions, race, or gender, and limited age rating (2:1)."

either public option or mandated purchase specifically, though my interpretation was that the mandate is implied. And that is equally important.

Remember, this is Waxman's summary, not the bill itself.

I don't know what's in there!

* For individuals who either aren't currently covered, or want to enroll in a new health care plan, the proposal will establish a health care exchange where consumers can select from a menu of affordable, quality health care options: either a new public health insurance option or a plan offered by private insurers...

"Ensuring shared responsibility. Fourth, the bill will ensure that individuals, employers, and the federal government all share responsibility for a quality and affordable health care system."

I could be putting a pessimistic spin on things, but that sure sounds like a nice way of saying mandates and subsidies.

As to the part you quoted, I am not seeing that on the ops linked page. I could be blind, but I read through several times looking for it. Assuming I am not just missing it, then that is not relevant to the ops question of what will I do if...

I just did screen caps to show you. It literally does not show on my screen. But if I copy and paste, all the other things everyone is talking about in the thread suddenly show up in the pasted versions.




I will read through what I can now see on my pasted version, and revisit this.

When I pasted I didn't realize all that extra material came with it.

Cue Twilight Zone Music!

:thumbsup:

Everyone was saying things I couldn't see. I did a copypaste to prove my point, and suddenly there it all was. I put in a revised answer to the OP below.

it's all there:


Fact Sheets
•What's in the Health Care Reform Bill For You?
•Public Health Insurance Option
•Guaranteed Benefits
•Making Coverage Affordable
•The Health Insurance Exchange
•Consumer Protections and Insurance Market Reforms
•Innovative Delivery System Reform
•Employers and Health Reform
•Preventing Disease/Improving the Public's Health
•Preventing Waste, Fraud, and Abuse
•Strengthening Medicare
•Improving the Medicare Part D Drug Program
•Maintaining and Improving Medicaid
•Shared Responsibility
•Strengthening the Nation's Health Workforce
•Controlling Costs
•Rural America
•Senior Citizens and People with Disabilities
•Women's Health Care Needs
•Health and Health Care Disparities
Archive Documents
•Health Care Reform Discussion Draft Full Bill Text
•Health Care Reform Discussion Draft Summary
•Health Care Reform Discussion Draft, Section by Section Summary

Its not on the direct link page, so I was not considering it. Adding that to the mix, I will still be mildly disappointed, since I am a bit of an idealist and really think that single payer would really provide the best return on investment. But I will be pretty happy when it is signed into law, and Obama will have reaffirmed the reasons I voted for him in such a way that I will be a lot more silent about any doubts I have as to his process on future issues. And I will likely make at least one post on DU about how wrong I was to doubt our democratic politicians.

I dunno. I think my line is pretty simple and easy to understand, and I suspect that I am not the only one. I admit to being a general pessimist. I don't trust that something good has happened until I have proof that it is here. That doesn't mean I give up on my goals, but I don't trust success until the contract is signed, and even then I have some skepticism until the check clears the bank. I voted for Obama because I thought he was our best chance as a nation. I hoped for a closet socialist, but figured he was probably an honest nice guy. I think he can do great things, but I wont trust he has until the results are in.

10 million people by ***2019***. That is NOT a "robust public option".


This whole deal really is turning out to be the Mother Of All Sellouts.

I am hoping Obama has 2 barrel fulls to unload, just biding his time. But so far I am not loving what I see.

The key principles of legislation include, among other things:

Keeping what works today, and increasing choice and competition. First, the bill will protect and improve consumers' choices.

* If an individual likes their current plan, they will be able to keep it.
* For individuals who either aren't currently covered, or want to enroll in a new health care plan, the proposal will establish a health care exchange where consumers can select from a menu of affordable, quality health care options: either a new public health insurance option or a plan offered by private insurers.
* This new marketplace will reduce costs, create competition that leads to better care for every American, and keep private insurers honest. Patients and doctors will have control over decisions about their health care, instead of insurance companies.

Giving Americans peace of mind about their health coverage. Second, the legislation will ensure that Americans have portable, secure health care plans - so that they won't lose care if their employer drops their plan or they lose their job.

* Every American who receives coverage through the exchange will have a plan that includes standardized, comprehensive and quality health care benefits.
* It will end increases in premiums or denials of care based on pre-existing conditions, race, or gender, and limited age rating (2:1).
* The proposal will also eliminate co-pays for preventive care, cap out-of-pocket expenses, and guarantee catastrophic coverage that protects every American from bankruptcy.

Improving quality of care for every American. Third, the legislation will ensure that Americans of all ages, from young children to retirees have access to greater quality of care by focusing on prevention, wellness, and strengthening programs that work.

* The proposal guarantees that every child in America will have health care coverage that includes dental and vision benefits.
* It will provide better preventative and wellness care. Every health care plan offered through the exchange will cover preventative care.
* By growing the health care workforce, the proposal will ensure that more doctors and nurses are available to provide quality care as more Americans get coverage.
* The proposal strengthens Medicare and Medicaid so that seniors, people with disabilities and low-income Americans receive better quality of care and see lower prescription drug costs and out-of-pocket expenses.

Ensuring shared responsibility. Fourth, the bill will ensure that individuals, employers, and the federal government all share responsibility for a quality and affordable health care system.

* Employers who currently offer coverage will be able to continue offering coverage to workers. Employers who don't currently offer coverage could choose to cover their workers or pay a penalty.
* All individuals would be required to get coverage, either through their employer or the exchange, or pay a penalty.
* The federal government will provide affordability credits, available on a sliding scale for low- and middle-income individuals and families to make premiums affordable and reduce cost-sharing.

Protecting consumers and reducing waste, fraud, and abuse. Fifth, the legislation will put the interests of consumers first, protect them from any problems in getting and keeping health care coverage, and reduce waste, fraud, and abuse.

:patriot:

because of whatever weird thing happened between Mr Waxmans website and my browser, my response changes as follows:

What is the "penalty" for employers? What is is for individuals? How will we decide who is eligible for "affordability credits".

What will this "new public health insurance option" be?

The answers to these questions will determine my reaction, whether it be one of complete disgust or one of moderate satisfaction.

I both refuse and am unable to afford private health insurance at this time. And I don't see costs going down without a stronger public option than seems palatable to most politicians. So, if the public option is hamstrung and stuck at the same price as our current private plans, I will be similarly unable to pay that cost. And, by the numbers I have seen, I will not be eligible for any of these affordability credit plans. I have a decent income, but am hamstrung by student loans. So then, potentially comes the question of the penalty. Will it be high enough to be effective? And if it is, how will I be able to pay it if i am unable to swing the payment for coverage?

What will the public option be? Will they be stuck with extra regulations to make sure they don't have any chance to undercut private insurance? If they are, how will that do any better than limit future cost increases?

Answer those, and I can answer the question in the OP in more than generalities.

people IN REAL LIFE are actually able to afford are miles apart.

For instance, in this thread, apparently under Massachusetts' mandatory insurance bullshit plan they think "1,400 dollars a month for a family of three making 70,000" is "affordable" Bull-fucking-shit! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8606167

That's more than ***10X more*** than a family of 3 or more pays per month in British Columbia, but the Canadian family pays NOTHING at point-of-service -- NO co-pays, and NO deductibles -- non, zero, zip, nada. And prescription meds are available at low cost.

To be fair, don't they pay a bit more in taxes?

They may pay a bit more in taxes on top of that that goes to healthcare costs, but no way in hell is it $1200-$1300 more per month.

The poor Massachusetts family gets stuck paying their "affordable" $1400 per month, plus God-knows-how-much-more on TOP of that in co-pays, deductibles, 20% co-insurance exorbitant prescription costs, and all that other crap, plus has to spend all kinds of time on the phone fighting with the insurance fuckers when they deny and screw up claims.

I'd rather pay my money to a government than a company anyway, but the idea of an affordable option really tickles my interest. Being honest, and short of a massive economic improvement, if we don't get a real public option that does something similar, I will likely end up in Canada before 5 years is up. I don't know how I could afford to stay, now that I have the option to go. I have the youth to be in good enough health, but my day is coming.