Do you know what's sad?

The President is getting all kinds of bad press because he's been too civil. What's wrong with Americans and the media? I just saw a segment on m$nbc to prove the point. He's too nice. :eyes:

Everyone would approve of President Obama more if he'd bash a few heads, or act more like a rethug?

I wish he'd criticize the rethugs more, call them out on their b.s., but I hope he doesn't lose his civility. I think he shows a distinct difference from the rethugs by being nice. Now he has to start disagreeing vociferously. But I don't want him to use rethug tactics either.

Hopefully we are better than them, because I sure don't want to be like them.

Hopefully like most people who are strong but who choose to be nice about it, he'll come up with a way that takes their power without making them lose face. It's the way diplomacy works and I believe he's truly diplomatic. This aspect of him tends to make me think he's giving them plenty of rope to hang themselves with. It's pretty obvious to me anyway, and it would really surprise me, no, shock me if he turned out to be as naive as he appears to be sometimes.

right now and until the vote on the Health Reform Bill, we'll LOSE.

We'll be morally right yet crushed under the jackboots of FOX and Friends, etc.

Oh well, at least when we pass unto the next world, we'll be sure to "inherit the earth."

is still on the table!

is considered a good thing. I do think Obama can be more forceful on what he wants and turn his back completely on the Rethugs but I never want him to be like them, ever. I don't want any Dem being like that.

And that's a good thing.

the guy is getting owned because of his inexperience.

We, at last, have an example of ADULT leadership in President Obama. He is an adult leader who is forced to deal with childish behavior.

The media depend on the adult v. children squabbles that keep them going. How could they survive with facts...... minus the drama? The conflict is what keeps them in business. If they don't have it, they create it. And are there any creators of conflict BETTER than the Republicans?

(The media and Republicans feed off of each other. Neither could survive without the other.)

* so those who want Plausible Deniability can sign-on with him and others who want an enemy can call him a "Liar" and make it stick for real.

He's not playing their fucking game and that pisses them off even more.


* he-whose-name-is-so-profoundly-disgusting-that-not-even-someone-who-will-say-fuck-and-shit-and-damn-and-any-and-all-other-manner-of-obscenities-will-NOT-say-it

he's more interested in playing nice with repuke assholes than in saving American lives

To the left and to people who *do* care about health care, it makes him seem as though his loyalty is to his elitist cronies.

To repukes, who will hate him undyingly until the end of his last term (probably in 2012 at this rate), it gives them ammunition to call him weak.

That leaves only the 5% or 10% or so of hardcore DLC-ish "centrist" neodemocratic loyalists who think he's doing the right thing.

He's pretty thoroughly screwed the pooch on this one. He has played a major role in ensuring that meaningful reform won't happen. 70% of Americans expected him to lead efforts to drastically change health care; he abandoned them early in this process, and they know it. 20% or so will hate him no matter what. It's hard to look good in polls when you only have 10% of the people left "with you."

brought it up and given himself this headache.

I don't even know how you could say that.

about his Senatorial, old-boy's-club desire for "bipartisanship."

Do you?

Don't confuse his campaign rhetoric with his actual record so far.

He didn't bring up the health care issue. It was there before he ever even ran for the Senate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8601541

snip//


This man is, like FDR, a genuine liberal, but also a serious politician. He is not interested in moral victories or noble defeats. He wants to win. What he’s figured out, however, is that—particularly after two full decades of Bush/Clinton/Bush wars—the American people feel more comfortable with a politician who appears to reach out to the other side, who gives them a chance to play ball. This works both as an electoral strategy and a governing strategy. He gave in a little on the stimulus, but just enough to keep the ball rolling. He could always come back for more, later if necessary.

What’s more, that concession strengthened the necessary narrative for this, far more significant one. And given that the Republicans have all but admitted that they are acting in bad faith—and their supporters are showing up at health-care meetings as if armed to fight the War of the Worlds, and spouting Nazi-style slogans—Obama can certainly go to the country and swear up and down that he gave this bipartisan thing every possible chance but these folks are, um, more interested in defeating him “than solving the health-insurance problems that Americans face every day.”

It also is clear that America will not get the real health care reform we deserve.

It also is clear that, despite your claim to the contrary, he can NOT come back for more, either on stimulus or on health care. He has lost the political momentum.

What you describe in the other thread is the triumph of politics over statesmanship.

assertions. If health care reform gets passed, watch how much political momentum he has. I know, you'll be disappointed, but that's too bad.

No one thought he'd ever succeed in winning the election either, until he did.

It was pretty clear he'd win the election from about midway through the primaries. Sure, he could have screwed it up. But he was clearly the front-runner from Iowa on for all but about three weeks after the repuke convention.

He has worked hard to find the lowest possible degree of deck chair rearranging that he thinks his base will let him call "reform." I think enough of us see through this that the kind of momentum he had in February or March will never come back. He has alienated much of his own base.

(This is the inevitable outcome for a right-center corporatist who relies on left-wing support; in order to be who and what he is, he MUST sever his connections with the left. After 30 years of disastrous neocon rule, the left is in no mood for more cynical "lesser-of-evils" triangulation by yet another neocon in Dem clothing. Unfortunately for Obama, the left is nearly half of his base. Strike one was escalation in Afghanistan and failure to exit Iraq. Strike two was devoting 90%+ of the "stimulus" to giveaways to banks, with zero reform attached. Strike three is health care.)

If, by some miracle, real health care reform is passed, I will be ecstatic, not disappointed. You see, I care about America and Americans, not about which politician "wins."

:patriot:

I'm not surprised you think he should. I, as usual, disagree.

like them.

White House may push through health care without Republicans

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/19/health.care/

Your constant put-downs of people who dare to think instead of blindly cheer are way out of line.

kill him, did you not?

And oh so sorry if you think that was a put-down. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. :cry:

if you want a vision of what the town hall screamers look like! :rofl:

And i quote, from you, so I guess I didn't get it wrong after all:

Sorry, but being civil to people who want you dead isn't smart.

Look up a couple of lines, I can't make it up!

You refuse to think, only cheering mindlessly (head up the ass).

It's easier to churn out pom-poms than rational thought.

Didn't happen during the primaries when they called him a traitor.. not going to happen now that they are calling him a Nazi... He will just go out on the stump and make these small-minded people look foolish. when Pres. Obama goes out and about and talks and eats a cheese burger or buys his kids ice cream, these idiots look more nuts to the majority of us because he's just a nice, normal man.

continues to be who he is no matter how many others call stupidly for him to be just like they are.

pushers who want him to be just like them:silly:

down in the mud where they want to drag him and where they excell. But he certainly should have his "Rove'er".

Witness Jon Stewart's total destruction of Willy Crystal and Betsy McCaughey.
Never raised his voice or said a bad word, and yet completely exposed them.

There is a difference between being civil, and helping them retain credibility (enabling).
Obama should be politely kicking their legs out from under them, not pandering to them.

How about being a bit more like Lyndon Johnson, then?

Certain things are just inescapable realities if one wants to win policy fights, rather than be a principled martyr for a cause.

to stand up and fight against the morons! Makes me want to cry how assholish some white people are!

politics is a blood sport, didn't Obama realize that?

in our debate too and we really don't want to go there. We're just smarter than that and we can outwit them if we put our heads together, than to get into their screaming matches. It's all about dignity. The GOP want us to believe politics is about werstle mania and that's simply chaos. President Obama is simply aiming for a higher level of discussion, and to work things out in the arena of ideas.