Right, Joe (Scarborough). Repubs. are innocent in this-it's the DEMS.' fault that the bill is

having problems passing. "The Dems. have 60 votes in the Senate and a huge majority in the House! If they can't pass it it's THEIR fault!"

What Joe is missing is that if the Repubs. hadn't gone out LYING about "socialism" and "govt. takeover" and "death panels" if this passes, we WOULD be able to pass this with 58 Dems. in the Senate and a couple Repubs. (since Kennedy and Byrd usually can't be there). To act like the Repubs. had nothing to do with this and that now the possible failure of Dems. to pass a bill (with a public option) is the Dems.' fault is a lie.

But YES the democrats ONCE AGAIN are the wusses that they are that are making this more difficult than it needs to be.

Like bad tasting medicine it comes a time when a parent has to act like one and force feed the child to getting better. This is one of those times.

but BECAUSE of that, there are now some "Blue Dogs" who are scared of not getting re-elected since their constituents are believing the lies. That's why we need to do this through reconciliation.

it was only a matter of time before Republicans picked it up and ran with it to create more division. It's all they've got, it's all they do.

But blaming Dems for the resulting chaos didn't originate from the right.

And honestly, a lot of the complaints the right made, I saw here at DU first. Specifically cutting Medicare, which someone posted within about 24 hours of the announcement of various savings universal health care will give to Medicare. They turned around and called them cuts, and after that the right started in.

wsws.org starts an enormous number of attacks on Democrats that the right picks up afterwards.

I didn't see those comments here. I defer to you. Thanks for the info.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6375048

Sure this is just a bitchy rant, but I've seen several criticisms of Democrats from liberal blogs that sound exactly like that Joe Scab nonsense.

thanks for that. I didn't see it before.

The lies are just boulders the pugs are rolling down the hill that Democrats created.

I think that things went awry in the original framing of the issue, and the initial offer in the negotiating process. If we had started with making sure our own team was lined up and ready to go, with a solid specific plan, I think there would not have been nearly the opportunity for these lies to be taken seriously. And if we had started from a demand for a single payer or even socialized health care system, the public option would be major compromise and a potential middle ground, rather than the idealistic goal that might have to be abandoned.

Edit to fix cut/paste problem

the support for the plan including the public option would not have fallen at all and would've even risen since the Dems. would've been able to get their message out instead of having to knock down lies constantly instead.

by leaving gaps in their defense and not having a coherent single plan ready to go, there would be no fertile ground for the lies to fall into in the first place.

Democrats are the initiators of this. They did not come to it unified, nor did they approach the arguments smartly or as a team. Instead, they allowed a situation where democrats are fighting democrats. The republicans are happy to throw in their two cents, but if the democrats were unified, it would have no effect.

Or, if you prefer, if the president had set out a specific plan, the Congress would have had a template to work from. Details would be tweaked and bartered around, but there would be one plan that we could point to whenever a lie was set forth. Instead, we have to look at half a dozen different comities and plans, none of which is is even settled on as a real option. As they say, the first draft of a document is the most powerful. And our first draft is 6 different bills times a thousand pages each.

If you have horse, there's not much point in arguing whether the right wheel is wobbly or not, you still aren't going anywhere.

:sarcasm:

The Dems should have known the Repugs were going to go out lying. We did. Keith & Rachel did. Malloy, Rhodes, Hartmann and Schultz all did. Why didn't they?

every Dem. vote and a few Repubs., too.

If Impeachment over a blow job didn't convince them, then certainly "Questioning the President in a time of War hurts the troops." should have at least fixed the tone deafness.

...but even reThugs know now they're not even needed.

Way to go DLC, you're hurting America and getting paid for it like good capitalist

I didn't need him to tell me
Its painfully evident.

EVER be a description of repubs. EVER.

He is being promoted by the Republican NBC war lords. Gregory is a big fat head. I do not watch Meet the Press nor This week with the idiot George. I am fed up with the nonsense they spew. I like Sunday Morning.

The Dems can do this by reconciliation if they choose.

All that's lacking thus far is the political fortitude.

What did anyone expect? That they'd up and change their stripes and become reasonable?

That they'd engage in a full and fair debate using actual facts and honest analysis?

That the corporate media would stop elevating their outright lies to the level or truthful statements?

Or stop promoting outlandish allegations while refusing to cover serious issues and responsible solutions?

Nope- that was all a given. Can't blame Republicans for that anymore than you can blame a crocodile for eating Fido, given half the chance.

Scarborough is a squinty eyed,beady eyed,lying ass,asshole with an anger management problem. I get just as angry looking at him as I do when I see Bush...