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EVIDENCE OF TAMPERING IN BUSH GUARD FILE AS RELEASED BY WHITE HOUSE...

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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 03:56 PM
Original message
EVIDENCE OF TAMPERING IN BUSH GUARD FILE AS RELEASED BY WHITE HOUSE...
EVIDENCE OF TAMPERING IN BUSH GUARD FILE AS RELEASED BY WHITE HOUSE... APPARENT DELETIONS AND CHANGES; ANOMALIES FOUND... Developing tonight... On one file, text appears to have been deleted and then retyped, but text doesn't line up; On another, text blacked out, possibly corrective tape...

http://www.rawstory.com/

IMO: Some times the Raw Story is like a leftie version of Drudge, but thought this interesting enough to post and maybe we should keep a watch on this.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. now if we could get the mainstream media to
jump on this as they do wiht Drudge,

REALLY...
SNICKER
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Unfortunately...
...ain't that the truth. If this had been about Kerry, IMO, we would have had breaks in regular programming to air the story.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. "now if we could get the mainstream media to jump on this "
hahahahaha....not during the days of the corporate whore media!

:-(
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Maybe it should be told to Drudge...Write it on his website where
he asks for stories...
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Doesn't seem to be more than a headline, as

you posted, at the site. Did you find an article about this there?
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Did not find this either...
...and wondered if anyone knew anything more. It seemed like such a huge splash, but thought it should be watched. If true, GWB hopefully would be toast. But like we have kind of said, the media would probably just ignore this.

I did read a post in the Campaign 2004 section, I think, about some questions on whether Bush's dental records were real. Seems like one of use looked at them very closely and wondered. Then I saw this on Raw Story and wondered...maybe the DUer on the dental records was on to something.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. If it is true the mainstream media will ignore it.
Also, haven't those documents been poured over by people here for years.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't that what the secretary that Dan Rather interviewed implied?
Edited on Sun Sep-19-04 04:59 PM by Dover
That the papers didn't look quite like the originals, but some of the content seemed the same?
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yep....
...I recall Knox saying somehing like that in the Rather interveiw.

I am getting a hinkey feeling that maybe something really is not on the up and up. LOL, we do know that, but maybe something will break on this. God, I hope so and I would hope it would just stick it to that asshole Bush to the max and give Kerry a HUGE boost in the polls.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. We really could use a breakthrough. It's been in the works all these years
Wouldn't it be spectacular if somehow, it becomes revealed that they DIDN'T have absolute control, after all, and the story comes through, DESPITE their efforts to suppress it.

No citizens should have the power to hide every bit of negative, unfavorable information about such an imperfect loon, while parading him around as God's gift to the right wing, a man entitled to rule the world, if they can swing it.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Bush* is just such a...
...fucking dishonest asshole and he has gotten away with covering up so much of his bull shit, I would just love to see his ass anailed to the wall for something that shows how dirty he is. I just wish something would break through. As I see Kerry, he is a good guy. He volunteered for VN, was a war hero, he saw the hell there, he came back and spoke out about it, got his education, served in the Senate, etc. And Golden Boy GWB fakes it and he is the one that way too many see as the good guy. Makes me want to hurl. WTF is WRONG with people?
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. The waters are so muddy
that even if this does turn out to be true I doubt it will go anywhere.

It's all turning into background noise at this point. NAd sadly enough it hurts Kerry more than it does Bush.

Negative crap about Kerry if it's false, hurts Kerry.
Negative crap about Bush if it's true hurts Kerry.

Go figure.

MzPip
:dem:
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. If true, it's scary, but somehow it will go un-noticed......
by the LIBERAL MEDIA

:eyes:
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. nah, someone will pick it up...

...if it turns out to seem true.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Up-Date:
Looks like this just added:

"STORY BY 6:30 EDT..."

That would be in less than an hour. Hmmmmm....maybe there is something breaking. I hope!
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. STORY IS LIVE.
thanks for reading. ;)
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. What do you mean?
Details, details!
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I mean the story is posted in full, yo! ;)
Check it out.
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick
Just want you to get a chance to read it, and to decide for yourselves.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. The text linked on Raw does show signs of having been whited out
and written over. It was altered. It might be difficult to prove that it was altered to hide information. It might just have been a sloppy job of typing.

When Rove accuses somebody else of doing something, it usually means he or shrub-boy did it themselves. Ergo, as soon as the WH accused Dan Rather of faking documents, I immediately suspected that the WH had faked documents themselves.

They've become so predictable.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. When did Michael Nesmith's mom invent White-out?
Was it during or after Vietnam?
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The Great Escape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. 1951...According to this link
Edited on Sun Sep-19-04 07:58 PM by The Great Escape
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mwhiteout.html

looks like it didn't really get ramped up till 1966
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cheshire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. Clinton did it while supposedly in hospital. That will be their stance.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. Direct link to the story:
http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=301

At least two documents in President George W. Bush’s Texas Air National Guard file show signs of tampering, RAW STORY can reveal.

The physicial anomalies in the documents, discovered by researcher Paul Lukasiak, suggest that changes were made to the documents after they were generated, perhaps to mask potentially embarrassing information about the President’s service.

This latest discovery concerns two records in Bush’s Guard file as obtained by a Freedom of Information act request in 2000. The first discrepancy is in the remarks section of the President’s discharge form, formally known as “Report of Separation and Record of Service.”
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. Read it.
The second set of documents is interesting (and see links within article).
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Scribbled out document series
Best circumstantial evidence to suggest that he was given LESS THAN AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE.

We know he did not fulfill his duties, but this shows that his claimed "Honorable Discharge" may have been FAKED.

Not final proof, but certainly quite suspicious.
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merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Isn't the guy that Rather wants to interview -Burkett
the one who says he witnessed some sort of destruction of B*'s Tang records?

They would have to destroy a "LESS THAN HONORABLE" discharge record

All of this just confirms what I always felt about him anyway he's just a useless piece of sh** with a famous name

I blame the media for not covering this more fully four years ago and while he was running for gov. and while he was gov.
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phish420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. trying to get through the blackness
on the second document, not only is it blacked out, it is heavily scribbled out...if you import the image into photoshop, and select the blacked out text, and go to Image>Adjustments>Brightness/Contrast, and mess with the levels, you can see that a pen was used to make small dark circles to block out the text BEFORE the black marker went through it....hard to read anything, but Ill keep working on it
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
29. Here's another document that looks like its been doctored....
Edited on Sun Sep-19-04 09:26 PM by Iceburg
Found this at http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/10-2_2000_Personnel_File.pdf ...its part of the official collection.
Looks like somebody cut & pasted over the top half of the document ... maybe trying to hide something underneath...
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. thanks -- will pass this on to paul
and see what he thinks -- he has a lot more experience with this stuff than I do.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. I don't know what those docs are
but when I had to photocopy tons of docs, shuffling stacks (boring work), sometimes the 'print' button was pushed when sheets were stacked/misaligned. I had to reach for my coffee sometimes, ya know.

The person was probly too damned lazy to look through the stack & throw away that 'reject'.

Sensible investigation is cool, but sometimes we seem to find a boogy-man behind every corner.

I see nothing suspicious about the graphic you post, doesn't look anything like 'cut & paste', just a copy of a bunch of sheets.
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. Aero rating is Plt on-fly with NR crossed out
What exactly is the meaning of that?

I assume NR would mean 'not-rated'.
Somehow the typed version of that NR was pencilled out and handwritten in is Plt On-Fly. As far as I am concerned that is a doctored up rating, and non-officail if it is handwritten over a croos-out. That just seems so bogus on its' face.
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phish420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. wasnt bush transferred right after suspension?
If so, that is probably what is blacked out in the second document - that he was suspended then transferred.
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. No -- he was suspended, effectually, retroactively in 73
Are you talking about the inactive status question, or? PM me if you think you know something I don't.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-19-04 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. white out did you say white out. remember his initial test score
Edited on Sun Sep-19-04 09:15 PM by seabeyond
the lowest grade one could get and make it in was 25. bush made it in at 25. but i read that was put on top of whiteout. so i figured his score was really lower than 25 and shouldnt have legitamely been allowed into national guard

no link, just remember reading
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Read this stuff! It's fascinating!
:kick:
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I really think there is something here...
Edited on Mon Sep-20-04 01:21 AM by Hepburn
...and the reason for this? Because of all of the crap that the Freepers drudged up about why the Killiam memos are fakes. I started looking at margins, and other things...and BINGO...it sure looks like someone altered these records. And I am thinking that there is much more to this tham meets the eye.

Edit for typo.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Kick!
:kick:
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Clinton Crusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. NO ONE will report this
They are 'document tired". Now with CBS supposedly coming out today saying they were duped, the sheeple will believe NO ONE but the WH. It would shock me into next week if the media picked up on ANY of this.

We'd have to post it on FR to get noticed, sadly. Otherwise we'd be 'desp. dems"

And I could be wrong, not enough coffee yet.
:kick:
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Nope, I agree.
But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying to get at the truth. Just so sad Rather and CBS fucked this one up so badly rushing to get the story out before Kitty Kelley's book.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-20-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
41. The *cabal has been
altering, stashing, redacting docs OHNE ENDE for GENERATIONS. Don't want any "retards" showing up in the family tree? Ink 'em out. DLs, SS#s, incriminating evidence? WHERE'S THE NEAREST SHREDDER??? TRUTH BE DAMNED. *dauphin is fronting for corporations whose stated goal is to control the world's resources. In the process of implementing their *plan, YOUR KIDS ARE BEING KILLED AND MAIMED, THE ATROCITIES YOUR *MILITARY HAS COMMITTED ARE RETURNING TO YOUR SHORES, MEANWHILE GUARANTEEING WELL-EARNED HATRED AND REVENGE, YOUR ECONOMY HAS BEEN WRECKED, YOUR COMMUNITIES' HEALTH, IN ALL SENSES, NEGLECTED, AND THE TALK OF THE DAY IS IBM SELECTRIC FONTS... :shrug:
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