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So why did Charlie Cook surface with claims that Dems are going to lose big in 2010? Clue: Mark Penn

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:39 PM
Original message
So why did Charlie Cook surface with claims that Dems are going to lose big in 2010? Clue: Mark Penn
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 08:44 PM by ProSense
Cook Report: Dems Have Lost Control Of The Debate

Now the full picture:

Two-thirds of Americans don't support the "public option" insurance plan in national health care reform proposals now before Congress, or they think it's something different than what it actually proposes.

Either way, it's bad news for President Barack Obama, who's facing the possible defeat of most or all of his administration's highest-priority goals -- health care reform -- and the increasing political ire of independent voters who helped elect him.

That's according to new polling done by Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates and political analysis by Washington columnist Charlie Cook, who spoke in Denver Tuesday night at an event sponsored by AARP.

The poll surveyed 1,000 Democrats, Republicans and independents nationwide earlier this month.

more

Mark Penn's company

Corporate sellouts!



edited for clarity.

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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mark Penn.
'Nuff said.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. What's his problem?
Is he just an asshole?
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Penn = whore
he will sell his mom for the right price.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. This does not make him unique. Trust me. nt
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Mark Penn isn't going to change his
fat overfed stripes.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Cook doesn't rely on just one pollster. He talks to them all. nt
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Agree. Cook is one of the best
I think Cook is as unbiased as anyone can be.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cook thinks a loss of 6 to 12 House seats is big....we lost 54 in 1994
The party in charge of the WH usually loses a few seats. Unless you declare all Dems unAmerican and win big in 2002 like Bush did...most of the time that does not happen.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. I've wondered where the voice is to counter Charlie. He's
the only one with 'insight'?

Seems real suspicious to me.
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Nobody else has a record close to his. He is respected on both left and right.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. And? He's "it"? If so, that's sad. nt
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Charlie Cook is not "it," but nor does he have an agenda
He is not Frank Luntz, who is paid to have things come out one way, and does his job with
an unimaginable enthusiasm. Charlie calls things as he sees them, which may or may not jive
with how others see them, or want to see them.

But for an analyst to not have a pre-conceived result these days is pretty remarkable in
itself, even if that doesn't guarantee infallibility any more than anything else, which
Charlie will be the first to tell you if you ask.

He also happens to be quite a nice guy (where Luntz is Uriah Heep).
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Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've never seen one big-name liberal suggest that Cook has an agenda
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 10:51 PM by Becky72
Not Greenwald, not Kos, not Olbermann, not Nate Silver, not anyone. I've seen Cook quoted in Salon.com, DailyKos and many other progressive outlets.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. He's a straight shooter. Ignore the OP. nt
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. President's party almost always loses substantially in mid-terms.
Happened to Reagan, happened to Bush (in 2006), happened to Clinton.
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Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. OP gives the false impression that Cook and Penn are polling partners
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 11:01 PM by Becky72
1) Penn had nothing to do with Cook's analysis of the seats gained/lost by either part in 2010. That's why the TPM link he gave us makes no mention of Penn at all. By the way, why would the very progressive Eric Kleefeld, who wrote the article feed his readers BS by quoting a flawed analysis?

2) Cook had nothing to do with Penn's poll on health care. He was in the AARP conference to provide his "analysis of the issue."

Let's not be in denial. Let's rather keep working to make things better.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
17. Cook came out with claims that the Democrats will lose seats in 2010
because history suggests strongly that the Democrats will lose seats in 2010. The party that controls the White House more often than not loses seats in the mid term election.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
18. We can lose 15 house seats and still gain in the senate.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. This statement is false: "Two-thirds of Americans don't support the "public option" insurance plan"
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. yeah, thats the lie that makes his intent clear.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. you have established no connection between Penn and Cook
that would leave one to suspect that Cook's analysis is biased -

outside of your Hillary hatred, well documented on this board, and the fact that Penn worked for HRC. Arguments rooted in hatred don't come off as rational and would tend to make one question your credibility overall, IMO.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes, I have: they are both sellouts.
He used the poll to justify is ludicrous predictions:

The new polling -- done by Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates -- was presented Tuesday night at an AARP-sponsored event in Denver, along with political analysis of the issue by Washington, D.C. columnist Charlie Cook.

The poll surveyed 1,000 Democrats, Republicans and independents nationwide earlier this month.

While the survey results suggest strong agreement among Americans that health care delivery and payment must change, there's much less agreement on whether the problem calls for coughing up higher taxes or insurance premiums.

The reason? It's the economy, Cook said.

Almost 65 percent oppose increasing taxes to pay for covering the more than 46 million Americans who are estimated to be without coverage of any kind, even though on other questions a majority said they believed all people should be covered. And 73 percent said they are unwilling to see private health insurance premiums rise to cover those costs.

The conflict highlights one of the essential reasons Obama and members of Congress who support reform are having a tough time selling it to the American public: the economy has everybody worried.

Cook, whose non-partisan Cook Political Report newsletter is closely watched by Washington insiders, said the polling data may be worse for the Democrats now than it was in 1993, when then-President Bill Clinton proposed a massive overhaul of health care and a year later, the Democrats were forced by voters to give up control of the U.S. Congress.

This time around, Cook said, with the president leaving it to Congress to hammer out specifics of the reform plan, "President Obama made the mistake of outsourcing major public policy to an institution that doesn't have a lot of credibility -- Congress."

Couple that with diminishing support for Obama from independent voters who were key to his election last year, and Cook said, "I don't know that there's an ending that the president is going to like."

more


Maybe you should spend less time questioning other people's credibility and try making an argument that doesn't involve whining about Hillary.


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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Charlie Cook is a sellout because he used a polling company
Mark Penn is associated with? That's a pretty tough argument to make - since you haven't even made the argument that the polling company in question is not legitimate. Charlie Cook is well respected as non-partisan, as several posters upthread have pointed out.

It seems to me that the points made by Cook are pretty obvious - that the economy is effecting the healthcare debate, and that the Democrats will probably lose seats in the midterm elections.

Cook, whose non-partisan Cook Political Report newsletter is closely watched by Washington insiders, said the polling data may be worse for the Democrats now than it was in 1993, when then-President Bill Clinton proposed a massive overhaul of health care and a year later, the Democrats were forced by voters to give up control of the U.S. Congress.

This time around, Cook said, with the president leaving it to Congress to hammer out specifics of the reform plan, "President Obama made the mistake of outsourcing major public policy to an institution that doesn't have a lot of credibility -- Congress."

Couple that with diminishing support for Obama from independent voters who were key to his election last year, and Cook said, "I don't know that there's an ending that the president is going to like."



He makes the point that perhaps Obama's strategy of leaving things to Congress was a mistake. Perhaps, instead of attacking the messenger, you might consider that he's correct. I realize that attacking the messenger is mostly what you do on DU, but have you ever stopped to consider that you might be wrong?


ps - what is with this constant abuse of posters who disagree with you?

"Whining"?




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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. Which pollsters are ok?
Gallup?
Rasmussen Reports?
NBC News?
ABC News/Wash Post?
Pew Research?
FOX News-LoL
Marist?
Zogby(Internet or Phone)?
CNN/Opinion Research?
Hotline/FD?
Democracy Corps?
CBS News?
Ipsos/McClatchy?
Associated Press/GfK?
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl?
ABC News/Wash Post?
CBS News/NY Times?
Quinnipiac?
Cook/RT Strategies?
Newsweek?
NPR - POS/GQR?
USA Today/Gallup?
National Journal/FD?
GWU/Battleground?
GWU (Lake/Tarrance)?
Time?
ARG?
PPP(D)?
Public Opinion Strategies (R)?
YouGov/Polimetrix?
Allstate/National Journal?
Harris (internet or other)?
Moore (R)?
SurveyUSA?
InsiderAdvantage?
Times/Bloomberg?
NCSC?

Are they all rigged? Does it depend on whether you like the results?
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