LIES in 2000, LIES in 2004, LIES in 2008, and to this DAY. Is this any surprise?

2000: The "Al Gore is a Liar" campaign
The rightwing compiled a whole list of comically ridiculous distortions about Gore, and "writers" (stenographers) at major, serious newspapers repeated the lies verbatim as fact (and then quoted each other -- "the echo chamber"). The Gore campaign reacted too late with too little, apparently thinking nobody could possibly believe such craziness and that if it's ignored, it will go away -- whereas if it's responded to, it could take over, drown out the campaign messages that had been carefully honed, and distract, pulling things off-track.

We just need to "get the truth out," past the media, right? But the horse had already left the barn before the campaign tried to lock the barn door. "Al Gore is a serial exaggerator" had taken hold, and it's hard to get the horse back into the barn.

(By the way, I am NOT saying that is all Al Gore's fault.)

2004: The "John Kerry is a Traitor" campaign
The rightwing managed to redefine a war hero as a traitor -- quite a feat indeed! The Kerry campaign responded as the Gore campaign had -- too little too late, and I think for the same reasons. (Who could possibly believe such lies? Don't feed them with attention - just stay on message.) Once again, the horse left the barn, and the campaign was REacting, trying to overcome something that was already out there.

(Again, I am NOT saying that is all John Kerry's fault.)

(2006 INTERIM: The "Vote for Democrats and Die" campaign" -- The answer to "What the HELL is it going to take before people freaking wake UP" question is answered at last: Near collapse of the economy, the military, foreign relations, and anything else you can think of. Democrats regain some real power.)

2008: The "Barack Obama is a Terrorist" campaign
The rightwing tried it, a lot of the media rejected it (especially compared with their compliance in 2000), Republicans had cooked themselves into burned toast, Obama was an awesome, compelling candidate, the campaign was on-target, the party was on message, and the lies were overcome in immense measure!!

Victory at last!! Forge ahead!!

2009: The "Health Care is BAD" campaign
Here we go again. Even with the White House and both houses of Congress -- and TEAMS of highly-paid career experts tackling every issue on every level -- Democrats are REactive, as thought this were a surprise.

Like, "What, are you kidding me? How could anybody possibly be convinced that something as obviously good as healthcare is actually bad?" Meanwhile, people are equating it with Hitler and murder. Nobody saw it coming, apparently --the horse is out of the barn running wild, Democrats are asking bewildered questions about how to close the door now, while a CORRUPT minority is successfully convincing a FEARFUL populace of outright lies, day after day after day.

(Once again, I am not saying this is all President Obama's fault.)

So...
WHY are Democrats still playing DEFENSE???

WHY are Democrats always REACTIVE, rather than PROACTIVE?? It doesn't take years of expertise or high salaries to anticipate that the opposition will mount an outrageous campaign and to set up the machinery to fight back, QUICKLY.

WHY are Democrats always VICTIMS?? "It's the media," "It's the idiots," "It's the money" -- No kidding! Here we are now, with all the power in the world (even literally, perhaps), with a historic number of people behind the president, against the rightwing, seeking change and hope... And WE are fighting "back:" -- against what??

What are the excuses, again? Rightwing radio? Willfully ignorant people? Are you kidding me???

(AGAIN, for the people with the hair-triggers, I am NOT blaming Barack Obama, the man, as solely responsible for all of this. It's a broad system, with many layers and calculations involving a lot of people. He is one person in this equation, who's tasked others with various jobs.)

HELLO!!! We aren't VICTIMS anymore! Our party holds THE Power nationally and internationally. Our Democratic president is THE Leader of the Free World. And we're whining about the power of Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin? We're surprised there are gullible people swayed by fear in this country, and can't overcome this? Our party leadership is clueless about how to "control the message?"

Our well-paid, experienced experts at the highest levels of power are caught playing defense, as though caught off-guard -- trying to put the horse back in the barn. Why was the door even left open? Are they really incapable of seeing the opposition's machinery and MO, from 2000, 2004, and 2008 (and years before those)? Is there any SURPRISE here??

I'm reaching a point of complete and total cynicism. I have to wonder whether the party is even trying to succeed at its stated goals. Either they are smart but not trying, or they're trying but not smart....

I believe they are smart.

(And I'd rather believe they aren't.)

They are the ones who generally get to decide what message gets out to the people, and low and behold what we get is Cheney, McCain, Rush, Coulter, Bachmann, Palin, and all kinds of lies.

We have no CHOICE but to be reactive because we're not the ones pushing the message. We've gotten better about it: I like Obama's approach to using the internet and other forums, as well as his ability to come out and state how/why the lies are false instead of trying to ignore them, but we're still reacting because they will always have the first blow.

Another more subtle aspect of this: look more closely at the polls. Most people still want reform, and a majority still support the details of this plan, but what we hear is the negative side of it, and how many of the things the people are against are outright fabrications. Seriously.

http://pollingreport.com/health.htm
Interesting polling: in the NBC poll, notice how a majority disapproves of Obama's health care plan, yet a larger majority says that major or complete overhaul is needed (39%, 21% respectively compared to minor or no changes), and when the plan currently on the table is actually described without all of the hype and fear mongering, a majority supports the plan, 53% to 43%.

So are people opposing the actual plan, or what they think is the plan?

Also, going along with what I see as the disinformation campaign, I notice that while most are unchanged by the townhall outbursts, slightly more people (19% v. 16%) have lessened support for Obama based solely on the townhallls! In other words, almost 20% of those polled were convinced this is a bad plan based on what they are hearing at the townhall disruptions: unrealistic fear of socialism, lies about death panels, delusional comparisons to Nazis, falsehoods about the plan helping illegal immigrants, higher taxes, etc.

Again, it appears that what people are opposing is not even the real plan, and a rather sad percentage of people are getting their information from unreliable sources. A lot of those polled actually think that the plan:

None of those things are even remotely true, yet almost half of respondents think they are true about the plan.

Now scroll down to FOX's version of the polls, which shows quite a jump from all of the others. Ok, enough comedy.

Anyway, I notice that within almost all of these polls, when you get down to the actual details of the bill, and more importantly to allowing people to choose a public option, a majority of people still seem to support that idea even when the same poll shows that a majority of people disagree with Obama's handling of the situation, and even when they are satisfied with their own insurance. A majority of people still want change, and a large majority still support the idea of a government health plan which competes alongside private insurance.

Anyway, I just found these polls to be interesting, and seeing the details says a lot more than a blanket statement of who approves/disapproves, especially when some of those who disapprove apparently seem to do so because not enough is being done for public health care, and a majority feel major changes are necessary and need to be done now.

A majority of people agreed with the policy positions of VP Gore and Senator Kerry when stated without names, as well. That's the power of the RW machine. My point is that WE now have the power! There's no excuse about victimization anymore. We have a compelling leader and teams of experts -- and they can't compete with this BS?!?

The polls you cite are what got me riled up today. How on EARTH could the Democratic party, and the administration in the White House in particular, have let the horse out of the barn to this extent?!?

On DU, the response was generally a range of excuses, and defenses of Obama on a personal level.

It's really inexplicable to me. None of this is a surprise!!!

The game is OBVIOUS. When we were in the losing position, all the reasons for it were clear. Just get Democrats back in power!! Both houses of Congress, too!!

Now?? It's all about some idiots on the right?? NO. The battles about persuasion are battles about money, on levels we can't even fathom, and Democrats are involved to extents I never believed before.

Color me disenchanted.

but we don't own the media, nor should we. The problem is the opposition does own the media, and sadly "who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

It's a classic case of Garbage In: Garbage Out.

They screwed us ROYALLY in 2000; to a significant degree in 2004; but what they're doing now is nothing compared with those. We actually have outlets speaking the truth, and there are actual, for-real debates going on.

Further, we have NEVER had all this power during all that time, nor such a public will as reflected less than a year ago.

We're down to NO EXCUSES. (Personally, I"m down to major disillusionment.)

mainly on the internet and a couple of pundits here and there. I'm not making excuses, I'm just calling it as I see it, that the media and their corporate sponsors, along with the more conservative wing of the Democratic Party, are going to do what they can to curtail our power, as will the loudmouths on the right.

I'm not saying the media is the only reason we sometimes fail to get things done, but I am saying that the right outflanks us with their lies through the complicity of the media. Everything you mentioned above was floated by the media without question, and in the past we did not react quickly enough. We are reacting much more quickly than before, but you cannot preemptively dismiss a lie before you know what it will be, can you?

We need to learn how to play OFFENSE.

Just consider health care.

They spew outright lies and they get traction. We appear as fools, refuting yet propelling them. Their lies paint vivid pictures: Nazi America. Waiting lines at hospitals. Meetings of Death Boards thumbing grandma up or down.

Web need to paint equally or more vivid pictures of what America would be like with universal health care. And we're just not good at that.



This is NOT about facts.

It is about viscerally affective concepts.

there's a problem with that too. There are two ways to play offense: we could present our image of the positive effects of our cause, which I do agree we need to do, and the other is to play dirty the way they do and make up things about the opposition.

The second option is repugnant, and I would not support that.

The first is noble and gets our message out, but does nothing to stop the opposition from starting it's well-funded and many-channelled lie machine, which means we're back to playing defense. in fact, what you are describing is kind of what the OP was complaining about: ignoring the lies and sticking to message.

What I am trying to say is that unless we can foresee what tack they are going to take and without a sympathetic media of our own, we have no choice but to play defense. This is not just complaining or making excuses, this is being fully aware of what we have to combat.

Yes, we need viscerally effective concepts, BUT those won't stop them from making up some bullshit, which the news will gladly spread for them, will it? Ignoring the power that the media has - it's basic propaganda, and will directly influence how people react to ANY issue, visceral effectiveness or not - has been our downfall time and time again.

By playing by the rules and being honest about our claims, we're at a "disadvantage" to those to can and will lie and distort and break the rules. It's just the nature of the game. That doesn't mean we have to let them get away with it at all, just that we can't ignore that fact.

Given where we find ourselves these days, I am perfectly okay with dirty tactics.

I don't mind disagreeing with someone; I can't stand when they scream, use lies, and dirty tricks to try to make their points.

I'm not against calling them on their bullshit, but I don't see that as a dirty tactic, just a well-developed defense. I guess for me, it is like martial arts: I prefer to use my opponent's momentum (and mistakes) against them. I don't need or want to 'strike first' but it helps to understand their strike if I want to effectively block and neutralize their attack.

In other words, I don't see defensive maneuvers as being weak because they can be just as effective if not more so, and are definitely more morally justified. In fact, a well-executed defensive move can disarm and outwit a larger opponent quite effectively.

I do get frustrated sometimes with the Democrats when they get in their nice guy mode, but I also respect the idealism of Obama trying to be diplomatic and nonpartisan. He's not a fool. I think he knows what he's doing, and I think he does not expect them to accept his outreaching hand. Maybe I am wrong, but I think he's not doing a bad job, even though I disagree with quite a few of his stances on various issues.

" my problem with dirty tactics is that we then become what we hate about them "

How many times have I heard, these exact words over the years, I can't recall. But we have all heard "Nice gus finish last" too. Remember the Clinton Impeachment? The President was attacked and we as a party were too over and over, yet when Republican office holder does something similar they are given a free pass, not all but most..We all know Bush led us into a war we lost thousands of our son's and daughter's, not to mention our economy takned in the process. and still our leaders drag their feet saying we need to put this behind us and get on with the business of running our country...I keep praying we will elect more people who will be willing to fight for what is right.

What I was referring to was not the ability to be strong or to take a stand.

I was saying I see no point in playing dirty: breaking rules, lying, being a loudmouthed asshole, etc. If I wanted to be any of those things, I'd be a Republican.

There is a difference. Being able to see and try to understand your enemy is not a weakness, and cheating to win is not a sign of competence.

That is what is necessary to break this technique of the enemy.

Always an honor, Sir.

I agree that our office-holders should use the words "lie" and "liar" publicly -- no doubt. However, I think you point to a symptom of the problem rather than a cause of it.

When in the world are we going to get into those states with the facts when we have a tough fight ahead of us.

Whatever they put in our way shouldn't even BE a "tough fight."

The people in those states aren't getting the facts. That's why their Democratic legislators are so difficult to deal with. Until we start with massive education campaigns in Blue Dog states, we're going to have a horrible time passing anything of substance.

and the corporate interests who fund them against the people who elected them to their offices.