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It's Obama's style. Haven't you learned that yet?

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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:43 PM
Original message
It's Obama's style. Haven't you learned that yet?
When Hillary was attacking Obama, there were some (or many) who were shouting at Obama, "YOU GOTTA ATTACK BACK! SHE'S ATTACKING YOU! YOU'RE GONNA LOSE THE NOMINATION!" He did NOT attack and won the nomination.

When McCain and Palin were attacking Obama, there were some (or many) who were shouting at Obama, "YOU GOTTA ATTACK BACK! THEY'RE ATTACKING YOU! YOU'RE GONNA LOSE THE ELECTION!" He did NOT attack and won the election.

Now in this health care battle, there are some (or many) who are shouting at Obama, "YOU GOTTA GROW A SPINE! YOU'RE GONNA LOSE THIS! YOU'RE BEING TOO NICE TO THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO KILL HEALTH CARE REFORM!" I'M betting he knows what he's doing and he WILL get it done, he'll come through once again, he'll win back his base, and the doubters will be proven wrong AGAIN.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. ding ding ding K ding ding ding & ding ding ding R ding ding ding
:thumbsup:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks, dionysus!
I like how you K&Red my post! :D :hi:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. why thank you jen. here's an extra
*ding*
:hi:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:48 PM
Original message
Thanks again...
you made my day. :D
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. They're a lost cause.
If they haven't learned by now, they never will.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I guess so...
and "they" include some great liberals like Helen Thomas and Ed Schultz. I'm surprised.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. "great" is subjective.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Maybe I should've called them "well-known." n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Maybe well known journalists.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
97. Of course
Helen Thomas must be a mediocre liberal and mediocre journalist then eh?

Gimme a break.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. hey, as for Ed, a lot of people bought this rumour he was some kind of fake dem...
he's sure a firebrand liberal now!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I don't know where they got that from...
as long as I've been listening to him, he's been the same.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
75. i think randi rhodes started the rumour that he was a fake and only in it for the $$$
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #75
87. Really? I loved listeing to Randi. I never heard her talking about Ed. n/t
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. they were at some radio convention or something. i like randi too but
she did\does have some kind of beef with ed...
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Oh. I missed that...
I haven't listened to her since she was fired from Air America. I never heard her beef with Ed.
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Grown2Hate Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. I disagree. If we're able to pass MEANINGFUL health care reform, I think
many will be won over. But then, I'm an eternal optimist. :)
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. You are also the problem. This is not for Obama to lose. We will!
Will Obama this, and will Obama that. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE must take up the fight, or we have already lost. He can act all dignified all day long. WE, however must show the spine.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. He can act all dignified all day long?
Hmm.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Good catch.
Hmmmmm...
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Well, then...
"WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" need to be as fired up as the RWers are instead of being all disappointed and giving up on him.
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Yeeeeaaahhhhhhhwwwwww, as the good doctor once said.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. i'm surprised you didn't say "eloquent" or "clean"
:rofl:
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
77. Gman2, your slip is showing

"act all dignified all day long"


.... you're right. He should be working in the White House kitchen, with the rest of the black folk.
:sarcasm:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
93. You left out "uppity"
That's ok. We knew what you meant.

Sadly.

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skorpo Donating Member (300 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. I pray you're right. n/t
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. I still wonder how people think he's clueless about Repubs feelings toward him
They're dogwhistling for their minions to take up arms against him.

Death threats are at an unprecedented high.

Congressional Repubs have openly admitted to wanting to break him.

People don't think he KNOWS this?

I laugh a little about all this editorial advice to him to stop attempting "bipartisanship" as if he's some newbie who has never met these people before in his life thinking he can win them over.

And I remember what he said during the campaign: "I may not throw the first punch, but I will throw the last."
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Same here...
If he was as naive as so many seem to think he is, how do they explain him getting to where he is today?

And yes, I remember that quote, too. I believe and trust him.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
59. Yep, and he also said the following...
“That is why those who are betting against this happening this year are badly mistaken," Obama said. "We are going to get this done. We will reform health care. It will happen this year. I’m absolutely convinced of that.”

Given his track record so far, I ain't betting against him.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
94. He's not wrapped in cotton in a sound proof booth...
Like W was. He knows what's going on.

What is it with people who can't grasp the fact that Obama is intelligent and in control? :shrug:

He wrote his own playbook, and it ain't W's.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. I know you're right jen. That's not how he rolls but for once,
I'd like to see some fire. He's going to get it done. No doubt in my mind. I just want to see the fire.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I have no doubt you want to see the fire...
judging by your nic. ;) We've all seen him fired up. I'm sure we'll see that-but not in a vindictive, angry way-more like a determined way.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #23
78. Yeah, like Ted Kennedy! He was 'FIRE!!' LOL!! n/t
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
91. I'd rather see the policy become law than the fire. (nt)
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. I certainly hope you are right.
You have not, however, assuaged my fears.

:dem:

-Laelth
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Well,
if I can't assuage your fears, I don't know what else I can say. Sorry? :shrug:
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. There's no need to apologize.
I am happy for you that you are hopeful.

:dem:

-Laelth
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. Yep, not only is it strategically BRILLIANT, and inclusive of many views, it's shows us that he's...
.

...One Cool Cat!

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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I can tell from that pic
that he knew he'd be president one day. He was THAT cool!
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
25. I know this...
Thank you for the reminder. I have started getting impatient. :)
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Good...
I'm glad I could help. :hi:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. Standing strong for the principles of the party does not equal "attacking"...
I hope Congress is inspired enough by Senator Kennedy's legacy to do the right thing ~ there has been little leadership from the President on this one.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. The Congress is on vacation. He is always one to be calm and to look like he's NOT
standing strong (like against Hillary-when she was attacking him and people thought he wasn't standing up for himself-but he beat her anyway HIS way), but in the end, he wins. His leadership style may not be to your liking, but it works.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I guess "it works" if you like caving to Republicans and corporate thugs. nt
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. He's NOT caving to them. You really don't get it, do you? n/t
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Do you like that backroom deal with the drug companies...
...the one Waxman is fighting??

I don't.

Do you like that the WH never put single payer on the table??

I don't.

Do you like that the prez is hangin' out with Robert Wolf on MV? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x475185

I don't.


Yep, I get it.

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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. It wasn't a backroom deal.
It was out in the open.

The WH never said they WOULD put single payer on the table.

I don't mind. They've been friends for years.

You don't get it. Or you just don't WANT to get it.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. You'll never convince me that it's peachy keen for the president to surround himself...
Edited on Wed Aug-26-09 08:06 PM by polichick
...with corporate hacks and bend over for Republicans. I don't care if Obama never said he would put single payer on the table ~ universal healthcare for all is a principle of this party. It's what Senator Kennedy worked for and what the people want, not to mention the best way to save money. The reason it wasn't on the table is because of the influence of the healthcare industry on this administration and the Blue Dogs in Congress. (Remember Rahm trashing progressives for targeting Blue Dogs in ads?)

You suggest in this thread that people want Obama to "attack" ~ nobody has said that. We want him to stand for the principles of the Democratic party without flinching, to stand up for what's right and just, to LEAD.

imo you are very much in denial.

All that said, the passing of Senator Kennedy may very well inspire enough Congresspeople to get a decent bill through. That would be great!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. You'll never convince ME that he's doing those things. You seem to have not understood
my posts. The Congress is on VACATION-Obama did not "bend over for Repubs." because there is no bill yet. If he signs a bill without a public option, THEN you can say that. Ted Kennedy wanted a bill with a strong public option. We'll see what bill is signed.

I did not say people want Obama to attack anyone over health care. I said they wanted him to attack back at Hillary and McCain/Palin. You should read my OP again.

We'll SEE who's in denial.

Yes, it would be great.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #45
81. People didn't want Obama to "attack" back then, just to stand up to them...
imo he was much more passionate and clear about issues when campaigning than he has been the last couple of months. Ted Kennedy was demonized by many because he stood strongly for Democratic principles ~ Obama will have to give up the idea of being liked by everyone if he is going to LEAD. The other side doesn't have to like him to respect him. Right now he looks weak and they're taking advantage of that, disrespecting him openly. I hope he comes back ready to fight, with the mandate of the people behind him.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #81
95. He's giving them enough rope...
And the opportunity to do the right thing.

He won't keep this up much longer. Mark my words.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Yeah...
I noticed. :hi:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
80. Look in the mirror - you use personal attacks whenever a poster...
...disagrees with the president's tactics ~ the "negativity" and "idiocy" is yours.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. Bingo Jen.. right on the money... It is his style.. and it works for him and us
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Thanks, Peacetrain.
:hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. Yes, it does work me...
President Obama knows what he's doing. The job we elected him to do.

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. This is another excellent time for me to yell at everyone to...
..... WATCH THE VIDEO!!!!!

POTUS is at the 14 min mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdrXh7wunMM
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #35
102. The negative people need to watch this tape
At least hear the President before they condemn him.

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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
37. We'll see!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I certainly hope for the country's sake that you are right and
Obama will eventually come out strong for a public option. So far he has been missing; it is getting very late. His absense may be deadly. If no STRONG public option, we are better with nothing this time around.
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dolphindance Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. This is how I feel. Obama is an a-political liberal.
President Obama decides he wants to achieve a certain goal. Usually, that goal falls somewhere in the left/left-of-center sphere.

To achieve this goal, Obama will accept help from anyone, anytime. He doesn't care if they are Democrat or Republican. Or if they are religious / secular. Or if they are shills for big business or not.

If they have a skill or an idea which will move the process forward, he will welcome them.

He will not hold a grudge if it will get in the way of getting things done.

Obama wants "liberal" things for this country, but he won't necessarily work only with liberals to see them through.

His main thing is a government that WORKS and is not deadlocked in tired arguments. If people see that the government is delivering on something, then MAYBE the entire mood of this country will change and we can get MORE later.

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. That's about right
People are looking for an ideologue and he ain't that.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. +1
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. No they haven't..and neither has
Helen Thomas..but, it makes it great thread for all those "show some spine" idiots to jump on and whine en masse.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
41. Can't rec this enough
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. Thanks, HopeOverFear!
:hi:
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
43. Obama most certainly did attack McCain.
Edited on Wed Aug-26-09 08:11 PM by burning rain
Remember "the last eight years" rhetoric and Obama slamming McCain for having been a loyal supporter of Bush, just for starters. Obama's was a tough, fighting campaign. I'll tell you how nice guy Democrats roll--straight into the ditch, like those nice guys Mike Dukakis and John Kerry.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. He did but not as vicoulsy as McCain attacked him
Edited on Wed Aug-26-09 09:41 PM by SpartanDem
and the many in the liberal punditry didn't think it was enough. Rachel Maddow comes to mind it was almost daily Obama is being too nice, McCain getting the upper hand, why doesn't fight more, please talk me down.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. There was that period of about a month or so,..
after McCain unleashed his stupid "celebrity" attack on Obama (which seemed like pusillanimous pique over the fact that he, McCain inspired no-one), when Obama got all wonky all the time, relentlessly showing that he was a substantive guy. But that left plenty of time to attack McCain later.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
53. The debate has become unfocused and this has fueled the conspiracy theories and false info. nt
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Things are turning around. And Obama is not naive. He knows exactly who's against him
and what to do (which is what he's doing now). I bet he'll give an address from the Oval Office and kick it into high gear very soon.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #54
65. He's still a Jedi knight, ten steps ahead.
I hear all the advice and warnings from the left wing, as well as all the scary predictions of doom from the right wing. And I think--small minds. Small minded thinkers who aren't tuned in to Obama's wave length.

He's brilliant--never forget. I think he's deliberately waiting until the right wing blows itself out a little more, waiting until September to bring out his real push.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
56. If he gets it done, and done right, I will eat a plate of the most delicious crow imaginable.
Until then, most signs point to the public option being negotiated away weeks ago, IMO.
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. Red Meat for the Base Or Make The Effort To Reach Consensus
I think President Obama believes that over the long term, the American people generally like to see their Presidents remain above the fray, rather than engage in bitter partisan attacks.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
58. Unfortunately, the doubters in this instance are correct
Getting domestic legislation through requires entirely different strategies and tactics than messing around with Hillary.

And btw: the Obama campaign almost BLEW the election through their timid behavior and pandering all summer long. They allowed themselves to be defined- and failed to frame the issues. That's how the weakest and most inept Republican ticket in the past 100 years was AHEAD in the polls until the financial meltdown.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. LOL! The strategy is the same...
you give the opposition enough rope to hang themselves before you step in and finish the job. Worked during the primary, will work this time as well. I am not surprised you don't recognize that given your previous posts on anything related to President Obama.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. It's a losing "strategy"
based on previous instances- and there are tons of them, where it hasn't worked.

Democrats keep at it though, and losing policy fights- because they're too stupid to pay attention to scientists like Lakoff and Westen, who know how persuasion works in real life.

Ironic, isn't it? The supposed party of science ignores and fails to employ the very principles the cognitive scientists tell them to, time and time again.

That- coupled with the lack of discipline and inability to twist arms and do tit for tat stands to yield poor results here yet again, unless the leadership wisens up.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. He hasn't lost using it so far....
whereas others have repeated lost in not recognizing it. Obama, lest you forget, learned the lessons of how to get things done, aka strategies, as a community organizer and he learned them VERY well.

Persuasion, in real life, works the same. You work to convince those who are open to change while strategically leading those who willfully obstruct toward their own self-destruction before you step in and complete the job.



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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. I don't know what you'd call the bogus credit card bill- or having revenue sharing axed
from the stimulus.

What works well in foreign policy or against Hillary isn't going to get the job done on the domestic policy front. Completely different game requiring a different style to succeed.

The PolicySpeak Disaster

PolicySpeak is the principle that: If you just tell people the policy facts, they will reason to the right conclusion and support the policy wholeheartedly.


PolicySpeak is the principle behind the President's new Reality Check Website. To my knowledge, the Reality Check Website, has not had a reality check. That is, the administration has not hired a first-class cognitive psychologist to take subjects who have been convinced by right-wing myths and lies, have them read the Reality Check website, and see if the Reality Check website has changed their minds a couple of days or a week later. I have my doubts, but do the test.

To many liberals, PolicySpeak sounds like the high road: a rational, public discussion in the best tradition of liberal democracy. Convince the populace rationally on the objective policy merits. Give the facts and figures. Assume self-interest as the motivator of rational choice. Convince people by the logic of the policymakers that the policy is in their interest

But to a cognitive scientist or neuroscientist, this sounds nuts. The view of human reason and language behind PolicySpeak is just false. Certainly reason should be used. It's just that you should use real reason, the way people really think. Certainly the truth should be told. It's just that it should be told so it makes sense to people, resonates with them, and inspires them to act. Certainly new media should be used. It's just that a system of communications should be constructed and used effectively.

I believe that what went wrong is (a) the choice of PolicySpeak and (b) the decision to depend on the campaign apparatus (blogs, Town Hall meetings, presidential appearances, grassroots support) instead of setting up an adequate communications system.

What Now?

It is not too late. The statistic I've heard is that over 80% of citizens want a public plan, but the right wing's framing has been overwhelming public debate, taking advantage of the right's communication system and framing prowess.

The administration has dug itself (and the country) into a hole. At the very least, the old mistakes can be avoided, a clear and powerful narrative is still available and true, and some powerful, memorable, and accurate language should be substituted for PolicySpeak, or at least added and repeated by spokespeople nationwide.

The narrative is simple:

Insurance company plans have failed to care for our people. They profit from denying care. Americans care about one another. An American plan is both the moral and practical alternative to provide care for our people.

The insurance companies are doing their worst, spreading lies in an attempt to maintain their profits and keep Americans from getting the care they so desperately need. You, our citizens, must be the heroes. Stand up, and speak up, for an American plan.

Language

As for language, the term "public option" is boring. Yes, it is public, and yes, it is an option, but it does not get to the moral and inspiring idea. Call it the American Plan, because that's what it really is.

The American Plan. Health care is a patriotic issue. It is what your countrymen are engaged in because Americans care about each other. The right wing understands this well. It's got conservative veterans at Town Hall meeting shouting things like, "I fought for this country in Vietnam, and I'm fight for it here." Progressives should be stressing the patriotic nature of having our nation guaranteeing care for our people.

A Health Care Emergency. Americans are suffering and dying because of the failure of insurance company health care. 50 million have no insurance at all, and millions of those who do are denied necessary care or lose their insurance. We can't wait any longer. It's an emergency. We have to act now to end the suffering and death.

Doctor-Patient care. This is what the public plan is really about. Call it that. You have said it, buried in PolicySpeak. Use the slogan. Repeat it. Have every spokesperson repeat it.

Coverage is not care. You think you're insured. You very well may not be, because insurance companies make money by denying you care.

Deny you care... Use the words. That's what all the paperwork and administrative costs of insurance companies are about - denying you care if they can.

Insurance company profit-based plans. The bottom line is the bottom line for insurance companies. Say it.

Private Taxation. Insurance companies have the power to tax and they tax the public mightily. When 20% - 30% of payments do not go to health care, but to denying care and profiting from it, that constitutes a tax on the 96% of voters that have health care. But the tax does not go to benefit those who are taxed; it benefits managers and investors. And the people taxed have no representation. Insurance company health care is a huge example of taxation without representation. And you can't vote out the people who have taxed you. The American Plan offers an alternative to private taxation.

Is it time for progressive tea parties at insurance company offices?

Doctors care; insurance companies don't. A public plan aims to put care back into the hands of doctors.

Insurance company bureaucrats. Obama mentions them, but there is no consistent uproar about them. The term needs to come into common parlance.

Insurance companies ration care. Say it and ask the right questions: Have you ever had to wait more than a week for an authorization? Have you ever had an authorization turned down? Have you had to wait months to see a specialist? Does you primary care physician have to rush you through? Have your out-of-pocket costs gone up? Ask these questions. You know the answers. It's because insurance companies have been rationing care. Say it.

Insurance companies are inefficient and wasteful. A large chunk of your health care dollar is not going for health care when you buy from insurance companies.

Insurance companies govern your lives. They have more power over you than even governments have. They make life and death decisions. And they are accountable only to profit, not to citizens.

The health care failure is an insurance company failure. Why keep a failing system? Augment it. Give an alternative.

The Needed Communication System

A progressive communication system should be started. It should go into every Congressional district. It should concentrate on general progressive ideas. President Obama has articulated what these are.

• The basic values are empathy (we care about people), responsibility for ourselves and others, and the ethic of excellence (making ourselves better and the world better).

• These values form the basis of democracy: It's because we care about our fellow citizens that we have values like freedom and fairness, for everyone, not just the powerful.

• From that, it follows that government has two moral missions: protection (of consumers, workers, the environment, the old, the sick, the powerless; and empowerment through public works; communication, energy, and water systems; education; banks that work; a court system: and so on. Without them, no one makes it in America. Taxes are what you pay for protection and empowerment by the government, and the more you make the greater your responsibility to maintain the system.

Appropriate language can be found to express these values. They lie at the heart of all progressive policies. If they are out there every day, it becomes easier to discuss any issue. This is what it means to prepare the ground for specific framings.

The Culture War is On! You Can't Ignore it

President Obama wants to unify the country, and he should. It is a noble idea. It is the right idea. And he started out with the right way to do it. Campaign for what you believe -- for empathy, social responsibility, making the nation better. Activate the progressive values in the many millions of Americans who have some conservative values and some progressive values.

But also inhibit the radical, harmful conservative ideology in the brains of our countrymen, by directly saying what's wrong with it. Yes, there are villains. They have a very potent communications system and can organize their troops. Every victory makes them more powerful. They have put together powerful narratives. We need more powerful ones.

Much more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/the-policyspeak-disaster_b_264043.html
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. Those are merely the opinions of one person to whom, you obviously...
Edited on Thu Aug-27-09 12:38 AM by Spazito
look to for direction, they are not proof of failure of Obama's strategy at all and to cite them as being such is ridiculous, imo, and have nothing to do with the subject at hand, that being the success, so far, of Obama's strategy in defeating his opponents.

Edited to provide a missing "s".
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. No- those are applications of scientific principles
shared by many if not most who study how mass communication and persuasion work.

There's another angle too on how Obama's style is lacking in this context:

The argument against Obama and any health plan that increases government intervention fits into a well-worn story line that gained its greatest power under President Reagan, said Drew Westen, an Emory University professor of psychology and psychiatry who wrote "The Political Brain: The Role of Emotion in Deciding the Fate of the Nation."

"The anti-healthcare reform argument fits into a really well-branded theme from Reagan," Westen said in an interview, "that Democrats never met a government program they didn't like or a tax they didn't want to raise."

Westen became a favorite of Democratic audiences during the last election for his argument that the party had been too passive, letting Republicans seize the visceral arguments that tend to move voters.

Obama has had little to say about Republican-driven deregulation and the economic calamities that followed an over-reliance on free markets, Westen said.

"Roosevelt never missed the chance to remind people it was the Hoover Depression," Westen said, "or to say that was what happens when you have powerful moneyed interests with no real control placed over them."

The political theorist argued that by refusing to name the plan's real adversaries -- including Republicans and health insurance firms and pharmaceutical companies -- Obama has denied himself the antagonists that would help him tell the healthcare story to the public and the press.

"People are anxious and angry -- over the economy, over losing their jobs and home foreclosures -- and the Democrats have refused on principal to define what people are angry about and what is making them anxious," Westen said. "You couldn't have asked for a better bonanza for the Republicans.

"It's become more and more clear that one of Obama's greatest strengths, his cool under fire, is also one of his greatest weaknesses, because he is incapable of empathizing with the anger of the American people."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/healthcare/la-et-onthemedia26-2009aug26,0,4419688.column


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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Visual aid:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. You respond with more opinions and a cartoon....
as opposed to factual refutations worthy of debate. It is quite humorous nonetheless.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. Seems as though some Americans can't distinguish opinion from principles and applications
Edited on Thu Aug-27-09 01:27 AM by depakid
Not sure what you want regarding "facts" -`straight up, peer reviewed social science literature? There's plenty of that in both authors' books- or on university databases.

And ironically, the party of fundamentalists understands how to use it to win policy fights- whereas the party of science doesn't.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #58
83. True that there's a difference between running and governing
Bipartisanship sounds good during a campaign, but having it when President, especially with the Repukes, is a different story. I think we know there could be better communication and more specific goals on health care. But, we don't know what the final bill will look like. I can't judge Obama yet.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
60. Exactly why I'm not losing any sleep over HCR right now
Unfotunately, the memories of last year's election seems to have receded quite a bit around here. I think a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised once this whole thing is over.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
62. Sorry, that is just wishful thinking.
He is LOSING the debate to the Republicans. His own party is retreating behind him. The Democrats have no confidence, no sense that they're going to win.

This has been a failure of party leadership.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #62
84. I don't think so.
He was "losing" to Hillary and McCain, too, in the opinion of many who didn't like his style. McCain was raising about as much money as Obama at one point. The Dems. were losing confidence. Then, when the timing was right-BAM! He did what he had to do to turn it around and win. And he'll do it again.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
70. CHICKEN CHICKEN CHICKEN!
Some folks do not progress beyond schoolyard taunts. They become political hacks.

Others become president.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
73. I hope you are right. What will a successful health care bill look like to you? nt
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
74. LMAO! Short memory. He did attack back.
Edited on Thu Aug-27-09 03:44 AM by LittleBlue
This is a Rah Rah thread with no factual basis. He did get tough with both Hillary and McCain on healthcare reform.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/04/campaign.wrap/?eref=rss_topstories

The people who rec'd this thread simply demonstrate that their memories are very poor. It's quite sad, really, because it reminds me of the Dittoheads.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #74
85. Your article is from Oct. 4th...
a month before the election and looong after people were yelling at him to attack. He kept his cool. In the final stretch, (which has yet to come in this case) he hit back with facts. He is NOT naive. When the time comes, he'll drop the Mr. Bipartisanship label and do what has to be done to get a health care reform bill done. You'll see.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #74
101. This thread is aimed at the posters who were certain he was not doing so
At the time.

Obviously whether there is an "attack" is a matter of opinion in all cases.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
76. But at what cost?
Obama is no longer campaigning for the White House - he's there. And if the final reform package contains a 30% return for Big Insurance and no decent public option, then Obama has lost the war for healthcare reform.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #76
86. People are acting like they KNOW Obama won't get a bill with a public option...
and are accusing him of being weak. He's following the same pattern he's obviously followed his whole political life-and he'll come through in the end.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
79. Obama will get a health care reform bill passed, but...
...will it be a bill which we like?

Will it be a bill which the general public (mandated to buy health insurance for the first time, except in MA which already has a mandate) will like?
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
82. He's always been about building the largest possible coalitions.
While this unfortunately means that the final bill won't be very progressive, I am confident that something smelling much like reform will pass.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
90. Ding Ding Ding
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
92. He is change. He is different. People are tired of the old ways...
Obama has found a new way, and it works. It's called taking the high road. Some people don't get it. I think that's because it's such an odd concept, this being a good person and caring politician while residing in the White House. Jimmy Carter was a high road kind of guy too, but Congress was much different then. Obama has more support, but he's not wielding it like a sword... yet. I expect he will quietly slice his way through the bureaucracy in his own good way, and in his own good time.

I have no problem with the perspective that Obama is a hell of a lot smarter than me. I think he's done very well so far, given the cards he was dealt. Just because I don't understand, or I don't get it, doesn't mean a damn thing. Not at all. I have faith that we'll see his tactics and reasoning and it will lead us to understanding, but not until he's ready to close the deal. I fully believe he will do what is best for all.



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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
96. Thank you!
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
98. Kick &Recommended..
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
99. Disagreeing with Obama is one thing, but claiming to know how he should
be doing the job better is a dumb and absurd thing.

He is an unusually perceptive, people smart and book smart, person.

He does have a "spine." I would bet most of the Senators do, too. Merely dismissing them as "cowardly" is barking up the wrong tree. They are doing what they want and think best. Disagreeing with the policy is another matter and has to be communicated to them, but sitting back and claiming they are "cowards" is useless.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
100. I've been thinking/hoping that too. Obama has proved me wrong many times.
n/t
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robo50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
103. What a wonderful thread! Thank you, Jen !
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
104. It's a nice sentiment, but it also ignores the fact...
that there are vast differences between passing legislation and winning an election. Not that I think health-care reform is doomed, but I also think that what worked in the election is not necessarily what works when trying to pass legislation through Congress.

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. And never mind that passing legislation isn't enough. It needs to be _good_ legislation. If
what comes out of all this bipartisan dickering is a crappy, expensive give-away to the insurance companies that still leaves millions of people uninsured, and millions more under-insured and unable to pay their medical bills, then I will most definitely call this a LOSS for Obama.

(And yeah, I think you are right. What works during a campaign may not work in here because he has a whole lot of other Dems to bring to heel in this case. That's a little bit different than wooing voters.)
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