Racist image, or am I nuts?

So, my friend posted this lovely pic of Obama as an African witch doctor, with the caption "Obama Care" or some such shit. I told her it was racist, and she (and the person who sent the pic to her) both replied with the excuse that it was simply meant to be a funny picture about "primitive health care" - nothing racist about it. In fact, one of them accused me of being racist because of my objections!

Now, am I crazy or what? There had to be many other ways to express displeasure with the President's health care plan than showing him as that particular caricature. But apparently I'm the racist, because they were all "color blind" when viewing it, but I wasn't.

My husband tried to tell them that it was racist in the same way that a lawn jockey, or a cigar store Indian would be. They completely disagree. I basically told them that if they couldn't understand why the picture is racist, that was their misfortune. I didn't know what more to say.

I know some of you have to have seen this pic, it's circulating the Internet. Am I crazy? Or did I turn something harmless into an unnecessary confrontation?

It isn't racist.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Apparently I need to recheck my white people's handbook and brush up on the rules. Silly me!

You're welcome. :P

Just kidding. :)

But you're right, it is a very racist image.

TlalocW

But it's nice to know I'm not *completely* crazy! Thanks!

Sorry, but we don't. I have no problem not voting. I always trust the word of those to whom it is offensive. Why in the world would I think I know better about what is offensive to a group of people of which I don't belong????

I never understand people like your friend.

and they know it.

There are all sorts of ways to demonstrate "primitive" health care - Obama applying leeches to someone, for instance. or - you know, Obama praying over someone's sick bed. Instead, they chose "witch doctor" and all the connotations therein. The poser also alludes to communism... Which makes no sense with the "witchdoctor" theme at all. So the one thing that stands out is the black man in tribal garb.

of course... the base picture isn't a black guy, or an African, or even a "witch doctor" - He's a Papuan warrior. Which just makes it worse - "They all look alike" is clearly the underlying message to that.

I didn't grasp that the original wasn't even of an African. I appreciate finding out things like that. :)

I'd pick the "witch doctor" over some of the stooges an insurance company will send you to.

Racist to the core. No I do not think the op is losing his or her mind.

I think they are a strong person for dealing with people who are so ignorant they won't even acknowledge their own ideology when called on it. I have a very low tolerance for that sort of behavior myself. Of course that rarely makes one popular. I am more than okay with that.

But that's just me. Kudos to the op for standing your ground and pointing it out.

do you think they'd use the same image with, say, Hillarycare or any fucking repuke?

My friend tried to explain it away as "just something funny," and the other lady tried to say it was the same as posting demeaning pictures of Republicans. When I told her that disrespect was one thing, but racist disrespect was taking it to a whole different level, she accused me of being racist! Her claim was that she didn't notice people's color, while I obviously did!

Sigh. Projection is a key Republican trait, I know that. It was just weird having it turned around on me like that. I should have expected it, though.

it is disgusting - me, I tell these folk I don't want to see or hear their racist trash and if they persist, they are no longer my friend

People who think they aren't racist, would swear up and down they're not, but when you scratch the surface, there it is. And I feel really dumb, because during the election I tried to defend my state, claiming that people here weren't really racist, just ignorant. Well, since then I've started to see things differently, sad as I am to admit it.

same thing with sexism - very disturbing to see on a so-called DEMOCRATIC board

and she clearly doesn't think she is now. Honestly, in most ways she's a wonderful person. That's why I reacted the way I did to the picture, she was the last person I'd have expected to act like that. Sometimes people surprise you in very unexpected and unpleasant ways.

I had a longtime friend tell me Obama's intelligence probably came from his white mother - until that comment I'd never heard him say anything even remotely racist. Let me tell you, I read him the riot act. My feeling is, they were OK with black folk as long as they were "in their place" - but PRESIDENT? They just cannot help themselves now. Fuckers.

She has a problem with the race of the person who is president. Your friend is a racist.

meant it to be racist.

and too hard to defend oneself against.
bordering on meaningless at this point.
might as well call somebody "boogeyman"

consider the source.
decide for yourself.

in fact, he may have lost his job.

Yes, it is racist.

I remember one time a friend of mine was arguing with her brother. They were fighting about someone who is black. Her brother then said, "next time you see him go tell him to shut up and eat some fried chicken." So my friend called him a racist and he swore up and down he wasn't. When she mentioned that the fried chicken comment was a known stereotype about black people, he said to her "I had no idea it was a stereotype, so you must be a racist since you knew it." :eyes:

Now she didn't just call him that only because of the fried chicken comment. He had history of saying some stupid racist crap against people. Yet he denies it all the time.

They probably don't have any. Just a guess.

This is a CONSTANT right now.

They will create some text or an image that they KNOW is racially charged ... and then they will DARE YOU to call them on it ... and when you do ... they will claim ignorance ... and CALL YOU the racist.

They are lying a$$wipes.

and the intent is at the very least to be bigoted and play off of Obama being half black and "from Africa".

As for some of those on here who say that, as white people, they can have no opinion and indeed should have no opinion on what is and isn't racist, I can only say once again that as long as you make racial discussions seperate and unequal, you will only help perpetuate racism and racial steryotypes. The argument that only people who are offended by something should have an opinion on it, regardless of the subject matter, has to be the most braindead, stupid idea I have ever heard.

so obviously I agree that white people can have opinions about what is and isn't racist. Their opinions may or may not be correct, of course. I think the idea is, if in doubt, defer to the members of the race in question. If a person tells me they think something is racist toward their own race, and I'm not sure or don't understand why they feel that way, I'm usually going to accept that their opinion in the matter overrides mine.

I understand that sometimes, things are taken as racist when they're genuinely not meant that way. And I've never thought my friend was a racist, but I'm pretty damn sure the person who created that image is. I have a hard time understanding why that wouldn't be equally obvious to other people. I consider it pretty blatant.

I'm just saying, deferring to someone because of their race alone is not going to create understanding. I think that everyone has different experiences and your race can determine that. So someone may have a different perspective because of their race and their experiences. But to not hear that perspective and just to automatically defer to them because you assume they know better won't create more understanding and only further makes "race" a more tense and likely to avoid subject if it is agreed that one race is automatically the authority on it. For another thing, they won't hear your perspective in that case either. It just seems to shut down racial discussions or make any of those discussions rather nasty and it's why few people are willing to talk about race with people of other races.

when it goes beyond having an opinion from our own point of view to saying that it IS or ISN'T racist, or that a certain group of people SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be offended, then that's crossing a line where we have no right to be.

In other words, be offended for yourself...not someone else. What you see may not be what someone else sees.

When we act all offended FOR other people, we're treating them like children.

Bottom line: it's racist! :puke:

is that the majority of us here are probably caucasian. I don't know the exact percentage, but let's say 95%.

Here we are discussing what is, or is not, "racist" about a certain image. Without even asking black people what they think about it. To me, that's sort of like treating them like infants, and I'll give an example of something that would make me real uncomfortable.

Say there's an image going around that may, or may not, be sexist. And the ones who are going to decide FOR ME...for all of us women...are men. They're all sitting around discussing whether or not it's sexist without even asking what we think about it.

Uh...hello? Something wrong with getting a woman's opinion before deciding whether or not I, or other women, would find that image sexist or offensive?

So that's what I see going on here.

If you want to know if something is racist, ask a person of the same ethnic group. Don't decide "yes". Don't decide "no". Ask first.

My opinion, anyway
:shrug:

from white people.

I asked a general question and I assumed there would be people from different races who responded. :shrug:

They have! ;-)

:yourock:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushmonkey3.htm

Let the but-buts begin!

Both aren't funny but if one is racist then the other is also.

Personally, I see a distinction:

If Obama were depicted as monkey, that would be racist because there is a historical, derogatory stereotype that compares black people to monkeys. I assume that stereotype is well enough recognized that a person expressing it should assume it would be offensive to many people.

Bush, on the other hand, was compared to a chimp because his facial features actually resembled that animal. It may have been childish, mean-spirited, disrespectful, and so on, but I don't see any racism in it.

:eyes:

I, on the other hand, am completely certain that you are drawing a completely false correlation.

If you cannot tell the difference, then I'm also certain that you are embarassingly ignorant. What must your mother think? I'm sure she tried so hard with you...

deny being racists. Some are even ignorant of the fact that they're racist. They've never had a serious conversation with their inner selves.

That is no excuse, of course. The photoshopped image to which you refer is flat out racist.

A lot of white people think that if you say, "Hey, that picture you think is funny is pretty damn racist" they think you're accusing THEM of being active KKK members.

No. Part of privilege is not recognizing racism because you don't have to. And because you grew up surrounded with it and have never questioned the imagery and symbolism that gets ingrained. "Passive" racism is more common than the active kind.

Like depicting a white politician as a hillbilly or a medieval village idiot or something. I'm sure it must have happened but I can't think of a widespread high profile case.

And I'm certain the Kennedys got a big slab of irish hate.

There's a meaningful difference though - nobody ever lynched a hillbilly (unless, I suppose, you were a Hatfield or McCoy...)

PRIMITIVE WHITE SUPREMACIST EFFLUVIUM.

I wouldn't have much more to say to these women. Their passive racism is indeed harmful.

Bush 41 called Raygun's financial theory "Voodoo Economics".

If all else fails, she'll tell you to "lighten up" because it's "just a joke" and "liberals have no sense of humor." I usually follow up such statements with a joke about zombie Reagan or Reagan in hell to test their own funny bone.

The victims of said racism should determine if something is racist, or not. If I was a member of the minority in question I would certainly consider it racist. It should be viewed in a historical context.

What part of Obama as a witch doctor is not racist? Harmless? 'Just meant to be funny'? Oh, well of course, when racist a-holes just mean to be funny, then their blatant racism is not racism at all. And how rightwing of your friends to turn right around and accuse you of racism for objecting to their racist nonsense.

Lose the friends.

If it was meant to be racist then it could have used some doctor or medicine not related to Africa, like a medieval doctor with leeches and powdered wig, or a peddler's outfit from back in the day when they sold homemade potions out of wagons and such.

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If it's about "primitive" health care, then why not a Dark Ages doctor using leeches or a Native American shaman? Would that have been as funny?

Racist, racist, racist.

This is just not an example of racism. The fact that President Obama is Black has presented some awkward situations because people are just waiting to pounce on possible racism. Let's not cry wolf or real examples will be scoffed at.

It seems like I'd be able to recall an example or two and even if I could, I bet it would likely still be associative racism. It may not be EXCLUSIVELY racism but I think one has to go to lengths to pretend it isn't a big component.

I don't even get the "how can ______ be racist, when they're so good to me?" sentiment. Being the same "race" takes a lot of heat off that burner and some even have an "exempt list" of friends and icons that aren't "niggers". They may hate everybody but Jordan or their "half breed" cousin don't really count. I've known shitloads that will accept a mixed kid because they can "take after" their white parent or black people that will reject you for the same reason.

I known many that every other word out of their mouth would be nigger and still swear up and down that they don't have an ounce of prejudice. I've known plenty that would never utter the word that would trust a black person to do a damn thing much above taking out the trash.

It's not a clearly measurable thing so many would rather pretend it doesn't exist. It is pretty insulting to call this "crying wolf". What is your bar of a "real example"? Having a cotton gin tied around the neck and having epitaphs carved into the body or would that be a colorful illustration of states rights and a desire for a traditional lifestyle?

I think many draw the racism line at when the accused asserts it themselves or when they can not come up with another possible reason to explain an action or comment. Anything that doesn't meet that muster is "crying wolf" and/or "playing the race card".

In fact, I'll up the ante and say that if "playing the race card" is part of your lexicon then you might be racist your damn self. That's the most Archie Bunker bullshit to come down the pipe in a score of years.

They savaged Hilary (and still do), but they never showed her as a witch doctor.

Yeah, it's racist.

White supremacists have to go to meetings.

if they don't think it's not racist ask them if they would show it to some random people of color to get their opinions. They might think differently about it then.
I doubt they would have the courage to do that though.

I haven't seen the photo but it certainly sounds racist to me.

Kudos to you for speaking up against racism.

One lost his job because he sent a racist image via email.