Take what good stuff we can get or lose it all

I just get stunned when I see some people who think that we can get it all.

Get real.

Learn the political process of compromise, which I don't like, but which is REALITY.

If there isn't some compromising on the left, we risk losing too much, including the 2010 elections.

Politics is a game. (It is true that health care, education, war should not be a game but it is all political.)

Know how to play your cards and when risking it all is truly worth risking it all.

Compromise with who? What is the other side giving?

Compromising without getting anything in return isn't compromising--it's surrendering.

other than that, I agree with DrToast ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. Why the FUCK are we compromising at ALL with people who have FUCKED UP EVERYTHING THEY'VE TOUCHED?

Spoken like someone true to their name...

As a South Floridian, the Stockholm syndrome that has infected the Dems of Florida is sickening to behold.

We are the ruling party.

and already the apologists have started the new meme. Next is how the progressives and liberals killed heath care.

Watch for it on a DU post near you soon.

Any more compromise will make thigs WORSE THAN THEY ARE NOW!

So it's either a public option or kill the piece of shit.

Do what is right or get out of the way.

If the Dems can't do it now, they never will in my lifetime.

that there is widespread support for, doesn't that make them look bad? I would think that would hurt them with moderates in 2010. Played right it would keep them from gaining seats in Congress.
I think put the best bill foreword that gives us what we want. Public option, no pre-existing conditions and universal coverage. If we don't get it, try again.

aren't defeating it; the Dems are. If they can't pass real reform when they are in the majority, then they will reveal themselves as lying hypocrites, and it will be the end of the party.

Polls say the American people want a national health plan that covers everyone.
A comprehensive single payer Medicare-like program for all is what most of us prefer.

Why should any of this be compromised? What we want is morally right and necessary.
It is non-negotiable.

the republican and republican lite dems have floated so far.

But with the Democratic Senators, we have to.

This party is not as far left as many seem to assume.

We can work to change it, but agreed abandoning it won't help.

I hear your pain and I totally understand it. But to ignore political reality will mean that we lose more than any of us on this forum care to lose.

Politics suck.

Compromise now and work for more next year or we will lose it all & won't get it back in my lifetime.
me

Well, how do you like that?

I don't remember the Florida DLC willing to "compromise" when THEY fucked up the entire 2008 primary season.

A TRUE Public Option IS the compromise. We will go no further.

Sebastian - you are a big reason we will lose if we don't change our tactics.
Get a grip on political reality. It is painful, but just do it.

I'm done compromising. I'm through tolerating corporatism disguised as "moderation". The fact that these criminal piece of shit insurance companies will be allowed to exist at all - rather than being in prison where they belong, is more of a compromise than they deserve.

Allowing them to continue to control the system - or to put it ENTIRELY at their mercy (as your hero Hillary would have done) is absolutely unconscionable.

I am now beginning to understand why some good Dems have left this site.

Compromising totally sucks. But it's far better than nothing.
We are close to getting nothing. Go for nothing if that is what you want.

What I will accept (compromise) is a true public option that allows people to choose.

That's it. No further concession. No reason to. Anything less than that is WORSE than what we have now.

:rofl:

:rofl:

Bet it's him too.

I can think of a DLC'er who is though.......

Losers who are unable to learn- and whose own states are a disgrace coming along and admonishing others....

Was Florida not among the states that voted for Obama this year?

And have compromised down to a public option. But now we're supposed to fore go a public option for "triggers", "coops", or worse yet, nothing at all except mandated health insurance for all?

We've already compromised, it is time for the Democratic party to fight like a party with the WH, House and Senate instead of caving to conservative and corporate interests. We have the best shot in seventy plus years to enact some sort of decent step forward on the path of true single payer and the Dems in Congress and the White House are blowing it.

Those of us on the left have compromised, it is time for those of you in the middle and right, DLC and Blue Dog to either act like Democrats first and foremost, or learn how to win on your own. It is past time for the left to continue deferring their agenda, it's time that the rest of the party put some serious skin into the game or learn how to win without the left.

If health care goes down without a true public option, then it will be a signal to leave because the party I once knew and loved has been terminally compromised by corporate whores. It's that simple.

Compromise is supposed to be give and take, so far the dems have given and the rethuugs have taken, compromise is supposed to be a two way deal but so far one way street and no one seems to have what it takes to do the job they were elected to do, this means the whole damn bunch not the president not just the senate and not just the house but all the supposed democrats we gave a mandate to.

And it pains me to see the animosity on this site among people that surely agree on the big stuff.

I have put my life and reputation on the line for liberal causes, but I see peeps eating our own on here.
What the hell does that accomplish?

structure has, for the very first time, been successfully challenged.
We liberals have been ready for such a change for so long that we forget just how significant it really is.
They very idea of a President Barack Hussein Obama has shaken certain people to the core.

I think President Obama needs a few years for these people to just calm the hell down and face reality.
This is what the screams of "I want my country back" really mean.
Absolutely nothing in these peoples' immediate lives has changed since Obama took office.
They simply want the old America back- the one that would not allow a black man with a funny name to be the president.
They transfer their fear of this new America to health care myths, a stay-in-school speech, a terrorist fist bump, Michelle Obama's vacation attire, etc.

These people are idiots to most of us, but they are still Americans and Barack Obama is still their president too.
I don't think they need to be appeased, but they do need time.
ATTEMPTS at big changes should come after, maybe, two years in office.
Attempts at big changes now will be met with such media driven noise, screeching and insanity that none of it will pass.
The Blue Dogs and moderates will be chicken shits about 2010 and won't support such changes.

I hate that it is this way.
I wish Obama could strong arm legislation. I wish he could ram change down the throats of the screaming idiot tea baggers/ birthers/ town hallers. But he can't, he won't and, even if he tried, he wouldn't have enough support.

It's that very small minority making all that noise. We can wait ten years and they will start up noisier than where they left of.
I believe the majority needs to come to the collective conclusion that first health care is a right for every american and second anyone who stands in the way of humanitarian progress will be shunned and marginalized.
Much like we did to the KKK. They still act up in their own small cowardly way but they are shunned, marginalized to the fringe and have no real power.

And now it looks like there ain't gonna be nuthin left.

Or in other words, The public option was our compromise. If the Democrats will not compromise with the left, then they may just lose it all.

Those in "contested" seats have far more to lose in a failure than, say, a senator from a comfortably liberal state like California. If everything everyone says is true, then those purple stater's are fucked either way, and might as well go out in a blaze of glory as a pfizzle of cowardice.

In short, this is when it is worth risking it all. We are all in. How about you?

:headbang:

A big expensive bill gets passed, but nothing happens for 4 years.

for years as well. Why? So more people can die from lack of or denial of services? Those 2 business practices, along with - will we negotiate drug prices or not, almost completely define for me whether the effort is even halfway sincere or just corpoarte dupliciousness from all parties in the first place.

Triggers? Don't even get me started. We are having the discussion in the first place because the immoral, unethical, most likely illegal practices (if anyone would investigate)of the insurance companies are killing and bankrupting Americans. What more could they possible have to do to "trigger" an alternative?

An adaptation

'Please, sir, I want some health care.'

The Republican was a fat, healthy man; but he turned very pale. He gazed in
stupefied astonishment on the small rebel for some seconds, and then
clung for support to the copper. The lobybists were paralysed with
wonder; the other democrats with fear.

'What!' said the Republican at length, in a faint voice.

'Please, sir,' replied Oliver, 'I want some more.'

The Republican aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him
in his arm; and shrieked aloud for the insurance industry executive.

The industry board were sitting in solemn conclave, when the Republican rushed into
the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high
chair, said,

"I beg your pardon, sir! the democrat has asked for
more!'

There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.

'For _more_!' said the insurance industry. 'Compose yourself, Republican, and answer
me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had
his health care allotted by the industry?'

'He did, sir,' replied the Republican.

'That boy will be hung,' said the pharmaceutical executive in the white waistcoat. 'I
know that boy will be hung.'