Kerry a champion debater.

Christian Science Monitor
A champion debater at Yale, Kerry later served as local prosecuter in Massachusetts.
I knew I had read he was good. Do we feel better about debates now?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1729/p01s01-uspo.html

style of debate does bush follow? Kerry can win all the debate points we want him to, but how will he handle dealing with bush? He's a one of a kind opponent - inept, inarticulate but affable.

They're showcases. You can win all the logic points and still lose in the court of public opinion and media spin.

There's no question Kerry is brighter and better-spoken than Bush. All he needs to do is win the charm points, the funny lines, etc.

Remember Schwarzenegger? He's an idiot but he 'won' the Calif. governor debate with a couple of stupid zingers.

again.

Ann Richards and Al Gore can testify to it. Kerry enters at a real disadvantage.

ive heard that too. question is...will the media "gore" him to death.

does well in these national debates.

even challenged the press to find one debate Shrubby has ever lost.

He is the master.

I just hope John Kerry doesn't trip and fall off the stage. If he doesn't, he will have won the night by holding his own against such a brilliant debater as W. We all know how Shrub knows how to speak to the people. W stands for winner of all debates.

he has an unique style. his homespun words and phrases. his down to earth oh shucks. nope. i am worried here

and you think he's better. I feel for you. I hope you don't panic to bad between now and then. I intend to give of very positive vibs. Hey but do piss and moan on.

we are saying it to raise standards for Bush. because the media always gives bush a pass by holding him to low standards. we have to hold him to higher standards. just go along with it. we know what we are doing.

Bush does it all the time which is why the media always says he wins. We don't need to go out and be proclaiming that Kerry is a "champion debator" that unnecessarily leads to higher expectations for him.

informed and or guessing.

if you look at other threads on this subject over time on DU--lower expectations for our guy. But in Kerry's case it is probably not going to work. The media will always think that if Bush shows up and doesn't soil himself he wins. But we need to challenge that view, by saying that Bush has been president for four years and has "won" debates before (based on what the media says)so he should be held to the same criteria as Kerry will be.

will say no more. I still think Bush looks like those that will vote for him. Stupid. Maybe Kerry should bring the Keg.

key to actually "winning" the debates in the spinning that goes on before and afterward.

A few sighs and some bad make-up screwed Gore over on the first debate.

Sorry, I should have done my winking smiley face with my statement.

;)

the media raved on and on and on how bush won those debates. gore was brilliant, he was a good debater, and still bush won. he always wins. that is what the media is always telling us after bush debates. how LOW the expectations are for bush, but sure enough, he ends up winning. go figure

wink

Remember the old expression? " Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."

IMSA

Do NOT talk up the debates like it's going to win it for Kerry.

bump

in the August Atlantic.

Bush survives on sticking to message, keeping it simple and digestable, and not letting facts trouble him. He also lets others underestimate him.

Kerry is always well-prepared, but heavily mannered, long winded and obsessed with detail.

I think Bush is a moron, and Kerry far superior intellect. But what constitutes "winning" a debate is up in the air. If it's clarity and simplcity of message, Kerry's in trouble.

mock bush. cable news went crazy over the gore 'sighing.' They felt sorry for little bushie. Kerry just needs to make strong points and keep a straight face when bush starts to spout his crap.

'will the Dems go negative?') Is Kerry going to be negative - is Kerry going to bash the President - Is Kerry going to mock the President - Is Kerry going to be his usual boring self (I don't find him boring - that's the characterization of the media) Is Kerry going to be vague and nuanced - yaddayaddayadda

everytime I hear him. Edwards is great too. The problem seems to be the media. They could spin steel into spagetti.

If the debates are structured so thinking is required, we are a shoo in. Gore actually tied in the debates. His handlers told him to take it easy on the chimp, that he was looking too mean. It is hard for me to understand the fear shown here about the debates. We all know that bush is an idiot, so what are we afraid of?

Still, I hope that Kerry's advisors have schooled him in talking to the double digit IQ's. Big words and flowery talk are not what is needed.


Summary: How can we lose a debate with a halfwit when all the facts are on our side?

lordy,........isnt that the saddest

by press and 50% of so of the public?

expect the usual media crap. W - the underdog will somehow beat big bad scary opponent.

it is more funny listening to the people flabergasted at some of the praise to bush unique debating style than actually playing the game

was busting up laughing at the other thread

Bush has "down home" affability.

It's disappointing that so many in the country think affability is superior to seriousness and intensity about serious issues.

Kerry has a beautiful warm smile and humor that will come through.

Jan 26, 2000. The first GOP primary debate, held in New Hampshire. Look at who wins all the logic points. Look at who avoids the question and outright lies in his answer. Look at who won the nomination, and then went on to win the presidency after three debates with Al Gore, who is not a stupid man.

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BROWN: Mr. Forbes, you get the next question.

FORBES: I'll ask it of Governor Bush.

BUSH: I was hoping so.

FORBES: I'm sure.

When you ran for governor in 1994, you criticized Anne Richards for the fact that Texas had 13,000 more state employees than did New York state. Since then, the gap is now 36,000. Texas has 36,000 more employees than the state of New York does at state-level. Under your leadership spending has gone up 36 percent -- almost twice the rate of the Clinton-Gore administration.

On your so-called tax cuts, your own budget director said that six out of 10 Texans did not get a tax cut in this last round. And on education, you've dumbed down the standards to the point where in Texas, your SAT ranking has gone from 40th in the nation to 46th in the nation. What can you tell the people of New Hampshire, and of America, that you won't do in Washington what you've done in Texas?

BUSH: So many half-stories, so little time.

I -- let's start with education. People who've looked at the state of Texas have consistently said that because we've set high standards, abolished social promotion, got a vibrant charter school movement, have got a public school choice movement, that we're making the best progress in the nation for improvement amongst minority students; that our minority students because of our strong accountability system are making tremendous improvement; that are schools are some -- ranked as some of the best in the country, Steve. Our public school system is meeting the challenge.

In terms of the budget, I've slowed the rate of growth down. And when you take out population growth and inflation, it's by far the slowest rate of growth ever in my state's history.

In terms of tax cuts, I not only led our state to a billion- dollar tax cut in '97, I led our state to a $2 billion tax cut in 1999. Real, meaningful tax cuts.

But I guess the way to answer your question is, you know, the people of Texas took a look at my record, the second-biggest state in the Union, a mighty important electoral state for any Republican running for president, and they said, Mr. Governor, we accept your record, and they overwhelmingly voted me back into office. I nearly got 70 percent of the vote.

FORBES: Well, George, on, again, on SATs, Texas is one of the few states where minority scores have gone down, not up. Standards have been dumbed down. Eight-grade science tests in Texas shows four -- picture of four insects and says pick out the fly.

So, that's why the test scores have been not going up. Now again, how are you going to improve education nationally when in Texas it's gone down?

And in terms of tax cuts, yours is a tax cut that only Clinton and Gore could love when most people don't get it.

BUSH: Steve...

FORBES: Your own budget director said six out of 10 didn't get it.

BUSH: Let me answer, OK.

I -- you know the people of Texas looked at the real facts. I just explained them to you. Our test scores...

FORBES: What are the real facts on SAT's?

BUSH: Please don't interrupt me. Let me finish, OK.

FORBES: Well, answer the question.

BUSH: The test scores in my state on the NAPE (ph) test, which compares state to state, show dramatic improvement. And that's -- objective analysis after objective analysis has ranked Texas as one of the best education states in the country. It's not only because of me. It's because of teachers and principles and parents.

One reason our -- our SAT scores have improved since I've been the governor, you need to get your researchers to do a better job, but unlike many states...

FORBES: Your ranking went down.

BUSH: Unlike many states, we make sure as many kids can take the SAT as possible. We include all kinds of children. We want our children in Texas to take the SAT.

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Bush is a master at getting his message across and deflecting criticism. Fuck logic, and fuck Yale competitive debate teams with their scored forensics. This is about advertising. Bush is a force to be reckoned with, maybe even feared. Every time we talk him down on this board, we set ourselves up for more disappointment.

The race is not always to the swift.

I still want these moderators to say bull shit you lying bastard.

That would make them seem less "fair and balanced", but I agree in spirit.

by watching every second of tape of bush debating in the past twenty years.

I imagine Kerry is already honing his line of attack for the debates - he can talk, think and windsurf at the same time, remember?