Healthcare -Golden Opportunity to beat R's into the PERMANENT MINORITY. Here's how:

Pres. Obama is brilliant. Just brilliant. Why? Because he has crafted an approach to healthcare reform which most Dems can accept (yes, CAN accept), but most importantly it is what most INDYS can accept, BUT what almost every single RePUKE still WILL NOT accept. Here is where Dems need to step out of the box just a bit and think.
Dems did not win the last two elections because they won over huge numbers of registered R's or got new Dems aboard. They got some new Dems aboard and flipped some moderate R's, but the real reason we won is because we took back the INDYS. Like it or not, that is exactly what happened. INDYS and NOT D's or R's control national elections. They swing it all. THEY outnumber the two parties. INDYS are by and large moderate, centrist, and support as much government as needed but not too much. They are by and large reasonable and rational and thoughtful. They tend toward fairness. They are very patriotic and practical. They are concerned about deficits, and they want problems solved. They often vote split tickets. They are neither ultra liberals nor ultra conservatives. They are not teabaggers nor Glenn Beckers, but they are not Randy Rhodesers either. Win the INDYS and you have the majority. Folks, THAT is what MUST be done here. It is an absolutely golden opportunity. They want Obama to succeed, but if they see him as too far to the left they will leave us and the R's get back in. If we SUPPORT Obama and help him get the job done, even, yes, if we have to compromise, we still WIN because we retain power to enact more reform and more change. If the INDYS see the R's as out of the mainstream right winger extremists intent on defeating even moderate healthcare reform for pure political gain, they will NOT support R's.

So folks, here is what I see: We get a bill that does insurance reform (no more pre-existing condition shit, etc.), that does market reform (the healthcare exchange), that fairly funds the bill and doesn't add to the debt (closing down waste etc. in Medicare, surtaxing the very rich, etc.), that closes he donut hole in Medicare-D, gets about everyone covered, and offers an additional option in some form for those who really need it and to add competition to the private insurers. ALL of these MAKE SENSE and YES they ARE real advances that INDYS (ESPECIALLY ELDERLY INDYS WHO ARE ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL) can accept. And again, Dems can accept this plan too. (I know, many want single payer, but the national movement needed for that just isn't there yet. Still, states can pilot their own.) Also, it even ads tort reform pilot programs which many INDYS like.

Now, get a bill onboard like this with our OWN public rallies, letters, calls, etc, in support of it AND STILL the ReTHUGS reject it; and with a majority of Dems behind it, we can DESTROY the Republican Party. INDYS WILL NOT ACCEPT AN EXTREMIST REPUBLICAN PARTY, whch is why they threw out Bush/Cheney. But they are not to be taken for granted by any means. We can prove WE are the mainstream party and SINK the R's into batshit oblivion PERMANENTLY, that is, IF we are willing to see outside the box and do it.

Moral of the story, SUPPORT OUR AWESOME PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE AND ALLOW HIM TO SIGN A BILL THAT THE INDYS WILL SUPPORT ! (THEY WANT REFORM, BUT A BRAND THEY FEEL THEY CAN ACCEPT.)
(It WILL be an ADVANCE, and it WILL be the R's very worst nightmare as they are praying that we will refuse to unite. Don't give them the satisfaction. Don't let Rush and Beck win. SUPPORT THE OBAMA PLAN !)

(Please, refrain from naysaying. I know all the arguments. NOW IS THE TIME TO UNITE AND SUCCEED AT GETTING SOMETHING DONE !)

Where, exactly, do you think you are posting this? :rofl:

:dem:

-Laelth

groun, Nor Lyndon Larouche Nutjob Underground, Nor Nutjob Nader Underground, Nor Circular Firing Squad Underground. I have been on this forum for five years. I have burned enough shoe leather working to elect Democrats to sink a god damn battle ship. We are in a major league political fight with the RePUKES. THEY are our "enemy." NOT fellow Dems. Sure there can be occasional critiques, but the stated rules of this forum are that we are to support Dems, and certainly the guy millions of us worked so hard to elect as President and whom we want to succeed. This is my post and I have every single right to ask that circular firing squad naysayers stay off it, much like the many posts that ask people to "Check In If You Support...." Those posts are commonplace and are NOT asking for naysayers but for affirmations. MANY of us have heard enough of the anti-Obama-policy arguments and posts and tired of them. I know them backward and forward. (i.e. On healthcare, the national movement needed for national single payer simply IS NOT THERE. It will not pass plain and simple. Allow states to experiment if they want, but nationally IT WILL NOT PASS, so give it up. It would be nice to have, but the President's plan is the best we'll get. It IS an ADVANCE, and we need to take it.)

Our mission is to beat Republicans and garner political power, NOT to self-implode. If what the RePUKES are doing right now isn't enough for you to want to train every ounce of your energy on smashing them apart politically, then NOTHING will be and I don't want to hear the useless counterproductive naysaying. I've heard it already. This is a god damn no-brainer. We have wingnuts shouting us down, attacking us and our leader in every imaginable disgusting way, and yet some still for some INSANE reason want to stand in a circular firing squad. Totally STUPID and BONEHEADED, plain and simple. Politics is about getting POWER. You get it through unity and compromise AND ATTACKING THE OPPOSITION, NOT YOUR OWN ! The President's health plan IS an advance compared to what we have now. Getting it done means the END of a chance for R's to win back the White House in 2012. That's all there is to it.

Sure, Max Baucus was elected as a Democrat, but Obama is the President, and even Dennis Kucinich is a Democrat. And I am pretty sure that they each have a different plan in mind.

It is time to unite to do what is best electorally for Democrats and what is worst for RePUKES. That could not be clearer. Supporting the President's plan, which Dems and INDYS can find plenty in to accept, means a HUGE defeat for the PUKES. The PUKES are invested in defeating Dems and Obama on this issue at all costs. That is their stated goal. They think if they can, then they win in 2010 and 2012 because our side will be ineffective even with large majorities. So the opportunity here is to unite around the President's plan and make the PUKES look like the extremist nutjobs that they are.
It is a golden chance that we can not blow over silly infighting. I'd like single payer too, but even according to Kucinich, the broad national movement for it isn't there yet. The best we can hope for is the Obama plan which is still an advance. It is an advance, and passing it without R support, even as reasonable as it is, even with a tort reform provision, means they look like extremist obstructionists and not fair problem solvers. That means we satisfy most Dems and most election-controlling INDYS and we put the PUKES right the hell out of business knocking every ounce of wind out of their pathetic crazy racist fascist sails.

Sure, some on the very far left will say, "Better to have no bill than Obama's bill." Well, do that and not only do you get nothing at all, but you set the party up for a major fall in 2010 and 2012.
You hand Rush, Glenn, racist Joe Wilson, and the rest of those scum a happy dance victory.

Stopping insurance co's from denying coverage is LIBERAL. Stopping them from capping benefits is LIBERAL. Forcing them into an exchange is LIBERAL. Adding some form of additional competetive option to force them to reduce costs is LIBERAL. Shoring up Medicare and closing the donut hole is LIBERAL. These are all LIBERAL measures that most Dems can and should welcome. HELP THE PRESIDENT ! HELP THE PARTY. DESTROY THE REPUKES. SUPPORT OBAMA'S PLAN !

I would say that what Baucus has come forth with would be so. Forcing people who cannot afford it to buy profit inflated insurance is NOT liberal. If we do that we lose, even if we get a bill.

On the one hand, it will hurt if we lose this fight. If the senate will support what Obama has said he wants, then so would I. On the other hand, it will hurt more if we destroy our own voter base by slamming their wallets with a bad bill that only helps insurance. If Obama compromises any of his points, the bill will not work. The main point in contention being the addition of a competitive option. Without that, the rest starts to look like selling your prius so that you can buy a new taillight for your prius.

I believe our mission is to pass good legislation that benefits the American people. This is not a "team sport." I don't need to make sure the President "wins."

I want good government, and the President's "health insurance reform" proposal SUX. I will fight against it, and I will advise all who will listen to fight against it too.

You do what you have to do, but I am not interested in your team sport. I will not root for the team in the blue jerseys if I think they are wrong. On this issue, I believe the President is wrong.

:dem:

-Laelth

politics IS a team sport. Folks like you don't get it and never will. It is like trying to reason with a kitchen countertop. Fine. And you might as well send your donation to Rush and Glenn today, because your opinion is only good for them and theirs. You have no business on a board whose rules expressly require us to support Democrats. That means, in the end, the PARTY and certainly our PRESIDENT. Here we have a chance to sink the Pukes for decades, and you want to blow it because you can't find anything to be satisfied with in Obama's plan even though it offers many improvements over the status quo. It's always all or nothing with extremists, be they ultra right or ultra left. Liberal is one thing. Ultra left is quite another, and it is not the mainstream.

He's a goo-goo, and so am I. We want good government, and we are not particularly good at being team players (especially when our team is dead wrong).

Listen to Jane Hamsher's discussion with Cynk Uygur, and you'll see what we're upset about. The President's "health insurance reform" bill sells out the American people. It's a disaster waiting to happen. It will hurt the Democratic Party. It is little more than a massive Federal bail-out of the health insurance cabal paid for, principally, on the backs of the struggling middle class. Passing this thing will insure that we lose seats in Congress in 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQDppuqbo8

Ignore this warning at your peril. And listen to this other warning too. You can either start listening to the Progressives in the Democratic Party, and start treating us as if we were intelligent adults who are worthy of more than your unadulterated scorn, or you can continue to try to push us right out of the party, in which case you may get your wish.

Which choice do you prefer?

:shrug:

:dem:

-Laelth

Edit:Laelth--sloppy proofreading

Have you read my other posts completely? You are conversing with someone who has worked for and voted for both moderate and very liberal dems up and down the ticket for years in my state at all levels. Please don't lecture me about "ignoring" progressives. Even Dean is NOT strangleheld to HR626. And, on the electoral reality, you are ENTIRELY WRONG. If we fail to support President Obama and fail to get his bill done, or one close to it, Democrats will lose in 2010 and very possibly in 2012. Politics is and has always been the art of compromise in a diverse and complex nation. If you superglue yourself to a position, you will be forever ineffectual and you will lose endlessly. There are ideals, and then there is brass tax reality. We have a golden opportunity to sink the Pukes. Jane Hamsher is but one opinion. The VAST consensus is that if we don't get a bill through, we lose in 2010, and we will. Remember Clinton in '94? Well, I for one am damn well not going to allow that to happen again. I AM PROGRESSIVE ! That means MAKE PROGRESS not "all or nothing." The broad-enough national movement for HR626, by Kucinich's own admission, does not yet exist. States will be allowed to pilot it though. You'd do better working for that at the state level. The many other measures in the Obama bill IS damn well some PROGRESS ! I for one well welcome it, most Americans welcome it, and I for certainly have a higher calling to help my party, to unite, and to blast the outrageous racist right wingers into electoral hell for decades ! What will you do if the R's win in 2010 and 2012? What will you get then? And yes, there is a UNIVERSE of difference between Obama/Dems and the right wingers in Congress. If we get something done and retain power, we can work to further improve things. If we fail to get a bill done and lose our majorities, we turn the clock way back with the Pukes in power. Nuff said.

I think there's very little chance that we will lose Congress in 2010. The political climate is really very different now than it was in 1994. In 1994, the Republican Party's approval ratings were not in the toilet. The ghost of Ronald Reagan was much more powerful then. Whereas Clinton followed Bush I, Obama follows one of the least popular politicians in American history, Bush II. Clinton was elected with less than 50% of the popular vote. Obama was elected with well over 50% of the popular vote. The religious right had not completely taken over the Republican Party then. Now, Republican politicians are generally insane, reflecting their rabid base.

I think Obama blew his first chance at health care reform by pushing for a weak plan. I think he should table the idea, for now, and push for single payer in 2011. The current system is unsustainable, and everyone knows it. Change will come. Let's not settle for a bailout of the insurance industry. Let's insist on the eradication of it.

I expect the Democratic Party will pick up 3 seats in the Senate and between 3-6 seats in the House UNLESS Congress passes a disastrous "insurance reform" bill. At this point, I would rather do nothing than to pass any of the bills under consideration in Congress.

Again, ignore this warning at your peril. I don't care what your "consensus" says. I think you are wrong.

:dem:

-Laelth

aren't able to screw people, they're not. And they are well versed in that art.

Off to the Greatest Page...

:patriot:

He has to show to be fair and balanced to win and convince those in the middle. I think he naturally is fair and balanced so it isn't contrived either. We hold on to power for at least 8 years we can get a lot done. There is as strategy to President Obama's thinking and it is apparent as it unfolds. We have to think long term to even begin to see the horizon of that better future.

Remember that book? One thing leads to another. Give the moose a muffin and then he wants jam.

It's the same principle at work here. Even what some people would call "half-assed" reform measures are still reforms that create a world of difference for those who need it. And once they get "half-assed" reform, they're going to want it improved upon next year. Expanded to cover more citizens the year after that. Barriers removed later on.

My guess is that health care reform is going to be an evolutionary process that will last a decade or more.

And the first step in this long journey is to pass an initial (albiet not perfect) bill.

Concealing the efficiency of Medicare has been the MSM's greatest success in this fight. While I'd like to see Medicare expanded to cover more people, any public option that insures more people affordably could whet the public appetite for actual delivered health care.

America is still far too conservative, poorly-informed, timid and easily-distracted to go for universal single-payer now, but we can set the stage.

I think there a generation of Civics Teachers in this country who should be sued for malpractice!

...for allowing public education to fall apart so spectacularly.

We've degenerated to the point where the rote memorization of facts is the be-all and end-all of public education. Critical thinking skills are so anemic that we can't even have a discussion of public policy anymore.

OK, kids. This is a syllogism. This is an ad hominem argument.

And I really (really and truly) wish conservatives would learn the meaning of the word hypocrisy rather than just use it as a catch-all perjorative term. As in -- Obama is a hypocrit because he says he wants to end the bi-partisan bickering, but he calls out the lies being spread about healthcare (This rant courtesy of a really bad letter to the editor in this morning's paper).

Oy.