Undocumented Immigrants Can't Buy Health Insurance, Even If They Can Pay Full Cost

This isn't right. Why are we becoming more like them?

http://www.openleft.com/diary/15116/undocumented-immigrants-cant-buy-health-insurance-even-if-they-can-pay-full-cost

Undocumented Immigrants Can't Buy Health Insurance, Even If They Can Pay Full Cost
by: Drum Major Institute
Tue Sep 15, 2009 at 18:00

Originally posted by Cristina Jimenez at DMIBlog.


In response to Republicans' lies, inappropriate behavior (Joe Wilson R-SC called the President a liar) and anti-immigrant scare tactics to weaken support for health care reform, Obama has decided to cave in to Wilson and his supporters.

Despite the fact that the bill has clear language about excluding undocumented immigrants from a new health care plan, Senator Max Baucus (D- MT) announced yesterday that a White House proposal to bar undocumented immigrants from buying health coverage, even if they can pay full cost, will be included in the health care reform bill.

Senator Kent Conrad explained the move by saying:



But this "strategic" move only validates the lies and anti-immigrant scare tactics of conservatives, while defeating the purpose of effective health care reform.

The Obama administration is making a mistake by letting the politics of fear win the health care and immigration debate. The debate needs to be reframed. The reality is, as revealed by DMI's latest immigration analysis, that undocumented immigrants are part of our communities; pay taxes, and contribute to our economy. Fully integrating them into our society will benefit American workers and the economy.

Everyone has a right to health care. No one is less of a person because of how they came here. I was lucky enough to arrive through vaginal birth. Others aren't.

But until that reform is around, if somebody is here illegally, we should send them back to their country.

If they are injured, we still need to help them, but them ship them back. There are legal ways to enter this country, they need to use those methods.

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and if we try to cover everybody who can crash the borders for every little thing, then healthcare reform will go down the drain.

Let's see if we can provide healthcare to our own citizens first, and if we have any of the promised savings from that, we can spread it around to those who are here illegally.

heartrending stories of Americans who have no work and no hope in sight for getting a job. Yet, everywhere in our town there are THOUSANDS of illegal immigrants working at jobs that Americans used to do. So my compassion goes first to my fellow citizens.

Yes, we need to do something drastically different about those illegal immigrants who are already here and who have conducted themselves above reproach. I agree with the plan to offer them citizenship after they complete the appropriate courses.

But, given the power of the major corporations who are benefiting so handsomely from these lower-wage, less demanding employees, we will NEVER see any real change in the laws.

Meanwhile, our hospital emergency rooms are filled with non-citizens who are getting treated for free, while those of us who are busting our butts to make a legal, honest living are paying for their care while we can barely afford it ourselves. I know there will be the usual cries of anti-immigrant, racist, etc. but I'm basing this on my personal experience at our state hospitals, so save your breath.

Stop illegal immigration, ramp up the approval of citizenship for those who are here and have been good citizens, strengthen our unions, provide jobs for American citizens. Once we have done all of that I'll be in favor of allowing more immigration, if it is needed.

Can you offer me some statistics of the jobs that illegals have in your town that Americans use to do and now can't get? Also on a typical day most emergency rooms are full of non-citizens?

I find it very hard to go along with what you post.

I'm a building contractor. When I first became a carpenter almost thirty years ago the field was dominated by white working class males, but was also comprised of maybe 10% African-Americans, and two or three percent women, mostly white. Where I am in North Carolina the trades associated with building were close to 100% Americans: whites, blacks, native Americans, and mostly males. We're talking every aspect of building: grading and excavating, concrete work, masonry work, framing, siding, interior trim, sheetrock work, tile, painting, landscaping, cleaning, to name some.

There were so few hispanics that I honestly cannot think of one that I knew or worked with during the first twelve years in the industry.

And, yes, my references to illegal immigrants are mostly to people from Central and South America.

Now these trades are dominated by hispanic workers, most of whom are not American citizens or legal immigrants: grading/excavating laborers, concrete workers (laborers and skilled), masons (laborers and skilled), framing, siding, sheetrock, tile (laborers and skilled), painting, landscaping, cleaning.

We have several high-rise construction sites around town that are in varying stages of construction, but all have one feature in common: hundreds of hispanic laborers/carpenters/skilled workers supervised by a few mostly white, American supervisors/managers. I drive by these sites every day.

As far as the hospital emergency rooms and clinics, that is totally personal observation. But rest assured, that as I sit in the waiting room waiting my turn or waiting for some family member to come out, I am always astonished by the number of people who are there that I assume are immigrants--hispanic and probably illegal immigrants.

HOW do I know that these folks who appear to be of latino/hispanic origins are illegal? Some I just guess at. Others I know because I am friends with their LEGAL immigrant, American citizen bosses and supervisors with whom I work on a regular basis. So, I ask these business owners and managers if their workers are U.S. citizens. The answer is NO at least 85% of the time.

So, county worker, I am not making up any of this. If you live where I do, all you have to do is look around you to see the reality.

There are many of these illegal immigrants that I would gladly have as fellow American citizens. But I don't want them here illegally, with no allegiance to our country, displacing American workers who are not willing to work for the shit wages and benefits (if any) that these folks GLADLY work for.

Even if all the construction jobs were being taken by illegals, that hardly proves that illegals are taking jobs away from so many Americans. Also, if that were true than the beef is with the employers because they create the draw that brings illegals here.

As far as the emergency room goes. Any child born in America has the same right to medical care as you do. If an illegal brings in a child born here to the emergency room they have every right to see that child treated.

If all the illegals became citizens and formed unions with Americans the bargaining power would be too much for employers to under pay people. In cities through out CA, illegals and legals working in the hotel industry and others have fought and won the battle for a living wage. That win accrues to Americans also who are not so taken with the idea to fight for their rights like Hispanics do. In a sense the illegals are fighting proxy wars for all of us. A million Hispanics marched in Los Angeles a few years ago protesting the draconian immigration laws being proposed. We never see a million Americans protest any injustice do we? Imagine if we joined them fighting for our rights and social justice! Maybe we could even improve the economy of Mexico so they would not have to come here looking for work! We are marginalized because we never work together for anything. We are more prone to complain and hope the government will pass a law making the world a better place for us. I will never happen. You don't see single payer coming anytime soon do you?

They also pay into social security helping with the social security crisis. We benefit but they get no benefit.

My idea is that we should support the legalization of illegals and join with them in the battle for social justice. We are pitted against them by the corporations and we lose as you point out.

Together we can start winning for a change!

However, I disagree with your assertion that illegal immigrants are not taking jobs away from so many Americans. They get the jobs because they are willing to work for lower wages and no benefits. In many cases, the employers do not even allow them to get treatment for on-the-job injuries that are their due but which they are afraid to apply for because of their illegal status. Once the wage scale drops, Americans who had those jobs begin looking for work in other vocations. Imagine a carpenter who is used to working for $15 per hour who finds his job has been taken by a Mexican illegal immigrant who is working for $9 per hour. Do you think the American would take a pay cut like that to do the same work? Hell no. This is what has happened, and is happening all over our country in all types of professions that do not require degrees or highly-specialized skills.

I have no problem whatsoever with ANYONE getting treatment at an emergency room when it's necessary, regardless of whether they are born here or not. But I have a huge problem with the idea that we can continue to provide medical care for MILLIONS of people who are in this country illegally, with thousands more coming in every day. Yes, some of them are paying into the social security fund, but many are not because they are paid under the table. Nor do they pay the same taxes that most other citizens pay, such as personal property taxes and income taxes--which are the base from which our emergency room care is taken.

Your idea of a coalition of illegal immigrants and American workers might actually become a reality IF the economy continues to stay as stagnant as it currently is. The dicey part is that the Americans will be fighting for a much lower standard of wages and benefits than they had before and that they SHOULD have now, and the immigrants will be fighting and risking the loss of a level of income that most of them could only dream of before they came here. So, to me, that is the reason it will not happen. Many of the illegal immigrants that I am familiar with send money home to their families in Mexico. Their families use the money to supplement their often meager lifestyles, but they also use that money to purchase land and homes and luxuries that they never could have afforded on the income that was possible working in Mexico. Often, these workers will take a month or two off from their jobs and go back to Mexico for a family visit/vacation, even though they risk getting caught when they try to get back in. Many of them don't even want to live here once they get their personal situation in Mexico stabilized and have enough money to "retire".

We cannot even get American citizen workers organized in a meaningful way, so I am having a hard time imagining a successful unionization movement by people who are risking deportation if they get caught.

There is a tremendous amount of resentment against illegal immigrants that is based on some of the job-loss and wage-devaluation problems I mentioned above. Working class Americans who would be doing the blue collar jobs that have been lost to immigrants make up a goodly portion of the angry right-wingers that we see screaming about President Obama and big gummint. In my area, the so-called rednecks are the ones who are affected by this and they are the ones who have a visceral anti-immigrant reaction and who channel that into Republican votes--despite the fact that it only enhances the power of the corporations.

I don't know the answer, but until we get a rational immigration policy in place I'd like to see us put a lid on illegal immigration.

Given the political capital President Obama is expending on this healthcare NON-reform, I doubt he'll be taking on immigration reform in a meaningful way anytime soon. Sad to say.

Meanwhile we all have to keep working for fairness and justice.

Cheers.

That's why they come illegally.

And no, we shouldn't "ship them back". We should reform our immigration laws and trade policies.

Why do so many of us HATE Corporations shipping jobs overseas, but then have no problem when they simply import the slave labor? It has the EXACT same effect on Americans. My father was a union drywaller for 30+ years. Drywall happens to be the number 2 employer of illegals (behing farming). As a union worker, he saw his wages DROP (not even looking at the added impact of inflation) just about every year for the last 15 years of his career.

And that's the point. Use them because they'll work for cheaper.

And their struggle to survive on a very low wage without any protections of the law is something that should not be demonized because middle class Americans who are much better off to begin with get slightly lower wages.

Your father's fellow Americans didn't care, they wanted lower prices. As probably you and your father do when you are the buyers.

Our family went from a comfortable working class to paycheck to paycheck, able to lose our house any month. Hardly a slight inconvenience.

Regarding my purchases, I make sure to buy American whenever I can. My wife and I have owned 6 cars and every one of them was made by a US company.

And your excuse is "well they are spending money here." Sure, but then tack on the costs of education, medical and prisons and we LOSE money. Thus, using your logic, we SHOULD be outsourcing jobs instead.

Outsourcing to China helps the economy of China.

The costs of education and prisons are covered by taxes, which if they paid them here, they'd contribute. If there are in China they pay their taxes to China.

It sounds like you may be scapegoating these immigrants, though, for something with more complex causes. At any rate, we can't debate personal issues on DU, because we have no proof that what you say is accurate and you aren't leaving anything out. It would be just as accurate to guess that your family lives better than illegal aliens do, even with this alleged pay cut.

The cost of education, etc is offset by their contributions to our economy as a whole.

The rich are about 10-15% better and the poor and working class are WORSE off. Thus, once again, why do you support a policy that dicks over the poor and just lines the pockets of the rich?

I also don't know anyone who has no problem with imported slave labor.

One of my closest friends is a dry waller who is now driving a truck. But he understands the villains are the contractors who hire the undocumented workers and not the workers.

So the newest immigrant class is not only at the bottom of the economic chain, but is outside the protection of the law.

I'm thinking others might have, too.

The laws have changed considerably.

get into this country legally. Unless he/she has enough money to start a business or has an H2N2 visa, the wait to be a legal immigrant from Mexico is about 30 years! Why do you think people risk their lives crossing the desert after giving a coyote $3000? The mantra about "let them come in legally" is just another of a long long stream of RW deceptions. Shouldn't be echoed on this board!

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/14/the-white-house-tacks-right-on-illegal-immigrants-in-health-care-reform/?xid=rss-topstories

Look, the whole thing is a bit irrelevant ... and too soon to see what will actually be in the final bill that congress passes. In the meantime, don't give the Republicans anything to yell about. Then restore certain elements to the bill in conference. They can yell all they want afterward.

If employers are willing to exploit them and provide a reason for them to get here, they should be entitled to the same rights as everyone else.

As I remember the laws punish employers that are caught employing illegals $10,0000.00 per violation the first time they are caught. The second time an employer is caught they face additional fines, prison time, and a loss of right to practice/own a business for life.

Punish those that create the demand, and the supply will dry up.

mike kohr

And they generally don't, for the lowest level jobs.

There are a lot of people out there who work yet aren't covered.

Thats the context Im speaking in, though it could also be an individual mandate.

We exploit these people, get cheaper prices for it and then demonize them.

Sick of the hatred and those whose ancestors came "legally" need to remember that the 19th century did not have the technology, if they had, those Irish, Polish, Italian, etc. other immigrants would have been treated this way too.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/baucus-bill-would-bar-illegal-immigrants-from-insurance-exchanges/

Unfortunately, while, at the policy level, letting them benefit of the bill would be the wise thing to do, it would be very difficult to pass, and you can always count on Baucus to make a move to pander to the right.

something callous and illogical.

Had we ignored Joe The Heckler and the Fox crowd then the language in the bill would have been fine with anyone that will ever vote for the bill. Now, we have given in and can't take the new garbage out without catching 12 different kinds of redneck hell.

Two reliable planks of the Blue Dog Caucus!

This whole issue is idiotic, unless we want to make it so that these people show up bleeding to death (or whatever) at the emergency room and then make a law that they can't be treated. Perhaps we can stick a special "dying bin" outside the doorway where they can go to die. Obviously though someone who is dead will still be able to pass along the cost of picking up and disposing of the body to someone else.

So, instead of having health insurance to cover their medical costs, they will be forced to continue using the emergency room as a primary physician, passing the costs on to U.S. taxpayers.

Just when you thought Republicans couldn't get any dumber. Not only is this inhumane (which, I know Republicans don't care about), it's also really STUPID from a cost standpoint.

What good is letting people go untreated for communicable deceases?

be able to buy a health insurance policy without a government subsidy. They aren't going to automatically go back to the old country just because they can't buy insurance. They'll stay here, get sick, show up at the ER and we'll most likely pay for it. Just like we do today.