Administration, Allies expose Iranian deception over secret plant, issue warning

President Obama joined with President Sarkozy and Prime Minister Brown held a joint press conference where they unveiled that "Western intelligence agencies had breached the secrecy" surrounding a secret Iranian underground complex designed to enrich Uranium.

How do you think the average Middle Eastern Citizen will interpret our WARNING? :crazy:

I can tell you exactly how the average Middle Eastern Citizen will react.


They do not want to see their region enter into a nuclear arms race.

Also there is a historical animus between the Arabic and Semetic "average citizen" against Iranian hegemony which goes back centuries.

Now we turn to the average Persian. We know that the average Persian does not support either the Supreme Leader nor Ahmadinejad and one of the key points of criticism, within the conservative circles, is the obsession with developing a nuclear weapon. They also object to the financial penalties they are carrying because of their increasing international isolation.

As to the average Muslim, not the same as the average "Middle Eastern Citizen" they will have two reactions: One they will not approve of Iranian lying about their activities and two, the overwhelming mass of Muslims consider a nuclear bomb to be "unIslamic" because its useage would entail the killing of innocent civilians, prohibited by the Koran.

In a word the average Middle Eastern Citizen is happy that the Middle East not enter into a period of nuclear competition.

to talk about security matters, or think about security matters, or God forbid, defend ourselves. It's all a conspiracy to enrich somebody or another. There are no threats out there EVER and if there was one we don't deserve to be protected anyway.

Or something like that.

actually thinks!

We are the God Almighty Christian Empire Nations (USA, UK and France) telling you "little people" what to do.

Yes, that goes over well.

Face it, we're bullies. If you're OK with that "fine" but don't pretend that we have ANY moral justification.

Ahmadinejad has been the bully, against his own people. I don't think we belong in Iraq or Afghanistan. However, nuclear weapons in the hands of someone like Ahmadinejad is something to worry about (as well as in the hands of RW wackos in Israel). Two wrongs don't make a right.

:crazy:

and hysterical.

And we still are responsible for what our leaders do, past and present, with regard to foreign relations.

(har har)

he can't be trusted.

The facts are as follows

The "We" is not "Christian Natinos" it is the United Nations.


The United Nations has called on Iran to comply with the regulations of the International Atomic Energy Agency.


Iran has said that they will comply with the IAEA.


Iran has been exposed as having lied to the IAEA and the international community, led by President Obama, has expressed a multilateral front in demanding that Iran comply with the promises that they already made.


Unless you are for illegitimate regimes lying to United Nations agencies your comments are baseless and without any logic.

from the fact that the United Nations is, and always has been, the USA's bitch on the really important stuff that involves OUR best self interests.

We DEMAND what we want and ignore the rest.

of the United Nations? Christian sins are legend, but you cannot blame the sum total of all the worlds problems on the US.

Just most of them.

And you honestly believe that after OUR CIA helped overthrow a democratic leader in 1953 and replaced him with a brutal THUG known as "The Shah" that "the Iranian People" don't remember their history?

Yes, I know that most are young, but they KNOW and they resent our government's meddling in the affairs of The Middle East.

what has happened in the past.

If everyone here limited oil use like their life depended on it, which it kind of does, we Wouldn't be there.

Word.

The US only vetoes UN resolutions regarding legitimate regimes waging unilateral wars (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/11/un.israel/) ... but, as long as the UN is doing as the US dictates, then it is a Beacon of Global Justice.

And, of course, we should at all times ignore the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, of which Iran is a signatory, which guarantees signatories 3. the right to peacefully use nuclear technology... because, in this story... no power has any evidence that Iran is enriching beyond the 5% that is commercial grade... so we need to pretend that such enrichment is not perfectly legal under the terms of international agreements... in order to justify continued hysteria in the face of Iran... doing something legal??

Why is an illegal US invasion of Iraq, or an illegal Israeli invasion of Lebanon, not a big deal... but somehow Iran exercising it's right under a treaty that the US and Iran, among others, has signed is a justification for hysteria?

:thumbsup:

no standing to say who is or isn't clueless.

on cluelessness.

In fact, most of the world sees it as I've described above. We've been so indoctrinated via our M$M that we can NOT pull ourselves away from "an American Empire" mindset long enough to realize they want us OUT of their neighborhood. Nothing more, nothing less.

If the USA will not get out of the Middle East, then every damn country wants a nuke.

We, the USA's presence, is responsible for nuking up the neighborhood.

that had nothing to do with U.S. troops or presence. so..um....YOU'RE WRONG!!! go figure.

And North Korea's export programs.
And quite possibly, russian scientists looking for survival money after the USSR collapsed.

Well, the Saudis, albeit the REAL people behind 9/11, have become our friends.

In what logical world does that make sense?
How do the Saudis perform with regard to human rights?
But they don't have to worry - they own Citi-Bank and are "our thugs."
And Yemen allows us to visit and use our drones for Summary Executions so they get a pass.

Most everyone else wants NUKES. :(

but at least you got to work in those cool graphics.

wish to acquire nuclear weapons as long as a large US Military presence remains at their doorsteps.

Thanks for the opportunity. :hi:

So... they're not even technically in "the area".

Israel, on the other hand, is very much in "the area"... and the world generally accepts that Israel has nukes... and no one ever hears of Europe or the US insisting on UN resolutions to investigate... rather the world watches as the US, in particular, vetoes any UN condemnation of Israel for... anything.

No... I think Israel, often viewed in the region as a US sockpuppet, is responsible for "nuking up the area"... so, YOU'RE WRONG...

(Ohh, and... even if it were India and Pakistan... I notice the US trades freely with both... sends military aid... and DOES NOT SPONSOR SANCTIONS AGAINST EITHER... so, uhhm... even if one were to grant you your point... YOU'D STILL BE WRONG on the underlying point...)

and based on MSM stereotypes.

Having lived in Islamic countries, employed hundreds of Muslims and talking to my Islamic family members I can tell that you have never had any serious interaction for the people that you appoint yourself spokesperson for.

Let me lay it out in detail:


Average Middle Eastern Citizens

1) Don't like government leaders who have been caught in a deception
2) Don't want to see any increase in nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
3) Have a historical concern about Persian hegemony
4) Still maintain a strong distrust of Shiite mystacism and especially don't want to see a "Shiite bomb"
5) Consider all nuclear weapons to be un Islamic by definition
6) Do not consider the "Supreme Leader" and President Ahmadinejad to be the legitimate leaders of the Iranian people
7) Generally distrust their religious leadership and wish for more secular governments not less.

Average Persian
1) Are strongly against the acquisition of Iranian nuclear weapons
2) Are against the regime's handling of the nuclear program and stripping investment away from promised rural development
3) Do not consider President Ahmadinejad their legitimate leader
4) Have a positive image of the United Nations and do not want to be found in non compliance with UN agencies
5) Have a highly positive image of the United States (the average Iranian is 20 years old and disenchanted with the Iran they grew up in) and positively hate that antagonistic relationship that this regime maintains with the US.
6) Would like a secular government and not a theocracy.


Again it is you that has accepted the MSM vision of a hatefilled, illogical, religious fanatic average Middle Eastern Citizen.

The average middle eastern citizen is one that is proud of his heritage, appreciates his religious tradition but doesn't buy it literally and has a fairly secular point of view. They believe in science and want the advantages of science and the industrialized world whether those benefits (increased medicine or better jobs) come from the West, East, South or North. The overwhelming driving interest of the "average middle eastern citizen" is not related to politics but to their family.

Forgive the shit out of me, if I don't wish that the country I was born in to be blown to KINGDOM COME.

Yeah, you EMPLOY Muslims - that makes you a genius. :crazy:

Confronting Iranian lies is not a call to military action, something that I have frequently warned of here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6397542

The fact that we have moved from a unilateral based approach to a multilateral approach means that the chances of a peaceful resolution is increased.

The issue comes down to a very simple one.


The Iranian government has lied to the IAEA.

You either think this is a good thing or a bad thing.

It has nothing to do with "Christian countries" "past imperialistic actions" or any other revisionist attempt to excuse illegal actions by a regime that does not have the support of the Persian people

Your support of Ahmadinejads lies has now earned you a very rare ignore, your opinions are off point, without fact, and continue racist characterizations of "middle eastern" citizens.

Bye!

Bye!

grant.

:evilgrin:

This is truly theatre of the absurd being played to please one member of the audience who's threatening to burn the house down unless the play turns out to his liking.

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If I didn't care or was really hostile to Israel, I'd just let the idiots who have been leading the country continue on over that cliff. Yes, that one, right over there. There are a lot of great traditions and beautiful destinations in Israel - Masada isn't one of them.

and how much of Iran's support for Hamas and other groups is based on Israel's attacks on Palestinian citizens?
AND, if Israel behaved in a civilized manner, when it came to people it has grouped together in Palestinian ghettos, how likely would it be that Iran would respond in kind?

Palestinians buys for one single second any claims by the current wretched regime ruling Iran that they do what they do for the sake of Palestine.

As my Palestinian dentist told me on my last office visit, "whenever anyone in the Arab or Islamic world does something bad. They ALWAYS say they are doing it for Palestine."

Having said all of this, no one in the Arab world wants to see Iran militarily attacked - as much as most people despise the regime. The consequences would be just too devastating.

but watching the street riots in Teheran, the eroding support for the imams, and the hardening of dislike of the ruling regime, they are running into a problem of their own making.


China is in the same position. Four times this year, the military was called out in major force to quiet the angry masses. And that's just the times that the news made it outside their border.

Of course, when we peer inward, we have troops using sonic weapons against US citizens in Pennsylvania, too.

The last time we got involved we put in a BRUTAL THUG named the Shah of Iran.

They don't want our help.

the regime down, and put in a friend as tsar. And we know how well tsars work out. Drug tsar, Auto tsar, Russian tsar, an open tsar of mayo . . .

hostility is very strong.

Arab countries are worried that an Iranian bomb would be aimed at them first.

That is why the President has said that the time has come for Arab leaders to say in public what they have been saying in private.

then why are we over there playing GOD?!?

On Edit: Never mind, IRAN has OIL.

Meet the new Boss same as the old Boss.

fucking dumb.

:eyes:

Iran has stated that its policy is not to develop nuclear weapons.

They have been caught in an out right lie.



To the implied question of your reply, Iran has never expressed any concern that they are threatened by Israel, that is a complete projection on your part.

The defense of the demented Ahmadinejad is that he is developing it for protection of the Palestinians.

Iran has never been confronted or attacked by Israel. They have lost hundreds of thousands in wars with its neighbors, particularly Iraq.

What, you can't wait to return to the Middle East so you can employ some more Muslims?

Have you been on vacation the last four years, with two naval carrier groups working with the Israelis, trying to provoke an excuse to attack Iran? Have you heard the AIPAC, AJC and other propaganda moves in the US, supporting an Israeli attack on Iran, with US help?

Talk about a one-sided view. Sheesh.

Now it is possible that the point is true but it is still irrelevent because the issue is simply Iran's deception with the IAEA. Now if your not going to make an attempt to stay on point then every discussion on the middle east could be reduced to a discussion of Israel.

But since you have brought it up I will answer the point.


Iran considers Israel to be a moral hazard and a threat to the Palestinian people but they have never considered Israel a strategic threat to their national security. Syria and Iraq provide rather substantial barriers to any Israeli blitzkreg that you imagine that the Iranians may be worried about.

Iran's security concerns are its immediate neighbors. Conflicts with their neighbors have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iranians. As the only Shiite country in the middle east they find themselves at natural odds with their Sunnai neighbors.

Iran remains flexible and practical, even when appearing non ratioal. At the start of the war in Afghanistan, Iran assisted the United States with valuable intelligence.

The people of the middle east are a complex varried group with conflicting interests that do not fit the MSM well and your attempt to reduce them to a simple equation of Israel + Oil = X is a superficial approach that reduces a rich tapestry to a cardboard cutout.

Are they a non-proliferation signatory? No
Do they admit that they have 140 nuclear weapons, mainly bombs? No
Have they threatened to use them, albeit quietly? Yes

talk about a pot calling a kettle black.

Cold Weather.

are standing with us in expecting Iran to comply with the IAEA inspection requirements.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6629083&mesg_id=6629083

http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20090925/1416/tnl-india-rules-out-signing-npt.html

"New Delhi, Sep 24 (PTI)

Shortly after the UN Security Council unanimously passed a resolution asking non-NPT countries to sign the NPT, India today ruled out signing the agreement saying "It cannot support a discriminatory" pact. "As long as some countries possess nuclear weapons we are not prepared to be supportive of a discriminatory treaty that says some countries can have something and others cannot," Minister of State for External Affairs Shashi Tharoor told Times Now.

Earlier, India''s Permanent Representative to the UN Hardeep Singh Puri, in a letter to UNSC President Susan E Rice of the US, rejected efforts to impose NPT on New Delhi and made it clear that it will not sign the pact as a non-weapon state as atomic arsenals are integral to its security."

Israel has never acknowledged it has nuclear arms and (I believe) has never been accused of actually testing nuclear weapons.


The reality is that until the US and Russia reduce their huge number of weapons the smaller holders will simply wait and see.

most countries have signed the NPT with the exception of three... North Korea has withdrawn.

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/sep/24/non-npt-countries-should-join-the-treaty.htm

"The United Nations Security Council on Thursday unanimously adopted a resolution asking all non-Non Proliferation Treaty states to join the treaty at an unprecedented summit chaired by United States President Barack Obama < Images > who signalled that these countries, which include India, must come on board...

...The 'other states', which were not named in the landmark resolution, were a clear reference to Pakistan and India, which have not signed the NPT but are known to have atomic arsenals, and Israel, which neither confirms nor denies having nuclear arms but is believed to have a sizeable stockpile of warheads..."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty#India.2C_Israel_and_Pakistan