On the verge of history

When health reform passes, it will be the first time in history that as many as 95 to 97 percent of Americans, more than 290 million people, will have access to health care.

That's true even if the final bill contains the current public option (HELP), Schumer's or the robust plan being considered by the House.

And to build on.

K&R

and the most generous increase in Medicaid. Let's not forget what we're giving up to get the public option.

It's been a very long crazy Summer since what with all the and

Unless your goal is to help push even more watered down "reform" in order to achieve the goal of a Rose Garden bill signing. Pure political shit. It shows the posters apparent lack of concern for true, and meaningful health care reform in order to make a politician look good. She should quit campaigning and start demanding that those elected actually govern.

has no resemblance of what is likely to be voted on, you are being disingenuous in order to push current "reform" proposals that are so far removed from even the milquetoast "HELP" bill that you cite. Quit spewing bullshit.

option?

Now is time for fighting. Now is time to tell our congresspeople and senators that we need a strong public option and that we need to fix these bills.

You cannot do that if you already think that any bill is a success, and that they know better.

How on earth do you think stating this fact does that?

We are on the verge of something different, but there's no certainty or reason to celebrate it being better and especially not it's being a vehicle to provide insurance or healthcare to 95% of us.

Congress in 2010 could easily undo what was intended before it even starts.

Two problems as I read it: 1. Not going to cover everyone 2. Not going to be initiated in a timely enough manner to assure its starting at all.

The goal is a "Win" , damn the cost.

:rofl:

You folks who's only goal is to advance the persona of a candidate or office holder are the reason nothing ever gets done. Either you are so blinded by a personality, or you motives are far more nefarious, but in any event your end game is to make political points, at any cost, no different then republicans who's only goal is to see Obama fail. No different. Same result, no good.

No current proposal comes close to 97% coverage.

:rofl:

wipe you chin, "m*n***"

Canadians, Brits, Swedes, Germans...(and even Cubans) have had healthcare for all of their citizens for a very long time.

Welcome almost to the rest of the world, America!

The Senate HELP Committee “public option” will be multiple “options,” and these will be run by insurance companies

By Kip Sullivan, JD

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/14/the-senate-help-committee-%e2%80%9cpublic-option%e2%80%9d-will-be-multiple-%e2%80%9coptions%e2%80%9d-and-these-will-be-run-by-insurance-companies/

there sure has been a campaign to discredit those who want a not for profit, health care system for Everyone.

According to Obama quoting the CBO, just over 3% will be enrolled in the PO by 2019, many will choose a private plan and some with tax payer subsidies.

While I do not mind paying extra to help those in need, I do mind paying the extra 30% or so for salaries, advertisements and bonuses to the private insurance companies.

Since the private insurance companies will be losing some of their customers as the baby boom generation moves to Medicare they will be happy with all the new customers. Somehow ????? Medicare savings will pay for HC reform when enrollees in Medicare move from 46 million to 79 million.

She has no interest in what a "reform" bill says, as long as "her man" gets a "win".

when presented with information.

But the public option is Robust!

:D

and for "them"

Paranoia.


:rofl:

all you need to do is respond to any post with "Gobama" , the rest will be implied, it saves all concerned a lot of needless reading and typing.:puke: :eyes: :smoke:

fighting for almost 25 years to try and give everyone access to health care.

:grr:

claim of misinformation by a certain group of physicians.

;-)

2 percent? Disingenuous much?

Using the 5 percent number to slam coverage via a public option is uninformed.

Yes, disingenuous , indeed.

Tissue?

Try this: never speak for me. You want to have a discussion, do so, but don't ever presume to know what I think.

Just shut up, the "Big "O"" knows what is best. he will let us in on his chess game if and when he is ready. But "we" must sit down and be good little Democrats. And what ever the end result is we must jump for joy and bow to the great one. If the end result were a literal "shit sandwich" her response would be "Thank you, Sir, may I have another"!

His job is to listen and then make a decision, and there is no guarantee that everyone will like it. So there's that to deal with.

If the end result is "shit sandwich," you will have to deal with too, regardless of my opinion.

I must tip my hat to you for that. :toast: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Getting ready for plan "B" ALERT THE MODS !!!Just watch, as critical posts go down.

Get help.


:rofl:

:( :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LESS THAN 5% or did you miss that part.

I had already calculated the percentage to be just over 3% from the CBO report, so I knew as soon as he said it would be less than 5, that it was actually between 3 and 4.

We had a similar discussion on this back in September, but let's not change the subject.

Where is Kip Sullivan's analysis of the bill wrong, you said it was more misinformation from PNHP and should be able to back that up with facts.

I have to run, I'll look for your answer later.

:)


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-to-a-Joint-Session-of-Congress-on-Health-Care

"...Now, I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business. They provide a legitimate service, and employ a lot of our friends and neighbors. I just want to hold them accountable. (Applause.) And the insurance reforms that I've already mentioned would do just that. But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. (Applause.) Now, let me be clear. Let me be clear. It would only be an option for those who don't have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up..."


Who would be eligible for the public option changed from what was originally proposed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8665177&mesg_id=8665876

"...(2) NEW AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE HEALTH INSURANCE OPTIONS. The Obama-Biden plan will create a
National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals purchase new affordable health care options if they are uninsured or want new health insurance. Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan, and income-based sliding scale tax credits will be provided for people and families who need it..."

by posting links to what you believe is misinformation.

These physicians have nothing to gain by advocating for a not for profit system for Everyone and to accuse them of spreading misinformation without any proof is pretty low.

Forced purchase == access. meh.

The US just doesn't get it. Thats why they'll be debating this another 50 years yet

have a verrrry log way to go indeed. *sigh*

Hopefully this is only the start of the changes to come, and that we don't stall out here for a few decades. *crossing fingers*

But I will not be at ease until the ink is dry on the final legislation. Our adversaries (and "weak kneed friends") never stop trying to throw up road blocks to progress. I don't think for a second that they have given up attempting to do so this time yet. What was that phrase those pilots used? Ah yes; we can not risk losing our situational awareness. But it does seem, for now at least, that we may be back on course.

Add up the copays and deductibles, mix in no cost control i.e. public option open to tens of millions on day one (which is a must in every other country that allows private ins. in the marketplace), include a welfare program for corporations deceptively named "subsidies for the taxpayer" and throw in a fine for the uninsured who have been re-branded deadbeats and you get health insurance reform that benefits for-profit private companies.

Great job.

Historical...hardly. Just like the historical nafta, historical welfare reform and historical de-regulation the race to the bottom continues unabated.

How many left uninsured???? By 2019. Was that estimate 34 million even with the HELP bill. Yippee!!!

How dare you deny Obama his Rose Garden Signing Ceremony??

35 years of it and the accompanied political celebrations is enough. We've bipartisaned ourselves into becoming conservatives. Hardly worth a celebration.

What good is Obama's "political capital" if he refuses, or is afraid to spend it? He needs to quit worrying about re-election and govern.But I fear he is governing as he wishes. That is what you get when you elect a corporatist.

The proposals being worked on now are IMO a giveaway to the big insurance companies. I'm not celebrating.

Are there more than one billion people in the US? How does covering 97 percent of Americans leave 34 million uninsured?

That would put the population at 750 million to leave 34 million uninsured.

More uninformed shit from you.

:o

Best of the bunch.

Go get 'em, girl!!!
:thumbsup: :rofl: :yourock: :rofl: :thumbsup:

she kicks ass. I love her. Were it not for her posts, I'd go insane in this place.

You, on the other hand, not only voted for him, but now seem to be on some sort of mission to give him a "win" on HCR, no matter how bad the bill is. Obama's "bipartisanship" is a farce, a brass ring that does not even exist. His White House has been "negotiating " with nobody and making compromises to people who have no intention of supporting reform in any event. It is now to the point where the HCR proposals on the table, even the ones that contain what passes for a PO, will in the long run do more harm than good. This is the only bite at this apple we are likely to get for decades, to pass something as watered down and protective of the for-profit industry is beyond the pale of decency. The President has , to this point failed to lead, failed to spend the required capital on this issue. If only "we" had started these negotiations from the place of strength that we Had/have we would be on the verge of real reform, actually "Universal coverage" Something much more akin to Medicare-for all then we are likely to see , now. To roll over on this issue just to give Obama a political win is immoral, and Un-Democratic. This is far too high a price to pay for a nice Ceremony in the Rose Garden.

With help bill 20 million will be insured leaving 34 million uninsured.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10431/07-02-HELPltr.pdf

Insured does not equal access to health care, many will be insured with no affordable access to care.

of what a huge step this will be.

Onward and Upward!

And, that is, after all, the only thing that really counts.

With high deductibles and co-pays, you cannot assume that everybody who has insurance has access to health care. Unless that situation is fixed, more people having insurance will not solve the problem.

The uesless shitstain intermediaries retain their prerogative of not paying on claims, and charging whatever they want to people with pre-existing conditions.

.... since we're currently arguing over whether the President wants to shoot Trigger or ride him off into the sunset.

I think the most likely scenario is that the President believes that competition is key to driving down the cost of health care coverage and that a public option is the best way to achieve this. He's open to any idea that will help accomplish this goal.

We've gone from ARGUING over whether or not there'd be a health care bill that would pass .... to ARGUING over whether or not it would contain a public option to ARGUING over what kind of public option it would have and whether the President is pushing our preferred method.

Given how much has been achieved thus far, it's foolishness.

There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your position, but if someone is so passionate about it that they are going to be miserable if the final bill doesn't include XYZ then they're just asking for heartache.

It's like waking up on election day and being pissed that he didn't win Arkansas.



http://mapscroll.blogspot.com/2009/05/weird-politics-of-underdeveloped-south.html

SPeaking of which, what was UP with Arkansas and TN anyway? And it's not just having "a whole bunch of rednecks" because there's a "whole bunch of rednecks" in MS, AL and Idaho.

Weird.

it seems we are still going to be forced to buy insurance from a for-profit insurance co, unless we are practically destitute... I am saddened that we are not getting honest to goodness, for-real reform

They are poised to preside over The Biggest Transfer of Public Money to Private Industry in the history of the World!

With it's new $1 Trillion Dollar price tag, Health "Insurance" Reform will eclipse even the Great Wall Street Bailout. At least with the Bailout, there was the promise of the public being paid back, but NOT with Health Insurance Reform.

The $1 Trillion Dollar Price Tag does NOT include the $Multi-Billions of Dollars that Americans will be forced to pay out of pocket once the purchase of Private Health Insurance becomes mandated.

The OP is certainly correct...
Never before in American History have the citizens been ordered to purchase a bad product from a private For Profit corporation.

this mandatory purchase of insurance with a possible public option, which they say will only have just over 3% enrolled by 2019.

..a few crumbs thrown to the peasants while the bulk of the $Trillion Dollars is given to the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

majority among the people and have them instead rally behind an idea that was not fully explained.

The great marketing campaign of 2008 and 2009 - selling the PO idea to the people.

They have never cared to even try to reform health care.

and the balance are forced to purchase private insurance from campaign contributors.

:shrug:

But then again the Republicans would never be in favor of expanding Medicaid eligibity, but they might be in favor of tax payer dollars going to the for profit insurance companies.

:)

But the question really is would most on DU be in favor of a PO which enrolled only a very small percentage in a public plan, with the balance being mandated to purchase private insurance? If the Republicans proposed this plan would you support it?

"More PNPH misinformation. n/t"

They are using the CBO prediction as to how many people will sign up for a public option based on its availability through employers with fewer than 20 employees. Now, what about the 16 million people who are uninsured and unemployed? Also, what happens when the exchange is open to larger employers over time?


The fact of the matter is, the public option is going to be part of the exchange and available to anyone who cannot find affordable coverage, whose employer doesn't provide coverage and who is without coverage due to unemployment. The availability will be fluid and growing. So using CBO estimate, which, again, is only the number of percentage who will sign up through their employer, to make the case that this is the only group that will be covered via a public option is bogus.

but my original post in this thread did not even talk about the CBO estimate, that was your attempt to divert attention from the question of one option vs. several options in the HELP bill.

You need to back up your claim that his analysis is misinformation, instead of a broad attack on medical providers who have advocated for a not for profit, national system for almost 25 years.

What language in the bill says that there will definitely be just one public option instead of several?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8714327&mesg_id=8714375

Is the HELP bill one public option or several community options...

Who am I going to believe?

1)an anonymous poster to the internet with a well known track record for posting spin, disinformation, and talking points?

OR

2) The President of the United States, who believes that the "Public Option" will be so unattractive that 3 out of 4 people forced to BUY Health Insurance on "The Exchange" will prefer to buy it from a For Profit Health Insurance Corporation.*

Who to believe....? :shrug:


*In his joint address to Congress on Health Care, Obama stated the "less than 5%" will be enrolled in the "Public Option" by 2019.
The Congressional Budget projects that number to be close to 3% (which IS "less than 5%", so Obama was NOT telling a direct lie.)

More than 40 Million will be forced to purchase Health Insurance from the "Exchange".
OBama believes (and the CBO agrees) that 30 Million of the 40 Million WILL buy from the "For Profit" Health Insurance Corporations.

You want history? Look no further than 90 miles south of Miami. Cubans have free universal health care. Watch Michael Moore's Sicko!

please, try to grasp this simple fact, and stop cheerleading for this sham of a "reform".