BREAKING-OBAMA REJECTS ALL AFGHANISTAN OPTIONS GIVEN TO HIM

Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.

ETA link:

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama does not plan to accept any of the Afghanistan war options presented by his national security team, pushing instead for revisions to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government, a senior administration official said Wednesday.

That push follows strong reservations about a possible troop buildup expressed by the U.S. ambassador in Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, according to a second top administration official. In strongly worded classified cables to Washington, Eikenberry said he had misgivings about sending in new troops while there are still so many questions about the leadership of Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Obama is still close to announcing his revamped war strategy — most likely shortly after he returns from a trip to Asia that ends on Nov. 19.

But the president raised questions at a war council meeting Wednesday that could alter the dynamic of both how many additional troops are sent to Afghanistan and what the timeline would be for their presence in the war zone, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss Obama's thinking

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_afghanistan

ideas from all his advisers and his own council.

I fully thought there would be many more thousands of our precious young men and women going off to die.....

For what?

Wow.

Now, this is change I can believe in.

K&R

through extremely well.

govt., and to make clear our presence is NOT open-ended.

Could you see McCain doing this? I sure could not.

and nope.

...he'd just "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Afghanistan."

I hope President Obama just tells those fucking chicken hawks we are done wasting money on Afghanistan. Not to mention the lives placed in harm's way.

We could call it an "exit strategy."

We have lost enough lives there. It is very heartening to hear the course of the conversation change this morning. Thank God for Eikenberry.

I don't know whether he's posturing for the folks who elected him (us, the masses) or if he's freaking out the $1-trillion per year military industrial complex to shake 'em up some, seeing as how they're the ones with a missle to his head.

I wouldn't have Obama's job for any price.

I guess I was starving for a shred of good news.

instead of the other way around.

It's just another way of making him the "boy" and basically saying he has no authority as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

Of course they were going to criticize him for escalation actions following McChrystal etc. too. Goes without saying.

I was afraid that Obama had fallen into their trap, but apparently not.

He NEEDS to define and state what goals/victory are in Afghanistan and present that to the American people and his assessment of what is achievable.

Won't he get in trouble if he doesn't do what they say?

:sarcasm:

Pres Obama is going to be doing it the way that he thinks is the best for now and the long term..like every other policy he puts forward.

I thought that a President was supposed to do whatever his advisors tell him to do. It's almost as if he's thinking about the issues and making his own decisions. Crazy stuff!

finally.

They'll try to force his hand now.

Here is the Headline

"Military Commanders upset with President's dithering"

He would've caved by now.

.... he gives the impression that he has NO need for an approval rating .... that he would walk away from the whole thing if he wasn't able to do what is right and still be happy with his life and his family. He does what is best for the country BEFORE what may be politically expedient.

And in so doing, retains the trust of the American people.

ran for president and won despite the odds, ignoring the advice from EVERYBODY.

He talks about his fall 2006 appearance on Meet the Press. A candidate always rehearses what questions he might be asked before hand so there's no surprise answers.

At the time, he hadn't even made up his mind if he was running, much less declared his candidacy, but he was THINKING about it. He had flatly denied wanting to run when Tim Russert asked him in the winter of 2006 and it was a truthful statement.

There was a lot of buzz about a possible run because "Audacity" was out and some grassroot support was forming so they thought Russert might ask again. So Plouffe and Axe were trying to think of how he should answer the inevitable question.

After listening to their thoughts the President answered, "well, why I dont just tell him the truth? I can say that I meant what I said several months ago, but since then, I've changed my mind."

Plouffe said that it was at that moment he knew he was dealing someone unlike anyone he'd met before (He'd just recently met him.) .... The answer was SO simple and SO obvious, yet it wasn't the typical heming and hawing a potential candidate might give. It was so mind-blowingly obvious, it just might work.

It was this pragmatic approach to politics that convinced Plouffe to agree to be his campaign manager even against his own better judgement and desires.

And the rest is, literally, history.......

you know-how they followed Obama from the time before he even announced to his election. As a matter of fact, I watched it the same night the HCR bill passed in the House Saturday night before the vote happened. And just from THAT I could see how special Plouffe and all the others thought Obama was.

But thanks for the description of Plouffe's discovery of how unique Obama is. And I remember both appearances of Obama on MTP like they were yesterday.

O/T-I went back to search my DU history to figure out the exact day I became a full-fledged Obama supporter. It was in July 2007 after posting about how Wesley Clark would be such a great president, hoping he would run. But even then I was for a Clark/Obama ticket. FrenchieCat was for Clark, too, and after we knew Clark wasn't running, we were fully behind Obama. And the rest is history. :)

Influence People! He just took Dale Carnegie, the icon of our capitalist business world to the woodshed, and gave him a sound thrashing.

especially at his inauguration-"Barack Hussein Obama." :)

after 4 years if he feels that he didn't do or can't do the things he want. He's not there for the perks.

Great point. That IS a big factor in why I trust the man.

The M$M will never report anything positive about President Obama anyway. He might as well just go ahead and do what is right.

:evilgrin: :party:

Obama realizes they are trying to box him in.

so I expect nothing less...

It is not worth any more than the unnamed sources who said Obama was going to send in 40,000.

And also reiterated and confirmed by Gibbs and others in his cabinet. I had a problem with the article for just that reason. But Obama has stated that he won't send in troops needlessly and he needs to know what can be done to stabilise Afghanistan and how long that would take. He doesn't want to stay there indefinitely and I think the Dover incident added to sobering his position on the matter. So Obama himself has said this in the past. Gibbs has recently confirmed that Obama has made no decision even after countless meetings and briefings. This thread has posted once a week pictures from every meeting for the last 2-3 months. So we know the Generals have been giving suggestions and he still hasn't made move. So he's still considering it which confirms the above report.

Edited for misspeling in title.

.... separately sourced article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8750525

and I am hoping this signals the end to these wars...
Time will tell.

This would be a remarkable step forward and a moment of pride.

I'm so happy this man is president.

Time will tell.

Everybody knows Obama is a war-monger. :P

:P

There are those here that will take you seriously.

:hi: good to see you

didn't even see your post whence I posted mine below:)

stranger!

Obama...sigh :loveya:

And ditto. :D

I think the real problem in Afghanistan now isn't so much the number of troops, it's the fact that the government is no longer viewed as legitimate and elected by the people, how can we convince people to stop fighting us and join our side when the leader of Afghanistan is basically viewed as both ineffective and not legitimate?

Sure we had problems in Iraq at times with Maliliki not looking too effective, but there was never any question that he was legitimately elected by the people, never questions of serious massive fraud like in Afghanistan.

The problem to getting rid of Karzai however, and just trying to start over again is that it could just make things even worse, and cause even more chaos to take place if the people think the US will keep on knocking down any government Afghanistan citizens set up that we don't like. As far as I know the only people that have had any success constantly overthrowing a new government when it gets corrupt have been a country's own military that gets sick of the corruption/etc. I forget what country it was, but there was one army that overthrew their own government like 4 or 5 times before they finally got a new government that wasn't a corrupt dictatorship that pretended to be elected by the people.

EVERYTHING.

I'll bet that wasn't on the table.

:thumbsup:

they would have to kill themselves if they did that!

Hugs and kisses for you!!!

And thanks. I'll take 'em! :)

Just like the previous ones.

;)

Just like the previous reports.

Like the previous reports.

Like previous reports.

I keep getting this bug error when I hit post. Please delete duplicates.

PROTIP: If you get this error, hit back on the browser, copy your text to your computer's clipboard, and refresh the thread you were posting to and see if it actually took. I think you need to be able to accept cookies to post, so you might check that browser setting.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

It must be a problem with the site.

Proposals given to him by his advisors but that there still could be troop increase. I do like the fact that he wants to make it clear that US troop involvement is not open ended. It is excellent that he wants a timeline and process for handing things over to the Afghan government. I also like that Obama is not allowing himself to be railroaded into further involvement in Afghanistan that by any measure would not end well. I figured he would not want to have his Presidency to end up like LBJ nice to have it confirmed.

only as a part of a clear way to end this thing. That's how i see it.

those that want to escalate the war for profit and neo-con whatever. Pleased to see Obama really deliberating, considering all the implications given the corruption in Karzai's govt., and taking civilian control and ownership of the strategy, rather than simply following the military generals advise. BIG change from Bush who just gave the generals what they wanted without question, and without having a strategy or exit plan.

Maybe it's not the end of the war in Afghanistan, but I think Obama's starting to realize that the generals are playing politics, and that it may not be possible to win, or even define conditions of victory in Afghanistan.

Today, he just told the generals, the CIA spooks and the rest of the hawks "Don't blow smoke up my ass or undermine my authority - I'm the President of the United States. Give me the truth, present me with a realistic plan, and obey my orders, or I'll find someone else who will."

...and force them to make a declaration of war, which is where all this belongs constitutionally.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, sometimes referred to as the War Powers Clause, vests in the Congress the exclusive power to declare war, in the following wording:

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Five wars have been declared under the United States Constitution, although there is some controversy as to the exact number.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Clause

because of this, malloy was saying that obama should hand over the how-to-wage-war-in-afghanistan question to congress, since they never declared war in the first place.

by authorizing the President to wage war against Al Qaeda, the Taliban, etc. For the Founders, declaring war was nothing more than publically proclaiming or revealing that the United States is either in a state of war with some other nation or group (this was known as an unconditional declaration of war) or will be in a state of war with some nation or group if certain conditions are not met (that was known as a conditional declaration of war). Declaring war was regarded as the only acceptable way to create a state of war. Thus, only Congress has the constitutional authority to create a state of war. Malloy and those who claim that the US has declared war only five times seem to be confusing a declaration of war with some sort of formal declaration of war in which the word "declare" appears.

I am glad he is taking a stand! Finally! He is now a decisive President that I can support...he has waiting far too long to end the war. The time is now!

be undermining his authority in public, and make a big public example out of them by ending their career and replacing them with someone who will not subvert their CINC.

eom

Time to turn this country away from foreign wars and turn around the economy.

Time to turn this country away from foreign wars and turn around the economy.

Obama winds this down. This is a positive sign.

LINK

3 Obama Advisers Favor More Troops for Afghanistan

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton are coalescing around a proposal to send 30,000 or more additional American troops to Afghanistan, but President Obama remains unsatisfied with answers he has gotten about how vigorously the governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan would help execute a new strategy, administration officials said Tuesday.

----> Obama rejected that proposal and the three others on the table.

President Obama winds this war down.

President Obama ends this.

:)

Who woulda thunk?

I hope this means exit stragety.

:eyes:

There was Dover, Ft. Hood where he spoke with the families of those killed and the wounded, plus the wreath laying event yesterday. Each of those events had to be heart wrenching.

In Sy Hersh's article last night he discussed how in Afghanistan the enemy (taliban/crooks, etc.) was being paid off by contractors that needed safe passage on the roads leading to the troops with supplies. What kind of war is this.......

in order to help make his decision. And I'm sure he knows about the corruption which is why he wants plans detailing how Afghanistan will take over so our troops can come home.

He can't just do a knee jerk switch from his campaign promise to escalate. He has to go through a deliberate process and slowly signal to the American people that escalating is not in the best interest of the American people.


I think that he is going to wait until healthcare legislation passes before announcing his decision on an exit strategy. Then he'll move on to financial regulation or climate legislation.

:eyes: :puke:

What is the RIGHT THING to do in Afghanistan? It's easy to say pull our troops out now, but the consequences have to be considered -- such as the Taliban re-taking Kabul and the Repukes re-taking Congress and the White House when they successfully pin the blame for failure in Afghanistan on Obama and the Democrats.

However, unless the government in Kabul that we have been propping up can clean up the rampant corruption and develop the capability to be an effective government for the whole country, all the blood & treasure we pour into that country will be a tragic waste. We can't stay there forever, so the collapse of a weak corrupt Afghan govt would be inevitable.

Obama is apparently smart enough to understand that unless a vast change in Afghan politics takes place it is useless to conduct a nation-building operation there. The president is also smart enough to understand the political consequences at home if he decides to "cut and run" now. That course of action would require much more POLITICAL COURAGE than implimenting McChrystal's plan to send 40,000 more troops in a futile attempt to control a country that has been the graveyard of empires throughout its history.

This will very likely be the most important decision of Obama's presidency. What he decides and how he explains his decision to the American people will go a long way in determining whether he is the leader our country so desperately needs.

who HAVE served.

encouraging him to wind this war down. He's clearly thinking about it.

Looks like one of the easiest ways to destroy democracy is by bankrupting

the Treasury . . .

Oil . . . privatized military, anyone?

Drugs?

will not be resolved anytime soon if ever. Obama's final decision must be taking that into consideration. There are less than
one hundred Al Qaeda left in Afghanistan so what are we fighting for? I pray Obama has the courage to cut our losses and
bring our troops home. There is nothing to prove, nothing to win and a great deal to lose if we stay.

:toast:

so I simply say this: I did not know just how coiled I was about this decision until I heard the news last night that the decision is not made.
I had begun to believe we will feed 40 000 more troops into the region and it was just a matter of announcing it.
When I sat there with tears in my eyes, and my jaw clenched in wide eyed surprise, the old feelings about "Yes we can" and "hope" came flooding back. The feelings I so treasured that icy morning in Washington on the mall on 1/20/09
Please, Mr. President, do what we elected you to do.
Please.
And while I'm at it, investigate and put the crooks away so we can all breathe freely again.

What is the RIGHT THING to do in Afghanistan? It's easy to say pull our troops out now, but the consequences have to be considered -- such as the Taliban re-taking Kabul and the Repukes re-taking Congress and the White House when they successfully pin the blame for failure in Afghanistan on Obama and the Democrats. Picture the Islamic extremists celebrating their defeat of the "Great Satan" and the field day the rightwing spin machine will have with that.

However, unless the government in Kabul that we have been propping up can clean up the rampant corruption and develop the capability to be an effective government for the whole country, all the blood & treasure we pour into that country will be a tragic waste. We can't stay there forever, so the collapse of a weak corrupt Afghan govt would be inevitable.

Obama is apparently smart enough to understand that unless a vast change in Afghan politics takes place it is useless to conduct a nation-building operation there. The president is also smart enough to understand the political consequences at home if he decides to "cut and run" now. That course of action would require much more POLITICAL COURAGE than implementing McChrystal's plan to send 40,000 more troops in a futile attempt to control a country that has been the graveyard of empires throughout its history.

This will very likely be the most important decision of Obama's presidency. What he decides and how he explains his decision to the American people will go a long way in determining whether he is the leader our country so desperately needs.

I believe ending this war was what the President said he would do. War is Peace.

Obama making noises about possibly de-escalating a no-end-in-sight war.

War profiteers fat and full of 8 years of our tax dollars, not wanting the pumps shut off.

Makes me shiver.