"Soldiers like me have died for weapons we can't find." - Vet on Newshour

This discussion last night on Jim Lehrer's Newshour was fascinating because the feelings were so strong. The Republican vet got freeperish about Kerry which made the Democratic vet indignant. The Democratic vet was visibly moved when discussing one of his soldiers who was blown up for a lie. I thought he made some excellent points.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec04/veterans_9-16.html

<excerpt>

STAN COERR: I think because of that sort of back-and-forth that Kerry is trying to have both ways, I think veterans are pretty well disgusted with him. I can tell you that I have a photograph of myself meeting Sen. Kerry, and the friends that I sent that photograph to think I'm a traitor.

They can't believe that I would even shake hands with that man, and everyone I know, my peers and those I worked with, are all very strong Republicans and they're Bush supporters in this specific campaign.

MARGARET WARNER: Jon Soltz, your response to that.

JON SOLTZ: If John Kerry is a traitor, then so am I. John Kerry fought for his right to come home and question his war in Vietnam; 12,000 Americans died after he testified in the senate. And I fought for my right to question this president's policies in Iraq.

It was a dark day for me when I had to go to the hospital in Germany to see one of my soldiers who was blown up. For the first time in my life, you know, I cried in uniform. I had to look at this guy and I had to say to him, you know, "I hope that this is worth it."

The fact of the matter is this administration is not being truthful with the war in Iraq. They've continually tried to tie it to al-Qaida. We've committed 85 percent of our ground army. Soldiers like me have died for weapons we can't find.

And they let Osama bin Laden run around in Afghanistan with zero of our ten military divisions not allocated to that. They failed us. They failed our soldiers. They failed our men and women in uniform. <more>

Stan Coerr, a major in the marine reserves, was called to active duty last year. He fought in Iraq from March to May of 2003. He's now San Diego co-chair of California Republican Veterans of America.

And Jon Soltz was an army captain who served in Iraq during the occupation, from May to September of 2003. He is now a graduate student at the University of Pittsburgh. He's also Pennsylvania state co- coordinator for the group Veterans for Kerry.

I saw that last night.

Figures. Oh yeah, and he's for Bush because everyone else is. Real original thinker. The Vet for Kerry actually had something to say.

So childish and hateful. The Dem vet was talking about soldiers under himself who had been killed and grievously injured - "blown up" is what he said - and the freeper vet is just name-calling based on no facts.

when they actually let both sides speak? The Republican comes off as mean-spirited and only able to make vague personal attacks while the Dem is able to actually make a decent point.

He was very credible.

The Bushbot had NOTHING.

hmmmmmmmmmmm?

and I think he handled himself exceptionally well. I don't understand how veterans can support a man with such blatant and callous disregard for their lives. I would like to see the breakdown of support based on the branch of the armed forces as well as breakdown the socio-economic background of each branch. For example: Marines, who while in the front make huge sacrifices, seem to be utterly and unquestioningly devoted to *. I don't mean to offend and I'm not generalizing with this next statement, it is merely my experience... When I was a child, my young aunt married an older man (she: 21 he: 37) and he decided at that point to join the Marines. When he came home from boot camp, every thing he did was as a Marine. Every other word out of his mouth was Ooh-rah. My cousins, Ooh-rah was their first word. Is this usual? Or was my "uncle" just a random nut-ball? He may be. He and my aunt divorced shortly thereafter (maybe 20 years ago) and has only recently come back into my cousins' lives (as a cancer survivor, recovering alcoholic, and newly pious man). Forgive me if I seem ignorant, but I would be interested in understanding the different mindsets.

A great many of them seem to disregard (or think its macho to disregard) unnecessary bloodshed. Probably because the USMC is designed as a shock force, and inculcates the mentality that "occupation duties" are for the US Army.

Army troopies, on the other hand, are much more cautious about ground war involvement.

You need only look at the Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs to realize this truth. Army JCS Chairmen are relative doves compared to Navy and Air Force counterparts, probably because those services seldom see the carnage from close up.

Guess what? The ol' leatherneck was a Democrat! Not too liberal, but being a police sgt., and having grown up poor, he understood the economic issues enough to know that the Dems were far and away the better choice. He even gave campaign donations to all the local candidates- mayor, city council, congress, Senate...
He was a hard ass SOB but pretty decent guy underneath.