HELP! I just found out my friends are republican!

My wife and I just spent a long road-trip with a friend; from the very center of CT, across the rolling hills of PA, right into the heart of Bushland, on the OH/PA border. Bush/Cheney signs were everywhere. Everyone had an American flag on his or her shirt/antenna/bumper/window/donut shop, whatever. Not that American flags are bad things, mind you, but...you know the context here.

Over the course of our trip, I found out that my friend considers himself a "libertarian." Having known him for five years, I am pretty certain he only heard of the term within the last few months, and now only uses it because he's too embarrassed to publicly declare support for Bush.

We've known he has money, but he was never showy about it...only bought a nice fancy imported car last year after driving a Ford shitbox for 180,000 miles. He and his wife lived in an apartment, and only recently bought a house. So, while I suspected that he was probably more on the right side of the fence, our relationship was a weekend drinks-and-dinner type of deal, not super close. This was the first travelling together. I harrassed him about his political affiliation (and wanted to toss him out onto I-80), and suggested that if he is really a libertarian, he should vote Bush out of office.

He said he wasn't going to "throw away his vote" this year by voting for either Bush or Kerry. So again, I said, if you're upset with the way things are going, you MUST vote for John Kerry, because under George Bush, things are going to get much worse.

"Kerry sucks," he said. I agreed. But, I continued, John Kerry still understands the need for environmental laws, blah blah blah.

"Why waste my vote?" He kept reciting it like a talking point, as if it absolved him from any responsibility.

"This year, you will be wasting your vote only if you DON'T vote. A vote for either Kerry OR Bush is monumentally important...NOT voting this year is not an option," I told him.

I explained why this was about so much more than just who runs the White House...I explained the issue almost exclusively on the terms of the SCOTUS, and the Bush family history, how they were not scholars or artists or philanthropists or even real working men...they were just a family of paper-pushing crooks, and that now that they had been exposed (the Bush ties to Saud, the war, etc), there was no way anyone in his right mind could vote to keep him in office. HE AGREED, and repeated that he just wasn't voting. Then he made a Kennedy (JFK) reference. Of course...I'm a liberal, I must worship at the alter of the Kennedy's. I agreed with him that the Kennedy's, and even the Kerry's, were just rich folks working the system, but AGAIN, they are not using their powers for evil. Tereza's foundation doles out billions, the Kennedy's have done more to help real people than a thousand Bush's.

Ugh...Kerry is a jerk. He's monotonous. Blah blah.

I was beginning to understand. In his next attempt to support his position, deflection 2 (at least), he mentioned how if we thought HE was bad, at least he was trying to get his wife to stop watching O'Reilly and Fox. I almost swerved off the road when I heard that. I like(d) the guy's wife! They have money, though. A good deal of it. 35 and 41, no kids. Of course. It all adds up.

He frequently talked down everybody...the Canadians we partied with ("what the fuck good are Canadians? They're nothing without us!"), anyone "not paying their way," the whole gamut. It was a bittersweet trip...we won the tournament we travelled to, but in the twenty hours of driving, I broke through the buffer zone of an informal relationship, and delved into politics, and found out my friends of five years actually kind of disgust me.

Is there any going back? Do I try to sway them, or run like hell? My wife and I really do like them, but Jesus...they're probably voting for Bush. Abby, what do I do?

Troubled In Connecticut

Maybe 1 or 2 of them I know are super liberal. But other than that, I'd just assume not know and not let politics get in the way of friendship.

Being un/under-employed for 4 years will do that to you. Even the "Archie Bunkers" that hang around drinking coffee at McDonalds every moring are bitching about Bush!

I am convinced that Bush supporters are just the psycho loony nutcases, and Kerry will win by a landslide. If he does not, this nation is truely too stupid to live.

Except for one person I've known since 7th grade, all my friends are liberal. I just don't respect people who are not, and I just can't be friends with them. I can be superficial acquaintances, and friendly to a point, but that is it. However, this is absolutely no problem for me because I live in Portland, Ore. If I lived in a redder area, I might have to reconsider my policy.

It does help to have advance warning. My best friend is a Republican, as are others. She just ignores my ranting whenever we talk, I appreciate her gracious behavior. Other friends/acquaintances who are die hard Bush fans, we agree to disagree and stay away from political ciscourse. Sometimes that is very difficult, particularly for me. I have a hard time not discussing the subject and keeping my mouth shut. These are people that will not be convinced otherwise to change their support for Bush, just like I cannot be convinced to change my support for Kerry and against Bush. As serious as this election is, as vital as the outcome is, friends is friends, and politics should not interfere.

Background: Best friend for 20 years - she was Army brat, married a fine GI, hauled ass with him all over the world, they put in 20 and retired, now has a daughter married to an Army officer. Son-in-law just got back from Iraq with the 101st. She has been a repug from the top of her head to the absolute bottom of her feet her entire life.

We have always respectfully agreed to disagree. Back before the 2000 election I told everyone (especially her) who would listen that if Bush is elected that everything - and I mean everything - would go to hell in a hand basket for America. This was long before 9/11.

Now her total and complete hatred of anything Clinton would have "forced" her to vote for Bush even if he had run on the Party of Satan (which when you think about it....) if she had to. She brought the party line, Bush is conservative, Bush will do away with entitlements, Bush, Bush, Bush, gonna, gonna, gonna.

My love and friendship for this person is the only thing that kept me from planting my foot in her ass and putting a pair of dirty socks in her mouth. Restraint on my country's future is not usually my strong suit.

Anyway, we live several hours apart but talk on the phone 2-3 times a week. I have avoided all talk of the election with her. Knew there are some people who will never change their mind, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Well, she called me and brought up the subject of the election. Hallelujah! I could finally say my piece. But, no, before I could launch into my spiel she said, "I hate, really HATE, to admit this, but you have been right about Bush and this administration all along. I cannot believe what a mess the country is in, the economy, the war, yadda, yadda, yadda."

This is big in my world - because if she see the truth - there is hope for all the other people who suffer from the head-up-the-ass-itis. The cure? You just build of a resistance to BoyGeorge from exposure.

Not all Republicans are evil or misguided or any of the things we see posted here so often. Most are actually decent people. One assumes that the things that made them friends in teh first place are still there. thier choice of political affiliation really dosen't affect that.

Reich wing fundamentalist, the PNAC 100 year Reich, and the corrupt, thieving, big spending fascist wings of the republican party every time they vote republican. I tell this to many decent republicans that I know. I also tell them that real republicans need to either take back their party or stop voting republican.

Ask your friend to list two or three of the most important issues to him -- the things that most influence who he decides to vote for.

Then ask him to tell you what he wants the president -- any president -- to do about those issues. For instance, if he says fiscal responsibility is a big issue, he might then say he expects the president to hold down spending and not run up the deficit.

And then proceed to explain how Kerry would better achieve those goals than Bush.

Ask him to list one or two qualities that he most admires in Bush. If he says he admires his decisiveness, tell him to read the story on Salon's site today about how horribly he micromanaged and fucked up the Fallujah operation, resulting in the waste of Marine lives. Show him the comments from Marine Gen. James Conway as he turned over command last week.

He is driven by fashion and symbol. There is no way to reach him on facts.

Only by talking Bush down as a preppy punk who never finished anything he started until his daddy bought him the presidency can you possibly inject any doubt. Only by having his daddy's friends run the whole thing can he cope. Facts won't do it for these folks.

Otherwise, steer clear of the subject. If they won't let you steer clear of it, then steer clear of them.

Sometimes they're just good people who are WRONG. Sometimes, that wrongness makes good people go wrong, themselves. I hate to see friendships ended because some folks are too pigheaded to let go of a fantasy about what Bush is supposed to be.

Then again, I sometimes find that attitude spills over into other areas, as well. Good luck.

his life was directly affected by Bush's policies. He's rich and getting a huge tax break, probably has healthcare--higher than he wants to pay, but still healthcare. Doesn't have any reason to vote Democratic. These kind of people (and I know a few myself) don't care unless it directly affects them.

Sad thing is, it's not only selfish to be as self-absorbed with himself as he is, but he doesn't realize how Bush's policies are suffocating the middle class. Yes, unfortunately, I have a brother-in-law like this:eyes:

we need to dispell the myth that democrats are wild eyed loonies. Some day when one of his friends goes off on how democrats only want to destroy the world, are satanistic secularists or whatever, he might think of you and say to himself "Atman is a decent guy, what they are saying about democrats might not be true."

It's the only hope for our painfully divided nation. Let him know you are not only a democrat but a liberal one. Try to keep yourself from getting emotional (very difficult in an election year, I know) and remember, you have a mission to show your friend by example how decent democrats are.

Further, we need to dispel the idea that ALL Republicans are freepers. Many of them are just as aghast at many of this administrations as Democrats/liberals. Many others would be, if they weren't blinded by the media blitzes.

I know, because I'm a Republican (albeit with many centrist or liberal views.) I've found I've got far more in common with the viewpoints here on DU than with the current administration.

"He said he wasn't going to "throw away his vote" this year by voting for either Bush or Kerry.

Voting for someone other than Bush is the next best thing to voting for Kerry. One less vote for Bush!

I can't talk to the brainwashed type of Republicans. I don't even try. I write them off. They lack humanity, and that's a requirement in my friendships.

It seems to me that you have done all you can to get through to this guy and his wife. When you see that someone is diametrically opposed to your own beliefs, you would do better to associate with others who are more compatible with you. You can still be polite to this guy, but decline to go on any more trips with him. You will be happier being with people who share your views. Why get stressed out over others who are determined not to change?

Some people have opinions that are derived from their core values. Some have opinions formed from the specific information sources they are most in contact with. Most peoples opinions are a mix of those two things.

Your friends sound like they are at the point I suspect many Republicans are. They've long believed in the correctness of the Republican parties positions, listened to right wing information sources, trusting that they are fair and balanced. But now, they are seeing troubling things happening that are in direct contradiction to the logic structures they've built up over the years. They're confused and not willing to make a decision based on information they are no longer secure about. That's a rational choice.

You liked them before you knew about this. And it sounds like they need to information and viewpoints you can provide. Why not continue?

Why do you think that Kerry sucks?

all of us have noticed that friends, lovers, business associates,
acquaintances have the evil taint of elephant shit. Yet we
need to work with them, live with them, bump shoulders with them.
Whatever the outcome of the election, we have to figure out how
to mend our relationships.
This is going to damage us in ways we haven't even thought of yet.

It's a matter of character. Since the whole basis of their philosophy is "me first", you can bet that any time your friendship is tested, they'll leave you hanging like a chad.

People who are truly concerned with the welfare of others make the only lasting friends. The rest are acquaintances (or relatives!).

"Me first" ought to be the official repuke motto. Insensitivity is another trait. When my father-in-law passed away a repuke I've known since grade school went on and on about the inheritance tax she had to pay when her dad died and how the government was about to "screw" us. Never dawned on her that some people don't leave big bucks behind. In her world everybody has money, and no one wants to share.

Ask him what a liberal is. Correct him. Then ask him, "did you get that nonsense about liberalism from a liberal, or from an opponent of liberalism lying about what liberalism is?"

Discuss issues. In detail. Explain WHY!!!

Give him some very simple facts that are not spin and can not be spun. Here's a short list:

The lowest stock market increase during a Democratic presidency since the Great Depression was higher than the highest stock market increase during a Republican presidency. Yes, the stock market under Carter outperformed the stock market under Reagan.

Unemployment decreased under every Democratic president during that time frame. Reagan is the only Republican to end up lower than when he started, but unemployment increased shortly after his taking office and climbed to record highs where it remained until his final months.

The Iranians took American hostages during the Carter administration. Rather than pay the demanded ransom, Carter ordered the creation of "Delta Force" which didn't work out too well on their very first mission. Reagan took office and paid the ransom. Islamic terrorists began taking American hostages on a routine basis with Reagan and Bush paying the ransoms. In one celebrated case the hostage was executed after paying of the ransom, but the policy of paying ransom continued right through the end of the Bush administration. An Islamic power took one American hostage (a Blackhawk pilot in Somalia) early in Clinton's administration. Clinton reversed the Reagan/Bush policy returning to the Carter policy of non-appeasement by sending the Marines back to the Somalia. No American was taken hostage by an Islamic terrorist group again until W's invasion of Iraq. If your friend believes TALK that SOUNDS close to appeasement is worse than actions that ARE appeasement, then by all means, vote Republican. Should he be surprised that the party of business believes they can just buy our way out of any problem that comes along?

One of my favorite people in the world is a Republican. We mostly laugh at each other and rarely argue about it. He's a wonderful guy and a great father to my son's best friend; he's just sorely misguided. He's one of the many "underinformed"; his support for Bush is based mostly on the mixed up idea that Bush will keep his taxes down and keep the terrorists out. He's wrong, in my opinion, but that doesn't make him a bad guy. We do share many similar viewpoints on other things, and have lots to agree on.

It sounds like this might not be the case with your friend, but I don't think we should ever write off a friendship because of political (or religious) opinions.

Political viewpoints say much about one's core values. And core values are at the heart of close friendships.

"He said he wasn't going to "throw away his vote" this year by voting for either Bush or Kerry"

So what makes you think he'll vote for Bush?

I have repug's for friends. They have a different ideology than I do...they aren't trying to get my kids addicted to crack.

talk with them, try to influence them. If your relationship is based on the idea that you and your friends must have the same political identity, then you probably need to look up another word for shallow in the dictionary and move on.

If my friends and I disagree on something (which, if you haven't noticed, there are plenty of reasons to disagree with anyone during this election season), we get heated...and in the end, we hope the other is wrong and get on with the real reason we are together...the actual friendship.

Very mushy.

He sounds like a bigoted jerk who happens to be a republican. Who needs people like this?

Go back to occasional dinner & drinks. No more road trips.

to your friend that this election is not so much about the issues but about removing a cancer that is spreading throughout the WH and our government.....we have idealogues and very corrupt people in the WH that have committed so many crimes, many of which are leading to the deaths of so many innocent people....they are a danger to our constitution and we need someone (anyone) who will bring back order to the executive branch of the government.

Problem solved! :evilgrin:

these people prefer a the "dictator" Bush???? - something is very wrong and you should bolt.

It's easier that way.

Everyone on our street here seemed nice enough. For years. Then for some reason I can't remember, politics came up and I found out I am surrounded by ideologues. No exaggeration. I criticized one little thing about * and they all freaked. Quietly, though. Sneering is very quiet. I was no longer someone to be taken seriously. Charming.

On the positive side, I can easily tell which candidates I should be pulling for in an election. I simply look at the signs on the lawns in the neighborhood and then seek out info. about those candidates' opponents. They've never steered me wrong, yet! Oddly enough, they haven't put out signs this year. Not a B/C sign to be seen for blocks. Eerie, really. Not that I mind, but still -- Eerie.

If you should happen to convince him to vote, he's more likely to vote for Bush* than for Kerry. Tell him he's a wise man for not voting and consider the matter closed.

it isn't contagious :)
If you feel the friendship is something you wish to maintain, maybe you can engage him a bit more intellectually. In my case, it doesn't bother me if someone votes different than I, but give me a substantial reason why you do so. The standard, 'he sucks' doesn't cut it. If your friend cannot lobby for his position with reasons that are at least well thought out, then cut the cord baby.........

He's an intelligent politician (a word that is not a pejorative as far as I'm concerned)who knows that stakes are high.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x825233

Hang in there.

RTP