My post-debate discussion with my Repub. Fox-watching father

I live on the opposite coast from my parents but I'm visitng for the week. I'm trying to win Kerry two more votes in Pennsylvania.

We had to watch in separate rooms. We remained separated for about half an hour until he came in and asked who I thought won.

What followed was a pretty heated and spirited discussion.

His big point FOR Bush is that "We haven't been attacked since 9/11"

He watches Fox News only. He DID NOT know any of the following:

-The existence or the title of the August 6th PBD.
-Bush being on vacation for 40% of his presidency.
-Clinton had managed to stop Osama
-Clinton had inspectors in Iraq in the 90s
-Saddam killing so many people after the first Gulf War-when we pulled out too early
-Saddam (and Kim Jon Il for that matter) are NOT terrorists but dictators.
-ANY of the latest info from this weekend (bad intell, not enough soldiers)

I could go on and on but it amazes me how much of this Fox viewers don't know about. I feel that given a few more days I may change his mind.

Wish me luck!

It is thanks to this site and all of you that I was able to spout off all these facts. SO thanks again to all of you!!!

*editing to add another thing he didn't know...exactly what the war resolution said. He seemed surprised when I told him.

you have a tough job

you have to deprogram as well as educate.

A Repuke friend of mine used the "no one has attacked us since 9/11" angle.

COmplete no win. I said being attacked helps Bush more than not being attacked, because it would rekinkle our nations lust for revenge and would get fickle independents and moderates to move to the Bush column.

That "no one has attacked us angle" is a horrible horrible talking point. The only way I know to refute it is what I wrote above and that is easily 20+ words.

Foxwashed is bad.

or getting more info from the internet - BBC at least - or something - that would go a long way.

but since I've been on vacation mode I feel like I'm out of the loop-especially on the latest developments.

He really loves Bill O'Reilly though...this will be hard BUT not impossible!

Then I have to work on my mom...:scared:

...that is floating around. Bush-Cheney are not conservatives. Is your father a conservative? Point out the ways that Bushco have violated conservative tenets. Maybe he could read some of Patrick Buchanan's stuff -- the latest book is called "Where the Right Went Wrong."

they are content to live in their insulated bubble of fear and insecturity as an excuse for what is going on in the world. he sounds like he is more intelligent than the foxnews base in that he is willing to listen to you. i hope you can sway him, and i wish i could do the same for my own dad but its no use. he honestly believes that bush is a man of character and kerry isn't.

I mean, not on the scale of 9/11, but still...
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/07/04/la.airport.shooting/

Anyway, from February 1993 (barely a month after Clinton was inaugurated) until the end of his term we did not have any other foreign terrorist attacks in the U.S. And if he brings up Oklahoma City, well, that was a Conservative Christian.

As hard as it sounds... sometimes ya just have to let 'em go their own way. I've had to do this on MANY occasions. If you show 'em the facts and they still can't see it... they're completely lost. Love 'em despite their vote!

it reminds me of a joke. Some guy is going around beating a couple of trash can lids together. Another guy asks him why he's doing that since it's disturbing a lot of people. The first guy says he's keeping us from being trampled by a herd of wild elephants. The second guy says that there aren't any wild elephants around here. The first guy says, see it works!

That might push him over to our side.. consider it an education for him. I think he'd watch it..

parents to watch. I'm hopeful.

My nephews were over last night and they we saying they loved Fahrenheit 9/11. Maybe they can get them to watch it in a few weeks.

My nephews even went to see Edwards when he was here.

Besides, Bush* went on vacation and FAILED to stop 9/11, compared to Bill Clinton who stopped the millenium terrorists before they could cross the border!

I'm surprised that he didn't know it.

and also blaming Clinton. But he also backed down on a few things...even admitting Iraq is a mess but "would you rather be fighting them there or here?"

It's like Fox repeats these lines so much their viewers memorize them.

I know...duh!

As we age we become less susceptible to facts and more susceptible to emotions. This is a fact, and salesmen use it all the time on oldsters. It is important that before you present your fact that you first illustrate the concept/idea with a story.

Yes, tell a story then tell your fact. Gets 'em every time. And it's not just for old people, we must all start doing this. It works.

And our troops are attacked every day.