Moving to Maryland

probably Baltimore - we are looking for an urban neighborhood that is clean, culturally diverse, self-sustaining (i.e. lots of individually owned businesses), excellent schools (we have small kids) and forward thinking.

We are probably what you would call middle class and we aren't looking to buy a huge house. Already got caught trying to keep up with the Jones's once and it left an empty feeling in our stomachs. We're more interested in developing long lasting community relationships and putting down roots. Everyone is so spread out where we live now and confined to their back yards which are surrounded by 6 foot privacy fences.

Any advice on good neighborhoods to investigate is greatly appreciated. We are sick to death of living in the vast, red Midwest!

That you might want to check out are the Roland Park area and the Ashburton area. The Northwood area (which in located in Northeast Baltimore) is also a pretty good area. That's the area where I was raised. Also, try some areas in the surrounding counties.

Fell's Point, Locust Point, Federal Hill.

Great if you like to experience the nightlife and if you plan to work in the city.

and i can say that it meets many of your standards... nice neighborhood, mostly small businesses, decent schools, etc.

it is a bit pricey though, but it is one of my favorite inner city neighborhoods.

columbia has a variety of living styles (condos, apartments, homes, etc.) The schools are very good here. If schools are important consider Howard County and Columbia. Also, auto insurance will be less in Columbia. Send me an e-mail or instant message me if you are interested in more information.

there is so much you can learn about a place online, but then again there is so much that you cannot! We're going to make a trip to Maryland after the first of the year to see things for ourselves, so any foreknowledge will be most helpful!

but you may have a hard time finding something to buy in your price range. Columbia is very expensive. We were in sticker shock when we moved here from the mid West in 1991, and the housing prices have only skyrocketed from there.

We bought a 4 bedroom house in Bowie (with land) last year for about what we would have paid for a small townhouse in Columbia with a postage-stamp lawn. Also, if you don't have a Homeowner's Association where you live, you may feel stifled by the number of property appearance ordinances they have there.

We loved Columbia when we rented there, but buying there just wasn't worth the price.

Baltimore has many neighborhoods that are really great to live in, but the school system has a lot of problems. Also, real estate taxes in Baltimore city are very high.

On the plus side, there is cultural diversity here, with lots to do, lots to eat (my weakness), a good public transportation system.

It sounds like you may want to look into a rowhouse neighborhood rather than someplace like Roland Park (which someone mentioned)--which is extremely pricey and not too diverse, but lovely to look at. Charles Village may fit your needs. Its a mostly townhouse neighborhood(large, older rowhomes) near Johns Hopkins University, museums, culturally and ethnically diverse. Although many many homes in Charles Village have large fences in their backyards and that may be a minus for you, they seem to have an active community association.

If you want less expensive rowhomes, there are numerous pleasant neighborhoods with relatively more modern, smaller joined houses that have just chain link fencing in the rear.

Perhaps a review of the Sunpapers Real Estate section would be worthwhile (for the online archives I believe you need to pay). They do reviews of neighborhoods often. Also, Baltimore magazine back issues may be helpful, sometimes they have special issues on Baltimore neighborhoods. You might be able to find these on eBay.

And finally, but maybe first, go to this website:

http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/neighborhoods/

I loved it. Baltimore is a great town if you know where to go

Just wanted to throw my .02 cents in about my little town.
We are 5 mins. away from Balt. City and have great schools as well. There are usually some places for rent, either rowhouses or single family. You can take a look at our website which has some history info as well as all the other info you may need.
http://www.paradiseincatonsville.com

Good Luck

Catonsville is very nice. Single family homes that run the gamut from modest to 1920's to huge and new, to 1950's tract housing, to huge old barns of places with large lots. Wide price range, too.

The old but now gentrified neigborhoods in and around the inner harbor area. Federal Hill (pricey), Canton (pricey), Butchers Hill (less pricey), South Baltimore (immediately south of federal Hill, below Fort Ave) (reasonable to "urban pioneering but **will** appreciate in value).
Uptown you have many other neighborhoods already mentioned. The issue with Baltimore City is the schools. Typical urban school system.

Howard County (where we live) is very nice. Excellent schools. Getting very pricey the last few years (100% to 150% appreciation in the last few years).

Baltimore County is also an option.

With respect to Baltimore City, the specific neighborhood is **extremely* important. Even crossing a street could put yopu in a different neighborhood and have very different values for essentially the same house. Similar in Baltimore County, but quite such abrupt changes.

I think you'll really enjoy Baltimore if you give it a chance. Get into it. It isn't called Charm City for nothing! Seriously, let the city grow on you. It has a lot going for it. Diversity, a surprisingly cosmopolitan flavor, lots of tradition. On the downside ... its a big city and all that comes with that. With kids, ya gotta be careful.

thanks so much for all the tips thus far. We will be making a trip to the area in March to see what there is to see for ourselves, but I want to get a good vantage point to jump off from rather than driving around aimlessly, and you all continue to paint the picture broader and broader for me.

We will most likely rent there until we get to know the area better. I am curious about the Baltimore City Schools- atrocious or just typical city system? Even with renting, I'd ideally love to rent in an area that we *might* end up buying it so that my son doesn't have to change schools more than once(for the move from OK) Even here in Oklahoma we have the Tulsa city school system, and then out where I live the BA school system, which is supposed to be one of the best in the state. However, I am always reading about all of the new things they are trying in an effort to make the schools better in Tulsa, whereas our school system here seems a bit stagnant.

are pretty awful, but the Mayor is trying to reform them now.

the city schools in general aren't that great but there are some that are pretty good. federal hill elementary is good, and francis scott key elementary.

consider doing some research when you are in the area.. maybe checking some schools out and asking the admin staff some questions about the school and the area.

here is a link to the baltimore city school system web site that may help:

http://www.bcps.k12.md.us/

Just outside of the Washington, D.C. beltway next to the Baltimore - Washington Parkway - so a commute to Baltimore is feasible - though I would probably go with Columbia if you really need to commute to Baltimore. Greenbelt has a metro station on the Green line so access to downtown D.C. and close-in Maryland and Virginia suburbs is excellent. There are several different kinds of affordable housing - including the older Greenbelt Homes Inc. (a cooperative) if all you need is a 2-3 bedroom townhouse of less than 900 sq. ft. Those houses are small but well-built - not much to look at outside -but functional and within walking distance of lots of amenities - including great fitness center with indoor and outdoor pool, grocery store, movie theater, good Chinese restaurant. Lots of pocket parks and playgrounds and great picnicing/running/hiking/biking areas. Check out Greenbelt.com if you want to know much more. You may have guessed - I live there. Oh and if you need another incentive....
Kerry 80%; Bush 18%; others 2%

I would never recommend the metro-DC area to anyone! And I am from there.

The traffic is out of control. It can only be compared to LA except the roads are in worse condition.

Homes are outrageously priced and the area just screams "suburban sprawl."

It beats Disney World.


Born and raised here.

grip:
"The traffic is out of control. It can only be compared to LA except the roads are in worse condition."

It is bad, with a lot fewer roads than LA. The surface streets are terrible in the District, but not elsewhere. DC is a strong argument for off-road vehicles, though even there more roads are getting repaired.

"Homes are outrageously priced and the area just screams "suburban sprawl.""

well, this is like metro-anywhere, in terms of sprawl, and guess what?
DC Metro area is #12 in median house prices, after areas in CA, NY/NJ, and HI, per the Post last week.


The 'burbs are pretty, too.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Go to http://www.homesdatabase.com

Good luck!

I used to live right across from the Johns Hopkins campus and the Baltimore Museum of Art. A few blocks to the north is one of the wealthiest areas of the city, so I imagine the neighborhood school is quite good. The Calvert Day School is also in that area, and if you're looking for a private school, it's quite good...I use their homeschool curriculum with my 6 year old. Charles Village is also close to the zoo.

Keep us posted on what you think!

Check out Rodgers Forge. It's in Baltimore County, just north of the city line, just south of Towson. Excellent schools. Great neighborhood, very family-oriented.
http://www.rodgersforge.org/

cheers,
shireen

Thanks for the good recommendations regarding schools. I'm going to need them!

I live in SoBo (South Baltimore) and it's REALLY convenient to get to work
(down the Balto-Wash Pkwy to the NE DC burbs), but if I lived in say Hampden,
Charles Village or Canton half my battle in the morning would be to get
THRU the city to the fast hwy south. I carpool with a guy in Fells Pt (east
of downtown). It takes him 15-30 minutes to get to my house (2-3 miles)
then it takes us 30-40 minutes to get to work. Also, public transport in
Baltimore is LOUSY. There's one subway line that doesn't really go anywhere
(just to the NE burbs and no one rides it!), and a 'light rail' that's great in
principle but again, it doesn't "go anywhere" (is underutilized). Buses are
ok once you get to know the system and taxis are convenient if you live
in a 'popular' 'hood (e.g. I never have ANY problem getting a cab in FedHill).

I'd dig living in other parts of B'more, but I'd HATE the commute thru city
traffic every morning and evening. What I'd LOVE is a job downtown
I could WALK to.

I recommend SoBo highly but it's getting ridiculous. My next door neighbor
paid about $160k for her house 4 yrs ago and just sold for $350k. For a
1500sq ft rowhouse! Still, you can't beat walking everywhere (shops, restaurants,
Inner Harbor, Ft McHenry, pubs, etc). Er, but SoBo/FedHill are NOT 'culturally
diverse'. It's basically WASPtown, though there IS cultural diversity from the
multigeneration white working class who share blocks of SoBo with yuppie
gentrifiers. Most of my neighborhood friends are old timers though they'd
probably classify me as a yuppie (though maybe they begrudgingly respect
me for driving a 40yr old car and living in and fixing up my own house rather
than buying a 'gutjob' 100% renovation).

All of the new, hip, gentrifying neighborhoods have pretty decent elementary
schools. Some gentrifiers I know say you get 'until the kids are in middle school'
to decide whether to stay in the city (and choose between crummy middle and
high schools or go Private) or move to the burbs.

All in all I think Baltimore is very underrated, standing in the shadows of the
other east coast cities like DC and Philly (and I've lived in all three). People
here are nicer, more generous and the tradition of sitting on the 'stoops'
outside in the summer makes for quick, long time friendships (if you take
advantage and don't just live in your house, jump in your car, and never
speak to your neighbors!).

If you want real cultural diversity, with park land and access to hipster areas,
I recommend Butcher's Hill. You get the large park (Patterson), and you're
close to Greektown, Upper Fells Point (large hispanic and afro-am pops),
Fells Pt (yuppietown), Highlandtown (multigenerational immigrant europeans
like slavs, germans, etc) and Canton. There are some huge homes in Butcher's
Hill still reasonably priced (though still crazy compared to even 3-4 yrs ago).

Bigby

are very nice neighborhoods and still affordable and have some good schools. If you are looking for a bit more density, think about Charles Village or Waverly. There are plenty of areas I'm sure I'm leaving out, but Baltimore has lots of great neighborhoods and still some good schools despite what you hear. I am a native Baltimorean and returned after graduate school. It is a really good city, in spite of its problems.

There are also neighborhoods that have zoomed past affordable into insane like Roland Park, Mount Washington, Federal Hill, and Canton. There is no good reason to pay a huge premium for prestige or trendiness.

Baltimore is not immune to neigbor envy. Soon enough all the surrounding areas to those neighborhoods will see the same thing. Maybe not to quite the same degree, but they *will* go up. We bouhgt a row house in South Baltimore (neighborhood immediately south of Federal Hill) and already we're seeing a fast rising tide with respect to home values. Our son is living in the house and doing the renovations. Were we to sell today (after just about a year) we'd be seeing one hell of a return on investment!

between canton and Patterson Park, it is really nice and clean and much more affordable than the yuppified Canton and Fed Hill

I agree.

Oh, and sorry if I offended anyone (you know who you are).

I live here.

I have two kids (8 and 1yr). Hamilton Elementary-Middle is a good BCPS. The parents are very involved.

Kids play in the streets and the area has real neighborhoods.

You have lots of places to eat and shop and all are within walking distance. The big malls are also a short drive away (if that's your thing). White Marsh (15min drive) has a nice IKEA.

Most of the folks here mentioned areas that are better for young singles. My wife went to grad school at MICA and I really wouldn't recommend downtown for raising small children.

Roland Park is a good be if you have the money but I don't know about the school situation. I don't think your average Roland Park resident sends their kids to BCPS. Roland Park is also sort of out of the way so you will have to drive if you want to go to the store.

When we first moved to the area (1978) we bought a house right nest door in Overlea (but 1/2 block INside the city - most of Overlea is in the County). Single family homes, small but nice yards, overall a nice place to live and to raise kids. I haven't been to Overlea other than a ride down Belair Rd once or twice a year, in a long long time but it doesn't appear to have changed much one way or the other. That tells me it is extraordinarily stable or its a forgotten area. I also suspect home values have probably risen with the average rather than spectacularly. That could make it a real value.

However, if one is working south of the city, its a bitch to get there.

it is just one of those City/County communities lost in the NE Baltimore/Towson sprawl

I live in Baltimore and I really, really like it. I suggest that you check out www.livebaltimore.com, a wonderful site that has all kinds of information about neighborhoods, tax breaks/incentives for new homebuyers, etc. (and I no, I do not work for or have any affiliation with them.)