A true leader takes an unpopular stand before the winds change direction.

welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Sat May-07-05 01:27 PM
Original message
my meeting with Congressman Jim McGovern
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1768464

this morning, my Congressman, Jim McGovern (D-MA) held "office hours" at a little restaurant in my town ... it was open to the public and gave citizens an opportunity to speak directly to the Congressman, one-on-one ... four people showed up ... lesson one: if we want to make any progress with any cause, we have to find a way to involve more citizens in the democratic process ... a sleeping, disconnected electorate is a breeding ground for exploitation ...

for those who don't know him, Congressman McGovern is one of the truly bright lights in the Congress ...

here is a brief recap, to the best of my recollection, of the half hour discussion i had with him this morning:

wt2: do you think there will be a draft within the next year or so?

McGovern: i really doubt it ... i just don't see any enthusiasm for a draft in the Congress ... it's true we're stretched way too thin militarily in places all around the world ...

wt2: yes, and the military has been consistently failing to meet its recruiting goals ...

McGovern: that's true and things could certainly change ... but right now, i don't think a draft is very likely ...

wt2: i recently read a book called "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" where the author, John Perkins, talked about his role in destabilizing foreign governments by utilizing loans from the IMF that could never be paid back ... when the foreign governments defaulted, it became easy for the US to exploit them and force them to act as a puppet state for the US government ... in Iraq, Chalabi is now in control of the oil; at the IMF they have Wolfowitz; their only missing piece is controlling the elected government itself ... do you think that the US mission in Iraq, or at least the neo-con mission under bush, is dedicated not to democracy but rather to the total corporate exploitation of Iraqi resources?

McGovern: well, if that's the plan, it's gone horribly wrong ... i don't disagree that there are great concerns about having Chalabi in such a key position controlling the oil ... but i just came back from Iraq and i can tell you that Prime Minister Jaafari is not who bush wanted in power ... he has very close ties to Iran ... i will say, however, that i had a chance to speak to two of our top generals (sorry, i forgot their names - wt2) while i was there ... i asked them why we were asked to allocate funds for permanent military bases ... they told me that the bases were not "permanent" bases, they were "enduring" bases ... i asked them what the difference was and they said that "enduring" meant that we would only use them for "as long as we wanted them" and then would turn them over to the Iraqis ... (it was clear from McGovern's tone he saw right through their response) ...

wt2: the last topic i wanted to speak to you about is the politics going on in the Democratic Party itself ... we just saw most Democrats in the House and the Senate vote an additional $82 billion to continue bush's occupation in Iraq ...

McGovern: well that's true ... i voted against that supplemental budget ...

wt2: i know that and i appreciate that vote ... and now we hear Chairman Dean inviting "pro life" candidates to run for office as Democrats and we've seen Casey enter the race in PA and he is not "pro life"; he's "anti-choice" ... i don't know whether you're aware of this or not, but the Democratic Party in Massachusetts, unlike previous years, no longer has any foreign policy plank whatsoever ... do you think the Party is moving, or being moved, to the right?

McGovern: i think that we should not have litmus tests in the Party ... some people may disappoint certain voters on one issue but might be very strong on other issues ... having said that, i do think the Party needs to take much more principled and much bolder stands on the issues ... Senator Kerry's campaign last year is a perfect example of this ... voters really didn't know where he stood and the Democratic Party stood on the war ... the Party needs to clearly tell voters where we stand ... i think, regarding the recent supplemental bill to continue funding the Iraq war, many Democrats felt they had to go along to get along ... but if we continue to vote republican-lite, we're going to continue to lose ...

wt2: thanks very much Congressman McGovern ... i really want to thank you for taking the time to talk with me and for your excellent voting record in the Congress ...

McGovern: well, thank you too for your interest and your involvement ...

paineinthearse (1000+ posts) Mon Jun-06-05 11:29 AM
Original message
Senator G. McGovern & Rep. J. McGovern: Withdraw from Iraq
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1832445

I met Jim McGovern last Friday night. Funny, he did not mention that he had co-written an op-ed with Senator McGovern for publication in today's GLOBE Rep. McGovern was a staffer for Senator McGovern before he ran for the House (Massachusetts 3rd CD). They are not related.

Question: Which currently serving Congress people have publically called for withdrawal? I am aware of Meehan, Kucinich and now McGovern.

Mods - I called his local office and have permission to post in its entirity.

==========================================================

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped... /

GEORGE MCGOVERN AND JIM MCGOVERN
Withdraw from Iraq
By George McGovern and Jim McGovern | June 6, 2005

WE WERE early opponents of the US invasion of Iraq. Nonetheless, once American forces were committed, we hoped that our concerns would be proven wrong. That has not been the case.

The United States must now begin an orderly withdrawal of our forces from this mistaken foreign venture.

The justification for the war was based on false or falsified information. What had been initially characterized by the Bush administration as an uncomplicated military operation has turned into a violent quagmire. Our leaders underestimated not only the insurgency, but also the deep-rooted ethnic divisions in Iraqi society.

There are no clear answers from the administration or the Congress on how long our forces will need to stay in Iraq, what the anticipated costs in human life and treasure will be, or even what would constitute success.

Instead, many of our policymakers seem resigned to an open-ended occupation. Former Defense Undersecretary Paul Wolfowitz has told Congress that we will be there for at least another 10 years. It is common to hear even some who voted against the war say, ''now that we're there, we have no choice but to stay."

We very much disagree. Calls to maintain the status quo echo the same rationale used to keep us in Vietnam. To those who contend that we would weaken our credibility if we withdraw, we believe that the nation's standing would greatly improve if we demonstrate the judgment to terminate an unwise course.

Our continuing presence in Iraq feeds the insurgency and gives the insurgents a certain legitimacy in the eyes of much of the world. We know from our own history that armies of occupation are seldom welcome.

There have been elections in Iraq, and yet it remains unclear whether the different political, ethnic, and religious factions want to work together.

One thing, however, is clear: Washington cannot determine Iraq's destiny. It doesn't matter how many times Condoleezza Rice or Donald Rumsfeld visit. It doesn't matter how many soldiers we deploy. The myriad factions in Iraq themselves must display the political will to demand a system of government that respects the diversity that exists in their country.

There are no easy answers in Iraq. But we are convinced that the United States should now set a dramatically different course -- one that anticipates US military withdrawal sooner rather than later. We should begin the discussions now as to how we can bring our troops home.

The United States should accelerate and pay for the training of Iraqi security forces with the help of Egypt, Jordan, and other Arab allies. We can begin drawing down American forces to coincide with the number of trained Iraqi forces. By that measure, we should bring 30,000 of our troops home now.

President Bush should consult with the current Iraqi government and other Arab nations about the necessity for an Arab-led security force to complement the Iraqis in the short term. Again, the United States should finance this effort.

We should also work with the United Nations to solicit ideas and assistance from the international community on how we can best disengage.

There are no guarantees that militarily withdrawing from Iraq would contribute to stability or would not result in chaos. On the other hand, we do know that under our occupation the violence will continue.We also know that our occupation is one of the chief reasons for hatred of the United States, not only in the Arab world but elsewhere.

Wars are easy to get into, but hard as hell to get out of. After two years in Iraq and the loss of more than 1,600 American soldiers, it is simply not enough to embrace the status quo.

We are not suggesting a ''cut-and-run" strategy. The United States must continue to finance security, training, and reconstruction.

But the combination of stubbornness and saving face is not an adequate rationale for continuing this war. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is time for lawmakers in Washington -- and for concerned citizens across the nation -- to demand that this sad chapter in our history come to an end and not be repeated in some other hapless country.

The path of endless war will bankrupt our treasury, devour our soldiers, and degrade the moral and spiritual values of the nation. It is past time to change course.

George McGovern, the 1972 Democratic nominee for president, represented South Dakota in the US Senate. Jim McGovern (no relation) represents the Massachusetts 3d Congressional District.

Senator McGovern is also the recipient of the the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian award - see his full biography at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern

Prior DU posts of note:

Sen. George McGovern is keynote speaker at Princeton University conference - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ?
az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3226708

my meeting with Congressman Jim McGovern - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-15-05 02:44 PM
Original message
Congressman McGovern will speak on Iraq at Clark - August 8th
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=158&topic_id=5589

*08/08/2005 Congressman McGovern on Iraq at Clark*

6:30 pm for networking. 7 pm for speaker
Johnson Auditorium, Clark University, Worcester
Congressman McGovern will speak on his trip to Iraq. This is an opportunity to discuss what is happening in Iraq with someone who has been there, and in particular, Congressman Jim McGovern.

Clark University, Johnson Auditorium, first floor of the Sackler Science Center

The overall address of the campus is 950 Main Street, Worcester. There will be signs to direct people to the program. The individual buildings on the Clark campus mostly don't have separate addresses. The best way to describe Sackler is that it is the building across Maywood Street from the Maywood Street Parking Lot, about 100 yards north of Maywood Street.

welshTerrier2 (1000+ posts) Thu Aug-11-05 06:17 PM
Original message
McGovern: you can't build movements around candidates and election cycles

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2002366

no other way to describe it: just totally blown away ...

Monday night, DU'er paineinthearse and i attended a meet-up for Congressman Jim McGovern (D-MA), a former staffer for Senator George McGovern (no relation), who was speaking about his recent trip to Iraq ... it was great to finally meet paineinthearse (he isn't, btw!!)

McGovern handed out an article he had co-authored with former Senator George McGovern entitled "Withdraw from Iraq" ... here's a link to the article published in the Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/06/06/withdraw_from_iraq

McGovern is not just a good speaker; he's inspirational ... not only is he passionate about this country and fighting for change, but he's brutally honest ... you know when you're listening to him that he's telling you what he really thinks ... he doesn't just spout the party line or peddle some watered down version of the truth ...

with all deference to Jack Nicholson's "you can't handle the truth", here is a summary of some of McGovern's comments:

McGovern said "you can't build movements around candidates and election cycles" ... he emphasized the need to get involved, stay involved and get everyone we know involved ... we can't just sit around until the next election season rolls around ...

Jim was asked about the "we're stuck there" position that some Democrats have advocated on the war and the occupation ... he said that this "rationale was more about 'saving face' then about any kind of rational, sensible plan" ... McGovern said that he could not see that any progress had been made in Iraq at all ... the situation is a total mess ...

He asked an American General he met with whether there was any evidence the US was making progress in Iraq ... the General pointed out that whenever he flies around the country in a helicopter, he constantly sees the Iraqi people waving to him ... he asked McGovern "didn't you see the same thing??" ... McGovern responded that he assumed "they were waving at us because they were signaling for us not to shoot at them."

On withdrawal, McGovern made the following statement: "We need to end this NOW ... we need to begin an orderly withdrawal NOW; not in 6 months; not in a year ..."

He said Karl Rove seemed smart enough to find a way to save face but still get us out of Iraq NOW:
1. we could just say "we won" and then just leave or
2. we could get the Iraqis to ask us to leave and then thank us for helping them out

"The real problem we have in the movement to end the war is an undeniable lack of protests ... let's face it, people are not out in the streets demanding an end to the war ... and i have to tell you that most Congressmen are receiving very little mail on the subject" ...

"We have to teach citizens to act like citizens" ...

McGovern was asked what we could do if the Democratic Party just will not cooperate with us ... he said that "if they continue to refuse to represent our views, they need to understand that we will run candidates against them in the primaries" ... he was very clear that we cannot just continue to go along with the status quo and we must fight to have our voices heard ... he spoke passionately and articulately about the need for citizens to understand that our democracy is at risk and that we cannot continue taking it for granted ... citizens have got to be more involved ...

Finally, Congressman McGovern (D-MA) was asked about Senator Kerry's call for more troops in Iraq ... McGovern said he and Kerry are friends but that Kerry is just plain wrong on this issue ... He literally shook his head in frustration regarding Kerry's position ... then he said "Kerry could have won last year if he had taken a bolder stand against the war."

McGovern's main message was: If we want to see change, we all have to get involved ... there's no other way ... truer words were never spoken ...

Speaking just for myself, I would love to see McGovern throw his hat in the ring against Kerry the next time he's up for election ... that would give Democrats in Massachusetts a real choice instead of just another rubberstamp ... I doubt he would do it though ... and that's too bad ... of course, it wouldn't hurt to ask him, would it??

link to DU McGovern meetup thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=158x5589
link to DU McGovern/McGovern Op Ed on Withdrawal:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=158&topic_id=4964

paineinthearse (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-10-05 12:10 PM
Original message
LTTE Worcester T&G & Boston Globe - Jim McGovern

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=158&topic_id=5845

This letter was inspired by Rep. McGovern's speech Monday night at Clark University.

=======

Editor,

Citizens of the Massachusetts 3rd Congressional District are priviledged to have Jim McGovern as their Representative in Congress. He is our voice of conscience. Over the past week,

Rep. McGovern...joined Rep. Barbara Lee's "Resolution of Inquiry in Regards to Downing Street Minutes. Bill # H.RES.375". If passed, it will require the White House and the State Department to "transmit all information relating to communication with officials of the United Kingdom between January 1, 2002, and October 16, 2002, relating to the policy of the United States with respect to Iraq." This information is needed to determine the truth about Bush and Blair administration policy decisions leading up to the Congressional resolution granting President Bush authority to use troops in Iraq, to date at a cost of 2036 US, British & allied soldiers killed, 13189 US, British & allied soldiers killed wounded, (source: http://icasualties.org/oif /), plus thousands of Iraqi civilians killed and wounded, all at a cost in excess of $300 billion.

Rep. McGovern...at Clark University, met with >200 members of the Worcester Democrats meet-up group and spoke about his recent trip to Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq, meeting with speaking candidly with Massachusetts soldiers and calling for US withdrawal now.

Rep. McGovern...co-signed Rep. John Conyers' letter to President Bush, calling on the President to meet with Gold Star Mother Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq and is protesting outside Bush's Crawford ranch. In the words of Rep. Conyers, "It is not that hard for an elected official to take his time and energy and try to demand accountability from a President. It is what I was elected to do and it is my job. For a mother who recently lost her son in a war based on lies to turn her grief and anger into action and courage is a heroic act." Sixteen Democratic House members are calling on President Bush to meet Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq and is protesting outside Bush's Crawford ranch.

Dear Mr. President:

We write to respectfully urge you to meet with Cindy Sheehan and other relatives of fallen soldiers who request a meeting to discuss their deep concerns about the war in Iraq. We also request that you help ensure that Ms. Sheehan and her colleagues are not arrested as long as they continue to wait for a meeting with you at their location in the peaceable and legal manner that they have maintained thus far.

Since the loss of her son, Ms. Sheehan and other families have been committed to helping family members of other soldiers who have been lost in Iraq. Ms. Sheehan, in fact, founded Gold Star Families for Peace, a support organization for families of fallen soldiers. For several days now, she has been waiting outside your ranch, hoping to meet with you about the loss of her son and the failure to discover weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Ms. Sheehan has indicated that she is planning to continue her vigil for the entirety of your vacation at your Crawford complex if necessary.

Given the recent tragic loss of American lives in Iraq, and the many deaths and injuries American troops have sustained since the beginning of the war, we hope that you can appreciate why the family members believe it so important that they exercise their rights as citizens to petition their government. We believe it would send an unfortunate message to other relatives and soldiers if grieving parents were arrested while exercising their constitutional rights.

Thank you very much for you assistance with this matter. We hope that you will be able to make time to meet with Ms. Sheehan and her colleagues and also ensure they are treated fairly while awaiting this important appointment.

Sincerely,

Reps. John Conyers; George Miller; Maxine Waters; Corrine Brown; Dennis Kucinich; Carolyn Maloney; Jim McDermott; Jim McGovern; Barbara Lee; Zoe Lofgren; Peter Oberstar; John Lewis; Bernie Sanders; Bob Filner; Micheal Honda; Raul Grijalva

Thank you, Rep. McGovern.

LynneSin (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-18-05 01:14 PM
Original message
To all Democrats who voted to support the war back in 2002

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2260272

You know we're angry with what you did. We wrote, we called, we faxed and we pleaded to not support this war because we knew back then that there was no justification to send troops to Iraq.

But all work fell on deaf ears for 80 democrats in the House and 29 democrats in the Senate. For many of you, your decision was based on trying to resolve the concept of "What if the information that the Bush Administration is giving us actually for real". We now know today that the information was not truthful. We know that false information was provided in order to invade a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11 nor posed any threats on our country.

Fast forward 3+ years, 2000+ dead American soldiers and thousands of unnamed innocent Iraqi civilians, not to mention tens of thousands of our soldiers who will be permanently scarred for life: To you 109 Democrats that supported this war we now come to a point where you can do something to make it right. Rep. John Murtha was one of those 109 democrats that supported the war; he was one of the most hawkish of the group. And yet on November 17th, 2005, Rep. Murtha recognized that he made a mistake. He not only recognizes that the war is not going well but is actually causing more insurgency & terrorism and now is the time to bring our soldiers home. Saddam is out, elections are held - time for Iraq to stand on its own 2 feet and bring our troops home now.

So to the other 108 democrats who voted for this war and ESPECIALLY for those with upcoming elections in 2006, now is the time to make amends for the decision you made three years ago. Please stand with Rep John Murtha in calling for the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq. Now is the time to do the right thing!