And so it begins at St Joan of Arc.....

Yep, the long awaited slow crackdown on St Joan of Arc Parish in Minneapolis is going on. I expect their GLBT ministries to be slowly reduced and eventually eliminated with the new Archbishop. This was released as the Archbishop is in Rome to get his staff to "guide" the Archdiocese. :puke:

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/20740299.html

Twin Cities Archbishop John Nienstedt has directed a parish in Minneapolis that it cannot host its annual gay pride prayer service at the church or on any other church property.

According to the archdiocese spokesman, gay rights advocates and an official at St. Joan of Arc Church in south Minneapolis, the prayer service set for Wednesday will now be characterized as a "peace service."
....
" didn't overreact," McGrath said today. "He said, 'Tell them they can't hold that on church property.' "
.....
McGrath said the archbishop is compelled to take this position because "church property is sanctified, and to celebrate GLBT ... is contrary to the teachings of our church -- plain and simple."

They're not claiming that this is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

Like all "Christian" religions, the important thing is the preservation of the power of the Institution, not the actual teachings of Christ.

sw

held at my church on the 29th.

http://www.ourcathedral.org/saintmarkscathedral/home1

Read to the middle of the page.

I wonder if St. Joan of Arc will also be told that they have to undo all their environmental initiatives as well. :eyes:

St Joan will be pushed in the "Orthodox Catholic" model in coming years, bit by bit or one drastic change if a new, young conservative priest comes in and dramatically changes things (which could happen). Since the Archbishop is relatively new, he is moving slowly at the start. St Agnes is the "model" parish for the current Archbishop.

Who'd go into the priesthood now if they had major disagreemenst with the hierarchy?

Every now and then I listen to "Relevant Radio" and am always shocked by how many rabidly, conservative Catholics there are. You should have heard them the day California started marrying Gays - the level of hate was most unChrist like and the DJ (Drew something) did his best to egg the callers on - all the while wrapping himself in doctrine. .(But what can you expect from people who can become apoplectic at the mention of "The DaVinci Code"?) If the Archbishop were truly concerned about the Churh's teachings he'd shut this outfit down - I don't recall being taught to blindly hate anyone in Catechism - even in the pre-Vatican II days.

Free thinkers get filtered out.

I have listened to (ir)Relevant Radio at times and it is a disgusting presentation on the airwaves. The DJ, Dr. Drew Mariani, is one of many pieces of work. I am not surprised at his rant about what is happening in California. (ir)RR is based in Green Bay, and while they have toned down a bit are still pretty bad.

This outfit has been on since before the 2004 election and it was all pro-Bush all the time. They have cut back a bit on that for tax reasons but what you mention is one of their many ways of going under the radar.

I have heard from many people who grew up in the pre-Vatican II days and they say, while different, it was a much more compassionate outfit than what we have today. The generation in power wanted just that, power and are making sure everyone knows it in some weird Utopian view of the past which never existed.

If you want to see some really out there Catholics that put (ir)RR to shame, check out Catholic Answers, they have a online board that is well over the top. Also anything related to Ave Maria Radio is another piece of work (I forgot EWTN which follows the same model). What you hear is Protestant Fundie radio just slightly tweaked to a ultra-Conservative Catholic bent, but most of the topics/talking points overlap word for word.

If anything I see the Church becoming more and more like (ir)Relevant Radio, just look at what the Archbishop did when he was called in to "clean up" the New Ulm Diocese, that is now a shadow of its former self. :(

A friend recommended it thinking it might draw me back to the Church (just the opposite). I used to amuse myself by posting questions designed to make heads explode - I'll give them this much - unlike Free Republic they don't toss you off the board for disagreeing with them.

My pre-Vatican II experience was during grade school in the late 50s and very early 60s - maybe it was a kinder, gentler church because of John XXIII and the winds of change were blowing.

My aunt lives in the New Ulm Diocese and was quite happy to see Neinstadt go. She said he did his best to set relationships with other denominations back 100 years. I work with someone who has friends in the diocese that left when he wouldn't allow their child to have a gluten free host because Jesus used wheat at the last supper. Apparently the only answers Neinstadt could come up with in this "WWJD" moment was "He'd give the kid a choice of never receiving the sacrament or getting sick."

And, if free thinkers are getting filtered out of the priesthood what will become of the Jesuits?

While I am still there and I have been suspended once already, it is not fun to go to. It is so conservative there is is insane plus the amount of 20%ers who will support W. It is sure not hard to make heads explode over there. A surprising number would prefer a worldwide Catholic Theocracy if it would ever happen.

Neinstadt is a company man, check the main page of the Archdiocese, and while the GLBT prayer service is canceled, he is out in Rome this week getting his new staff, so he wants a special petition to pray for him when he receives it. Talk about priorities :puke:

Edit:

As for the Jesuits, they will probably still do their own thing on the margins of power waiting for their time in a generation or so.

bishop clamped down on them, they left the Catholic church with their priest. They had to give up their building, of course, so they rented space from my (Episcopal) parish. They became an independent parish that kept to Catholic forms of worship and spirituality but otherwise did things like performing marriage services for gay couples and having women in leadership roles.

But I know of more than one parish in the New Ulm diocese which was pretty liberal, a new pretty conservative priest came in and within 2 years it was a total 180. Of course membership dropped like a rock, maybe 1/4 to 1/3rd stayed, but that is the "smaller, holier Church" that is always talked about.

I do agree that the St Joan of Arc membership will find a way to stay together in some way even if the worst case happens.

How are they going to pay out their hundreds of millions of dollars for their perverted priest lawsuits if their churches become "smaller and holier?" That the Catholic Church thinks it has ANY grounds for making moral judgements on ANYONE is laughable at best.

The current generation thrives on following rules to the letter. If you do not follow enough to the letter, there are some out there that will dismiss you as "not Catholic" on any technicality/disagreement (you meet more online than in real life, as they are scattered in real life).

Part of this comes from the sex scandals. I had an interaction with a ultra-conservative seminarian online and they are indoctrinated about the Church being a "perfect society", hense has never and will never do anything wrong in some people's eyes. So, the sex scandal is looked at as parishioners speaking up when they should have kept shut for the good of the Church (yes, my head always hurts trying to process that whopper).

It also brings back one reason why some are attracted to the clergy (some, but a growing number now), to have each parish as a little self-contained kingdom with the pastor really using his authority. It is one thing to have it, but you have to use it responsibly. That attracts some that thrive on power trips. They expect all parishioners to be "children" at all ages, but in today's educated society that is not possible and peer adult discussion riles some people.

It is a sad that we are going backwards so fast.

of those in the GLBT community. The parishioners will still stand by the parishioners who are in the GLBT community. have no doubt about that.

The service is about acceptance and tolerance. I hope others come to support the GLBT who also attend St. Joan's because you know there will be the hypocritical Catholics who will show up to see what happens.

Hopefully the congregation of St. Joans will teach the Archbishop and others about love

I hope it goes very well.

I hope the Archbishop can learn from this, but I have my doubts, given what he has written in the Catholic Spirit (Nov 15 issue) but also written and done in past dioceses.

I thought that even the Vatican didn't say that being GLBT was "sinful" it was acting on it that is. Acting on it being defined as actually having a loving relationship that includes sex. (And the Church maintains that all sex outside of marriage is sinful, never mind that it won't allow GLBT people to marry.)

pretty much goes to a pretty hard-core following of JPII's Humanum Vitie (sp). That means, man, woman, procreation and that is it. GLBT sexual issues do not matter no matter what. Many CAF posters use "sham" when talking about GLBT unions (what a joke :puke: ). The Church needs to move beyond the JPII years to reopen this discussion again. Of course, I just saw on there (on a thread yesterday which is now deleted there), that in Virginia in 2006 (from Wash Post) that 60% of Catholics (people in pews, not hierarchy) support Civil Unions and are sympathetic to full marriage rights. There is a major disconnect between the pews and the hierarchy.

like second-class citizens? There are other denominations that embrace GLBT worshippers, so why don't they take their money and their energy elsewhere?

What hypocrisy.

:puke:

http://www.startribune.com/local/22700439.html