Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Forensic analysis of overvotes to determine prepunching for B*?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Places » Ohio Donate to DU
 
s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-04 11:47 AM
Original message
Forensic analysis of overvotes to determine prepunching for B*?
In this link, a Cuyahoga voter says she was given a ballot prepunched for *:

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/1032

If the ballots can be examined by a forensic scientist versed in the signatures of mechanical devices, it might be possible to establish whether these ballots were all punched by the same punch machine. Why?

Let's suppose I wanted to prepare a bunch of prepunched ballots: I'm very likely to send them all through one particular machine, or maybe only a few. As mechanical devices, each machine may well have its own particular signature, just as typewriters had signatures based on how the letters where printed. Now, on election day, there are lots of punch machines, and B* overvotes should show a range of signatures, as should the Kerry overvotes. But if the B* votes on overvotes represent only one or a few machines, and the Kerry votes on the same overvotes show a larger number of machines, we have evidence of fraud, because it would prove that the ballots must have been prepunched.

Of course, there's the minor problem of getting access to the ballots. . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. The problem with that:
In most (if not all) precincts in Cuyahoga County, "punch card" voting is done with a handheld stylus. There's no way it would leave any "signature".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Didn't know that - thanks for the input.
It was a good idea - sigh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. the machine hole may be distinctive
but in practice this would be a nightmare to try to campare over large numbers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, not necessarily....
The only way to efficiently punch large numbers of ballots in a short period of time is with, say, an older IBM punch card punch machine with a stylus closely resembling the normally-used hand-held punch.

Creating overvotes is actually the quickest way to ruin the other candidates votes and have some small measure of plausible denial in the case of a recount--much like Florida--i.e., "look at all these spoiled ballots," but time constraints would require the use of a machine for the effect to be significant enough.

One would only need to take a random sampling of just the overvotes and examine them for signs of machine punching (experts say that such is identifiable). That might encourage another random sample of the remainder. If the results were consistent, that would show voting fraud.

Cheers.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. there is a mcahine that punchs punch cards and you can see it here
http://cardamation.com

Click on the link for card punchs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kc.ink Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-04 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. HAND COUNT the whole damned Nation . . . . . .
either a FULL hand count, (but how do you re-count ballots not there?) or how about a Nation wide RE-Vote for President ONLY?
Sounds right to me. . . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Places » Ohio Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC