Autopsies Confirm Bodies As Slain Siblings

HUDSON, Ohio (AP) - After he shot and killed his two children, Manuel Gehring dug a grave about 2-feet deep in the clay-like soil of northeast Ohio and made two crosses out of sticks, held together by duct tape, which he laid over their bodies. The New Hampshire man later told investigators that he said a prayer for the children's souls.

The gesture was an effort to ease his conscience, said Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeffery Strelzin of New Hampshire.

The bodies of Sarah Gehring, 14, and her brother, 11-year-old Philip Gehring, were identified Saturday - two days after the corpses were found buried off Interstate 80 and 2 1/2 years after the children were slain.

Not much you can say about this one. This so-called "father" took the coward's way out, so he won't be held to answer in this life.


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20051204%2F0529175298.htm&sc=1110&photoid=20051203NHJC104&ewp=ewp_news_1105missing_kids

seems imo to be the least dishonorable thing he could do...I don't know the case, though. Do we know motive?

this bastard did to his kids. He took the chickenshit way out. Instead of staying around and facing what he did, paying for it, he put a pre-emptive end to his problems.

saying he was any any way "honorable." No one is about to defend the bastard, so don't imply otherwise. If there is any conscience within the killer, one might question whether guilt was at play in his suicide. I can imagine he might have felt that his admission and death would give finality to the grieving families, who would not have to live through his trial.... and if a death penalty was imposed--potentially years in court with appeals and delays.

I asked if motive was known, which you did not answer.

<snip>

Gehring, 44, who was involved in a child-custody dispute with his ex-wife, was arrested in California a week after their children, 14-year-old Sarah and 11-year-old Philip, disappeared after a Fourth of July fireworks show in Concord last year.

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http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2004/02/19/autopsy_manuel_gehring_strangled_himself/

Generally one might assume those who have been closely following a case (or have access to local news of the event) might well know more details than is available in a short news article or google search.

Is interactive discussion not the point of starting a thread here? :eyes:

He was insane.

was he paranoid schizo or is it just an assumption that anyone who did so must be insane. Evil? Greedy (life insurance)? Revenge against x-wife? I can think of lots of motives beyond clinical insanity...:shrug:

Killing your two children in cold blood???

Gee, maybe he was having a bad hair day. :sarcasm:

And she had remarried. This isn't that uncommon - it is as if the husband so wants to punish the wife, that he will kill their children to do so. A suicide afterwards is pretty common too.

sanctimonious outrage, rather than a discussion of the facts of the case, it seems. If we never get past this simplistic view of what drives murder within families, and the tendency just to assume "insanity," "cowardice," "evil," we will never be able to prevent such occurrences. :shrug:

I don't see any of the outrage here as "sanctimonious", but as very appropriate. I also don't see how you can prevent something like this, unless there were warning signs he would become violent and the authorities did nothing about it. Who on earth ever thinks that a parent is a danger to his or her own children? He was all the things posters have said, and more, but I see no lesson in this, just a complete tragedy all around, and the person to blame not suffering for what he did.

outrage--suggesting those who want to understand the details of the case are somehow making excuses for it-- is not. I asked for more details from those who knew more facts, so that we could have some discussion, as I didn't know anything from the original article on motive. It was not discussed, if you go and reread what you posted.

I disagree on prevention. As we have seen with women who suffer postpartum depression, some warning signs ARE seen and appropriate intervention can stop some cases. Men who are intensely abusive towards women may be at risk of committing this kind of thing (as we've seen in reported cases where law enforcement ignores legal protective orders in place). So, yes, there is much to be learned about the signs of such behavior, the signals of increasing risk, and what may be done to prevent.

His coworkers described him as a "control freak". His daughter's grade administrator termed him a "cracker head". It seemed the only way to have prevented this tragedy was for the father to have killed himself BEFORE he killed his children.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/13314863.htm

it does reveal a lot.

He was a very controlling person, perhaps even obsessive-compulsive. From what I've read, its a common personality trait for fathers who kill their own children - they are threatened by what they perceive as a loss of control over their own families. I guess in some incredibly warped way they think that killing their children will save them from the tragedy of a screwed up life. Sometimes they feel suicidal themselves and kill their families because they think the families will suffer without them, then chicken out when the time comes to take their own life.

Very narcissistic, hateful and controlling people who kill their own children.

I didn't write the article, I only posted it. If you really want more information, I'm sure you can get because this case was highly publicized when it was going on. They had an Amber Alert out on this man and the children right after he snatched them, and I myself followed the story. Just wanted to update those who might have done the same.

Who gives a shit about his motive anyway? The kids are dead, and knowing why this twisted piece of garbage did it isn't going to bring them back, nor help prevent another one just like it. I don't think that even the mother felt the kids might be in danger with him. Post partum depression is clearly different than this kind of thing because men don't get post partum depression. Had nothing whatsoever to do with these horrible murders. So, go ahead and overanalyze it to your heart's content. Won't help anyone a bit.

(which was among the examples I gave for which there are signs/signals of escalating violence)...and yes, appropriate intervention by the legal system/law enforcement can, in many cases, avoid such tragedies.


So, we can either bemoan such tragedies, mop up the remains and angrily castigate the guilty as the low life they are... or we can try to understand the similarities in these cases that might predict a point at which we (society/law enforcement/courts) can effect a change in policy or step in to prevent such a horror.

Of course (as similarly with those behind 911, the insurgency now taking hold in both Iraq and Afghanistan, or others who use violence as a means to an ends), it may be easier just to label them evil doers and start shooting...




BTW, it is customary that those who post, do so to initiate discussion. So, you'll forgive me for assuming you would want to do likewise...Perhaps you could post in future threads that that is your intention? :shrug:

The list gets pretty short



I hope you are not one of those people who think we can prevent such occurrences by psychological means, by giving him a group hug, telling him it is OK his mommy was mean to him or by any other babble

The man is a psychotic killer, meaning he has no conscience. What other explanation can there be? Some people are born that way. Just be glad he saved us the trouble of housing him for 40 years

by their father who grabbed them from his x-wife and their mother, despite a protective order in place. The mother frantically called police, who essentially did nothing. After their murder, the courts would not even allow a civil case to procede against the negligent police department.

Prevention here would have meant taking abuse seriously, enforcing court-ordered protective orders, jailing those who violate them and have been shown to be violent towards their spouse/children.

But, yes, some prevention is treatment. Postpartum depression can be medically treated and tragic aftermaths prevented. We might well have prevented the tragedy in Texas at the hands of Andrea Yates had such care been provided.

BTW, you too asked about motive. So why is it that you assume when I ask about motive, that I was asking because I am some "bleeding heart" who wants to "hug" everyone to cure them? I'm curious how you would feel if someone had responded similarly to your original post asking about motive.....:shrug: