Dear Portland drivers:

After living here for a year and a half, I feel that it's appropriate to offer some driving advice that addresses certain things I've noticed. While many of you are fine drivers who know how to operate a motor vehicle, I've noticed that a fair number seem to need to learn a few things.

-The lines on the road actually mean something. I think it's time that some of you learn what that is exactly.
-The signs that say "Speed" followed by a number also mean something. In general, it's a good idea to be driving at a speed that's close to that number--not 20 less.
-There aren't invisible cars stopped ahead if you at the intersection. It's ok to have less than a full car length between you and either the stop line (see point 1) or the car in front of you.
-A green light means go. It doesn't mean wait 5 seconds then slowly roll forward until you're across the intersection.
-The green signs on the freeways also mean something. If you're intending on exiting I-205 Southbound at, say Powell Blvd, it may be a good idea to get into one of the two exit lanes more than 20 yards before the exit.
-Speaking of freeways (and this applies to drivers elsewhere in the state as well), the purpose of the 'on-ramp' is to accelerate to speed before you merge. Similarly, the 'off-ramp' is there for you to slow down after you leave the freeway.
-The MAX has been around for a long time; you should be used to seeing it by now. Please stop watching it while you're driving.
-Learn what "right-of-way" means and understand who should yield and when. (Hint: if you have it, you have a responsibility to not yield it to someone who doesn't have it.)
-It's ok to go around a cyclist if there's room to do so safely. (Note to cyclists: please stop switching between sidewalk and street every other block--it's a safety hazard.)
-If you decide to swerve into the left lane to go around a bus or slow car, don't get pissy if you have to hit the breaks to avoid a head-on collision. You're at fault.
-If a sign says 'no left turn,' please don't hold up traffic waiting to turn left until the police come by and explain what you're doing wrong.
-If there are two or more lanes in one direction (especially on freeways), remember that the left lane is for passing, not for going 15 or more MPH under the posted speed limit (see point 2) before cutting across one or more lanes to take the next exit (see point 5) or turn right at the next intersection.
-If you're going to turn right, try to get into the right-most or turning lane before you get to the intersection. Similarly, if you intend on turning left, get into the left-most or turning lane before you get to the intersection.

Thank you for your time. And just remember, "The Californians" aren't to blame for you being a bad driver.

Sincerely,
laconicsax

When someone in front of you is going 20 mph below the speed limit, there is another option besides hit your horn, tailgate, or fly around...

Slow Down. Relax. Enjoy the scenery.

That's why you left California. Remember??

It's the law.

But that's not the nature of the driving directions in the post.

You can't be "slower" traffic if you're the only car out there.

I'm not from California. I grew up in Washington, moved to Ashland after I finished my bachelors, and moved to Portland a year and a half ago. A significant constant between the Seattle area, the Rogue Valley, and the Portland area is that, more often than not, people who can't be bothered to learn the rules of the road accuse "Californians" of being the bad drivers.

Driving 20 MPH under the speed limit on the freeway is against the law:
Someone driving 20 MPH under the speed limit on the freeway is also require to yield to faster traffic. ORS 811.425 reads

If they're in the left lane, they're also breaking the whole 'left lane is only for passing' law. ORS 811.295 reads: The left lane is for passing.
ORS 811.315 states:
If you're driving slow to enjoy the scenery, then you're not paying attention to the road. If you want to enjoy the scenery, do the responsible thing and pull over.

Good fucking god take the stick out.

It only really bothers me because it has at tendency towards recklessness. If you can't be bothered to pay attention to the road, you have no business driving. There are other cars on the road besides you, and the laws governing driving are for everyone's safety.

If driving well under the posted speed limit weren't an issue, do you really think there'd be penalties for doing so? Don't you think that if it were just fine that it wouldn't be treated the same as speeding?

That's where we have to deal with senior citizens, lost tourists in motorhomes, stoned teen-agers and speed demons from Eugene and Portland.

We either slow down and let the screwballs have their way... or die.

Now if you want to die with the annotated code in your hands, that's your choice I suppose. For me, I've learned imperfection is a fact of life.

Roll with it.

:eyes:

It's expected in California to pull in to the intersection to wait to do a left turn, and therefore one can expect when one has done so for others to yield when the light changes as you follow through with your left turn before they enter the intersection on the subsequent light. In Oregon though, you should not pull out in to the intersection to do a left turn lane, and therefore you shouldn't expect to be able to do a left turn lane at the end of a light to clear the intersection. You should be behind the line waiting to do a left turn and wait for the next light where opposing traffic allows for a left turn instead.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But the driver's manual doesn't indicate that this "wait in intersection" is available in Oregon, nor do people do it here. It's an easy trap for California drivers to fall in to, as this is a habit one engages in without thinking, even if they are trying to drive responsibly.

It isn't required by law, nor is it prohibited. I've seen cops do it and I've seen people do it in front of cops without penalty, so I think it's ok.

My son flunked his driver's test on that one, immediately. Turn around and go back to the DMV.

It is, however, often the only way for traffic to move in congested areas or rush hours, so it is done and overlooked.

Maybe your son was just enjoying the scenery and the proctor flunked him for not paying attention.

If you ever bothered to read the law ORS 811.260(I know, "take the stick out"), you'd see that if you have a green light, you may enter the intersection provided that you yield to oncoming traffic. If the light turns yellow and you're already in the intersection, you're supposed to "cautiously cross the intersection" because if you stay in the intersection, you're blocking the intersection which as I'm sure you're aware is the subject of one of those pesky laws. What you're not supposed to do is what I saw a few times once when I was on the East coast, which is hit the gas as soon as the light turns green and try to beat the traffic across.

I wonder how you feel about the various other posters here who post and discuss legislation. Do they need to "take the stick out" too?

And as I'm sure you know, you are not supposed to pull out in the middle of an intersection and stop. That would be blocking the intersection as well, an act your own post states is illegal.

And much like pulling into the intersection to catch a yellow light, other driving habits become routine due to the local environment. Like waiting for traffic in an intersection to clear because in icy weather, vehicles can just slide right through.

Or slowing down because you know the person in front of you is seeing the Pacific for the first time and it would just be hateful to make them speed up.

And if you find it lacidaisical here, don't ever go to the midwest, especially North Dakota. You'll be in a straightjacket in 5 minutes. Not because they don't follow the law, but because they do. To The 55 MPH Letter.

The law concerning blocking the intersection is about blocking cross traffic. You'd have to be a moron to not understand that, and since your posts are clear and free of egregious spelling or grammar mistakes, I doubt you're a moron.

You may have missed the place on this thread where I explained that I'm not talking about adverse road/weather conditions.

Let me clue you in on something, if someone in Portland is slowing down because they're seeing the Pacific for the first time, they're definitely not paying attention to the road, especially since the Pacific is around 60 miles and a mountain range away.

I've also nowhere said that I have a problem with people obeying the law, in fact if I saw a poster quoting statutes, I'd assume that they, like me actually WANT people to obey the law. I suspect that you assumed from the beginning that I'm an impatient driver whose always speeding, honking, and weaving through traffic as evidenced by your first comment. I'm not at all that driver. My complaints stem from people not following the rules of the road. Why on Earth would you think that I'd hate it to be somewhere where the law is actually enforced?

I think you might want to take another look at your driving habits and who might actually be cognitively impaired.

cya.

Feel free to put me on ignore. It won't hurt my feelings one bit.

PS: I like how you try to imagine my driving habits from me pointing out where statements you made are either nonsensical or flat out wrong.

If I try to work out your driving habits based on your behavior in this thread, I'd have to suspect that you plod along, casually drifting between lanes, shaking your fist at those darned kids who driving the speed limit in one lane. Did you learn to drive in Ballard by chance?

I think it's a courtesy to the driver behind you, because you give them a chance to get through the intersection on that light as well. I never thought that it might now be allowed, and I've never been pulled over for it.

Edited to say: I never even thought about this not being legal. I guess I assumed that's how people did it everywhere.

It was actually something I looked up right after I moved to Oregon. It's legal in Washington and I wanted to make sure it was legal here too.

Then ran a red light. The drivers description is pretty specific. Nice try though, 'A' for effort. The first response even contradicts you and confirms what I've said about left turns by citing the law(I guess they'd better take the stick out too, right?)

Maybe we should make that a 'C+' for effort...

Everything in here says you stop before entering the intersection unless you can proceed straight through.


a driver is in violation of ORS 811.265 if the driver makes a response to traffic control devices that is not permitted under the following:

(1) Green signal. A driver facing a green light may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at that place prohibits either turn. A driver shall yield the right of way to other vehicles within the intersection at the time the green light is shown.

(2) Green arrow. A driver facing a green arrow signal light, shown alone or in combination with another signal, may cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow or such other movement as is permitted by other signals shown at the same time.

(3) Steady circular yellow signal. A driver facing a steady circular yellow signal light is thereby warned that the related right of way is being terminated and that a red or flashing red light will be shown immediately. A driver facing the light shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, shall stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, then before entering the intersection. If a driver cannot stop in safety, the driver may drive cautiously through the intersection.

(4) Steady yellow arrow signal. A driver facing a steady yellow arrow signal, alone or in combination with other signal indications, is thereby warned that the related right of way is being terminated. Unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, a driver facing a steady yellow arrow signal shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, shall stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, then before entering the intersection. If a driver cannot stop in safety, the driver may drive cautiously through the intersection.

Even more specifically:

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.340

A person commits the offense of making an improperly executed left turn if the person operates a vehicle and is intending to turn the vehicle to the left and the person does not:

(a) Approach the turn in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the turning vehicle;

(b) Make the left turn to the left of the center of the intersection whenever practicable; and

(c) Except as otherwise allowed by ORS 811.346 (Misuse of special left turn lane), leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as such vehicle on the roadway being entered.

1) By citing the ORS to make your point, you are showing yourself to be a hypocrite of the highest degree.
2) Those laws clearly state what I'm saying--that when you have a green light, you may enter the intersection and after yielding to oncoming traffic, complete the left turn.

I'm not sure if you understand what the words "not" and "and" mean, but if you read 811.346, you'll find that a properly executed left turn has three components:
1)The turn is approached in the left-most lane available.
2)The turn is made to the left of center of the intersection whenever possible
3)The driver begins and ends the turn on the proper side of the road (moving in the proper direction).

According to these laws, if you are at an intersection and intend to turn left, you may enter the intersection on a green light (811.265) in the leftmost lane available (811.346), and after yielding to opposing traffic (811.130 and 811.265), complete the turn (811.130) and continue driving in the same direction as traffic on the street entered (811.346).

Try reading and understanding what you copy and paste next time. No part of what you posted says that you can't enter the intersection under a green light "unless you can proceed straight through." It says you can't enter the intersection if the light has already turned yellow unless you can't safely stop in time (in which case you can "may drive cautiously through the intersection").

before I took the test when I got my license here. So I've been cautious about it, especially because I always wind up getting to a light like this because of turns I do in the morning and am concerned if a cop one of those days is in the intersection that I'd get nailed for being in the intersection.

Another reason I'm paranoid is that there are a number of intersections in Beaverton where they have cameras watching the intersection. I could just see getting nailed on doing a left turn like that.

I've already been nailed for two radar speeding tickets since they have very frequent speed traps on the road to my house every day. Wasn't something I was used to in California, and learned very quickly not only to keep myself within 5 miles of the speeding limit there, but also to shift down when I'm going downhill on that stretch, since unless you ride your brakes, its almost impossible to stay under the speed limit.

On my second ticket where I pleaded no-contest, I recommended they put street signs recommending that drivers shift down in that area to stay within speed limits to prevent people riding their brakes and perhaps damaging them to the point that they might cause worse problems, or pay more attention to their speed than traffic conditions around them. I got them to chop my fine down I think for saying those things! :)

It's pretty easy to get complacent in California about not worrying about speeding tickets in certain areas when cops are required to pull you over if your speeding with radar, and not just take videos and nail 2-3 drivers all speeding at the same time as they go down a hill like they do here.

If that's illegal, it's news to me. I've been licensed to drive in Oregon, Washington, and Pennsylvania and never been called on it in a driving test.

A few thoughts:

- Driving less than the speed limit may depend on road conditions, visibility or the driver trying to locate the destination. Maybe they're having a bad day. Give 'em a break.

- Why would anyone care if there is more than a car length between any car in any line? Will you get there any faster if they don't leave extra space? Some drivers have learned that being right on the stop line at certain intersections mean that opposing cars turning often cut the turn so close that they nearly crash into you.

- When a light turns green it is considered "defensive" driving to make sure the intersection is safe to enter before rolling forward. Opposing traffic running red lights is a major cause of deadly accidents. A good driver would not bolt out of the gate at the first second the light turns green.

- I noticed you didn't complain about all the drivers who go 20 miles OVER the speed limit and endanger everyone on the road or rude drivers who use their horns to express dissatisfaction rather than danger.

-If a driver is driving slowly because of road/weather conditions or trying to locate an address, I give them the benefit of the doubt--it's usually pretty easy to tell when that's the case. My gripe is about the drivers who drive 35 MPH in the center and left lanes of the freeway or 15-20 MPH in a 35 MPH zone for no apparent reason. Also, why should I give them a break because of their delicate psyches? Maybe they should take into consideration that they're not the only car on the road.

-When in crowded city traffic, the space between stopped cars adds up and contributes to gridlock. If you have a block that can fit 20 cars and 10 of them are leaving a full car length in front of them, traffic gets backed up. There's also a safety issue in certain parts of the city. I got caught on the MAX lines downtown because the driver ahead of me stopped more than a full car length short of the car ahead of them. There was more than enough space for our two cars to safely cross the intersection, but because they felt it necessary to suddenly stop in the crosswalk (no pedestrians were crossing or waiting to cross) rather than well beyond it, I was stuck with most of small car on the tracks. A train was coming and only after I laid on the horn for a good five seconds did the driver realize that they could pull forward about 30 or so feet.

-There's a big difference between the good habit of waiting to make sure the intersection is clear and not paying attention at all, lurching forward, then crossing the intersection at a snail's pace. The former is good defensive driving, the latter is negligent and irritating. Again, it contributes to increased traffic and gridlock--if a line of traffic approaching an intersection has to come to a complete stop because the lead car is sitting at a green light isn't paying attention, the line of stopped cars grows dramatically and traffic ceases to flow.

-I didn't complain about reckless speeders because they're not unique to Portland. I also didn't complain about people who can't parallel park, don't yield to pedestrians or cyclists, or people who don't dim their high beams for oncoming traffic. Those are problems everywhere and beyond the scope of a criticism of issues I've rarely encountered outside of the Portland metro area.

Are you really trying to defend people who drive recklessly by saying that it may be "defensive driving?" If anything the way the drivers I addressed here demonstrate the antithesis of defensive driving because they are apparently clueless about their surroundings and the rules of the road.

As a matter of politeness, and assuming normal driving conditions, slower moving vehicles should stay in the right lane.
A very good practical test for this: if you are pacing or falling behind vehicles on your right, move over ( to the right ).
Further strong indicators of a "slow moving vehicle":

1. If your vehicle has more than 4 tires, it is a slow moving vehicle.
2. If your vehicle is hauling a trailer, it is a slow moving vehicle.
3. If your vehicle says "Mack" or "Peterbilt" somewhere on it, it's a slow moving vehicle.
4. If you can sleep comfortably in your vehicle, cook a meal in your vehicle, or take a shower in your vehicle, it is a slow moving vehicle.
...

I don't care how fast (or slow) you go in the rightmost lane, that's what it's for.
If you want to drive in any other lane, please don't be a rolling roadblock.

My $.02.

J.

Though there's a point where driving slowly in the right lane can create a hazard to other drivers which is why if I find myself going significantly slower than the flow of traffic (usually going up a hill/mountain pass), I turn on my hazard lights as a courtesy.

One thing I don't understand is when I'm being tailgated for miles in the right lane and there's at least one open lane to the left. Why not simply change lanes and pass?

the guy going slow in the passing lane nearly always has Washington plates?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgIvH0tu6Y

Of course if you ask any of them, it's "the Californians."

A New York driver and a Portland driver arrive at a four-way stop at exactly the same time.

New York driver: "Whatsamattayou?"

Portland driver: "Nothing. Actually, I think you have the right of way. Thanks for asking. And thanks for waving, even if it was with just one finger."


http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2009/06/survey_portland_drivers_nation.html


That's right, Portland is home to the nation's most courteous drivers (2009), according to a road-rage study released today by a Connecticut-based automobile club.

Portland motorists are least likely to: honk their horns or curse at other drivers; observe other drivers running through red lights; and observe others cutting over with little or no warning.


BTW: Reckless driving is defined as: A more serious offense than careless driving, improper driving, or driving without due care and attention and is often punishable by fines, imprisonment, and/or driver's license suspension or revocation.

On the other hand -

ROAD RAGE is defined as: Aggressive or angry behavior by a driver of an automobile or other motor vehicle. Such behavior might include rude gestures, verbal insults, deliberately driving in an unsafe or threatening manner, or making threats. Road rage can lead to altercations, assaults, and collisions which result in injuries and even deaths. It can be thought of as an extreme case of aggressive driving.

None of them have to do with the complaints I have, most of which involve careless, improper, and inattentive driving.

Thanks for the link.

"-Learn what "right-of-way" means and understand who should yield and when. (Hint: if you have it, you have a responsibility to not yield it to someone who doesn't have it.) "

Uh, no. That's selfish and mean. It's polite to let people enter into, cross-through, (etc.) traffic, indeed, that's one of the things that makes driving in Portland less frustrating.

In addition, the speed limit is exactly that, a *LIMIT*. Not a vague suggestion. If you're driving over it, you're breaking the law.

Oh, and a law you may not know about: if you're driving down the freeway, and a cop has pulled someone over on the right, if you do not slow way down (say, to 35), *and* get in the left lane, you can be ticketed.

Suppose you have two or more lanes in each direction with a center turn lane. A car is stopped in the turn lane, waiting for an opportunity to cross traffic. The left lane stops, the car moves, and a driver in the right lane, not being able to see the car crossing traffic until it's too late, slams into them. It's the same thing with a stopped right lane and a car exiting a driveway to turn left. This is worse when there's heavy traffic, and stopped lane doesn't strike anyone as out of the ordinary. I've witnessed at least a half-dozen other similar crashes, and guess what--the driver that's hit is legally at-fault because they didn't have right-of-way.

For a visual, consider this road: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Issaquah,+WA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.724817,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Issaquah,+King,+Washington&t=k&ll=47.551897,-122.0514&spn=0.001807,0.004823&z=18

It's in Washington, but is a perfect example of this, being the site of a particularly gruesome accident I witnessed when I still lived in the area. There are three westbound lanes (two regular and one HOV) and two eastbound lanes. There are public soccer fields to the north, and during youth soccer season, they're very busy. During rush hour, both regular westbound lanes are bumper-to-bumper and the HOV lane is typically flowing freely. A minivan with a couple parents and 4 soccer kids was waiting for an opening to turn left into the soccer fields. The two regular westbound lanes gave them an opening, so the van started to turn. The stopped traffic obscured the view of the turning van from drivers in the HOV lane and when a sedan, going about the speed limit (35) in the HOV lane couldn't see the van turning until it was too late, you can guess what the result was.

Since moving to Portland, I've seen a few accidents like this and almost been involved in others. In all cases, the car being hit was obscured by the stopped traffic, leading to a collision. It may be 'polite' to let a driver in to traffic, but it can also put them and other drivers at risk. Right of way is there to permit the safe flow of traffic, kind of like how you're not supposed to walk in the bike-lane or drive on a pedestrian mall.

As far as the speed limit, people seem to assume that when I suggest that drivers drive at or near that speed and complain about vehicles going 20 MPH under the limit in the left lane, I must be a serial speeder. On the contrary. I make it a point to not go over the speed limit and laconicspouse can attest to my tendency to yell, "go around" at tailgating cars.

I am aware of the requirement to slow and make room for stopped emergency vehicles. In fact, I did it just yesterday on I-205 Southbound just North of Johnson Creek. Two OSP troopers had stopped a sedan, so I slowed way down, and as soon as the center lane was clear, I moved over.

All the hypotheticals in the world won't stop bad drivers. If you're a moran who doesn't see stopped cars, well, your life will be hurt, you may kill children, and that's how it works.

Good luck explaining your legal defense of "right of way" to the parent of a dead child.

I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

Being 'polite' to a car waiting to cross traffic puts them at risk of being hit. It also puts a driver in a freely flowing lane at risk of hitting the crossing car. This isn't hypothetical--it happens. A line of stopped cars obscures the view of crossing traffic--this is a fact. It is unsafe for a driver to attempt to cross traffic when only the close lane is stopped and if you are in that close lane and stop to let the car cross traffic, you're encouraging them to make an unsafe turn. It's only safe to make that turn when all lanes are stopped. If all lanes are stopped (or you're in the only lane) then it's fine. I just prefer to avoid situations that put myself or others at risk.

Being 'polite' also extends to the cars behind you. There's an expectation that you aren't going to stop short to let someone make a left turn in front of you. Doing so is rude and inconsiderate to any traffic behind you. Bet you forgot about them.