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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:06 AM
Original message
Do you think we got Diebolded?
Seriously. I'm in a quandry this morning. I have two choices...either believe 75% of Texans are bigots. Or believe that they Diebolded an election they were probably gonna win anyway just to see if they could jack the numbers up to 75% without arousing the suspicions of the populace.
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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. I had a problem in South Austin...
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 10:14 AM by silverlib
with the moving of polling places. I was told that Travis County implemented ADA requirements three months early, but not in time to let voters know, prior to election day, that their polling places were moved. They had fliers outside the designated polling places to let voters know where they should go to vote.

I called the officials- had to leave a message - never got a call back.

I'm a strong supporter of ADA and, had ADA requirements been enacted at the proper time, (long time ago) I'd wouldn't have been voting in a neighbor's garage. But, to change the place of polling with no notice really pissed me off.

Didn't mean to hijack - so back to your question - I think anything is possible with Diebold, but, as I said in another thread - I think that I need to get out of our comfortable zone in Austin and start working in the other areas of Texas -

Perhaps Diebold didn't need to still this one - perhaps ignorance and the religious right did a great job.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm not saying that odious amendment wouldn't have passed anyway...
I just think the real numbers in favor of it might have been somewhat lower...but they wanted to see what they could get away with.
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efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. No, remember as the rw church goers were told a vote for prop 2 was
a vote for God. How in the world can one be expected to vote against God. BTW, are those churches going to get tapped by the IRS?
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. there was also a fundie church(s) telling people to vote NO...
because Prop 2 was worded so badly that hetero marriage was in danger. Even they saw the nuttiness of the ammendment as it is currently written. I really kind of thought that would make the vote a little more even than it turned out. *sigh*
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Our polling place in Elgin was steady-to-crowded all day long.
I spotted one hispanic woman while I was there, no other racial minorities except for two poll workers. All whites, all working class.

If you know Elgin, that in no way is representative of the population.

I think the fundie churches turned out their vote, but more important, I don't think much of anybody else voted.

I was surprised at the turnout, because when it's just amendments on the ballot, I'm used to being all alone at my polling place.

So no, I don't think 75% of Texans are that bigoted, I just think the bigoted got out their vote, and the people who weren't preached at just didn't go vote.

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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. that's right
its kinda scary how they would all flock to the polls to do this.... frankly its fear and hatred that motivated the polls yesterday and that scares me alot.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. Nope. We live in a bigoted and ignorant state.
It's time to face facts. I'm actually shocked the for in favor wasn't higher.

I think it's also time to revoke the tax-exempt status of every church that sent mailers in favor of Prop. 2 as well.
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AuntieM1957 Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. No, I think the right did a better job of getting out the vote.
In my home precinct, 3600 voters. Only 850 voted.

That leaves 2750 people who did not. Wonder what difference they might have made?

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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. We Live In A Bigoted State
I fear that it wasn't Diebold, the "yes" voters really were that numerous. I hate to say it, but those of us who choose to live in Texas have chosen to live in a bigoted state. The pious don't like Gays and they were easily swayed into voting for Amendment Two.

Those of us who support the Light can advocate, campaign and cajole. We'll do some good. But I fear that for many of our fellow texans, the getting of wisdom will be difficult and painful.

What scares me is that this bunch might be roused again to vote for Governor Blowdry and some truly loathsome reactionaries next autumn.

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TexasThoughtCriminal Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't think they needed to
But like you, I'm shocked to think that 75% of the people around me are bigoted idiots.

One big unknown I don't have a good feel for is the vote of our usual African-American allies.

I did some leafletting at an early voting polling site on a Sunday. There was a young, nicely dressed black woman there to hand out flyers. We exchanged pleasantries but did not find out which issue or which side we were advocating for because neither one of us could get close enough to voters. But I got the distinct feeling she was there after church for Yes on 2.

So it may be that the church-going black vote, allied with our right-wing enemies, made for the huge margin.x(
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AuntieM1957 Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Black friends of mine told me that YES was the topic of
sermons in their churches last Sunday.

I tried to change their minds. Reminding them that 50 years ago - the hate was directed THEIR way.

No go - absolutely terrified of homosexuality.

but I still think that tolerance is a far harder sell than hate.
The haters were motivated to vote.

Those in the middle either didn't think their vote would make a difference or were afraid to go against the hatemongers.

I saw many people dragging their elderly and young to the polls - to keep the queers from taking over Texas. As if!

Still, I believe there are enough good open hearted people in Texas to make a difference. If only we could wake them up to their silent, untapped potential.

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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I think that is the saddest part of all for me
To think about the African Americans I know who were supporting this just makes me want to cry. I also tried to remind them that this was once them, since interracial marriages used to be illegal too. But so many of the AAs blindly followed their churches just like the others. So sad.
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PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. Nah
I wagered it would be under 70%, as that was the number Warren Chisum, the author of the amendment, said he would be "disappointed" about if the vote total came in under. (I would've declared 'victory' had it come in at something under 2-to-1; say, 65%.)

But nooooooooo.

As it turns out, more than three out of four voting Texans are virulent homophobes.

More than three out of four Texans who voted yesterday (and in early voting) are closeted bigots, who know that if they don't have to demonstrate their bigotry publicly will do so loudly in private.

Most of them go to church every Sunday (and Sunday night, and Wednesday night). Some of them are our parents (we all almost certainly have a relative who meets this description). And that 76% most certainly includes a large number of reliably Democratic voters; perhaps 20-25% of those who cast ballots in this election.

Let that wash over you for a moment.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes, Jefferson County voters for example
Granted, this county is not exactly liberal, but we are reliably Dem and even voted 52% for Kerry last fall. And yet Prop 2 passed overwhelmingly here.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. The Jefferson County numbers don't surprise me at all.
Black voters, who made up a majority of Kerry votes in that county, are less in favor of gay marriage than white voters are. As the most noticable statistic was poor county turnout (9%, half the state average), it seems to me that the only people who showed up were members of First Church of American Jesus Crucified On The Pineywood Trees (I'm sure it's somewhere on the US69 access road).

In sum, prop 2 did as well in Jefferson as it did in other East Texas counties.
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PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I found it quite surprising that
African-American churchgoers are just as conservative socially as their Caucasian counterparts.

Now this was told to me by the man who is David Van Os' campaign manager, who is also a longtime civil rights activist (going back to his involvement with MLK) and who is also a minister. You may know him from his involvement at Camp Casey. He has said that most Af-Am congregations are very conservative about gays, abortion, stem cell research, etc.

It is, as with us all, a matter of education.
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AuntieM1957 Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. The right plays a better precinct level game then we do
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 02:22 PM by AuntieM1957
How many of you really have any activity to speak of at the precinct level?

There is none near me. I'm the precinct chair largely by default.

The Republican chair and election judge were amazed that the Dems were able to put forward anyone to serve as alternate judge in this election.

They took over the state by working locally, and I think therein lies our key to future success.

I've had dozens of people come up to me and tell me that they agree with a lot of Democratic issues, but are AFRAID to speak out. They think they are alone. We must let them know that their voice matters.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. i'm just disgusted
i'm seriously considering moving out of this hell-hole state, maybe even out of the country.

dg
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't have total confidence in e-voting either
Sadly, however the voters of Texas are very uninformed. The religious marketing of "God's law" worked for them folks. Fear of God is something religious people really believe. It's going to take a lot to change that tide of fear. I'm not sure we can just call all of these people bigots. No doubt the Warren "Schism" Chisum type of folks are bigoted. But a lot of our normal group of voters African Americans and Latinos also voted for this proposition. They are religious and they really feel that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. This message has been hammered into them by the Church. Unless this base of voters starts to see and understand that gays are normal people, they will never vote for us on this one.

Sonia
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PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
20. Here's why Prop 2 went down in flames:
There's about a dozen nuggets of wisdom in this article so go read it all...

Blacks and Hispanics who traditionally vote Democratic strongly backed the state's gay marriage ban at the ballot box this week, sometimes outpolling Republicans, analysts said Wednesday.

That broad interest across political lines contributed to the highest participation in a constitutional amendment election since 1991, with roughly 18 percent of registered voters turning out for Tuesday's election.

Republican Gov. Rick Perry rallied his evangelical, socially conservative base on the issue, but political analysts said Proposition 2's success doesn't necessarily predict future success for individual politicians.

"I don't see how it can be useful for a party or a candidate because this so transcends all the political parties and the typical categorizations," said Kelly Shackelford, president of the conservative Free Market Foundation, which backed the amendment. "We didn't even call Republican homes. *cough*bullshit*cough* We called Hispanics, African-Americans and rural Texas voters. That's where the numbers were," he said.

Others agreed, noting that religion and family values resonate in traditionally Democratic precincts with large minority populations.


Last paragraph:

"What Perry did with the evangelicals was an organizational effort," Stein said. "Liberals tend to view those people as rabid dogs. They're not. They're sophisticated. They're organized. Church is just another organization."


This was a dry run in terms of GOTV for the primary in March and the general in November.

We're getting outworked again, folks.
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CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. I go with the opinion that we live in a bigoted, ignorant state
My husband told me when he was canvassing last year, the one thing that people were scared of--above the war in Iraq, Social Security, health insurance, the economy--was "that gay marriage."

Unbelievable, but true. People are scared to death that two people of the same sex are going get married. Don't ask me why. I'm f-ing sick of trying to figure out the mindset of those STUPID people.
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