Inquest into shooting of John Williams starts (na woodcarver shot by cop)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013892533_inquest10m.html
Dashcam vid @ link also, you don't see Williams getting shot but you hear the whole thing.

fallowed by suicide by cop. We don't exactly know what went down in those 7 secs. But shot in the back rules out intentional suicide by cop .Execution is impression and fallow up thought was suicide by cop. A judge ordered the release of the video for public viewing. My guess would be the judge did not like what was there and not there.

What we do know is that his fellow officers at the scene ruled the shoot unjustifiable and that says a lot.What we do not know is anything about witness's who may or may not have seen and heard what went down.

One thing is for certain, the thing unfolds in a court of law and not in public forum ,therefore we must wait for the details to be released.

Haven't read anything about a military back round the cop may or may not have. Post traumatic stress syndrome.

What that looked like to me is something you would see after dark in L.A.
Seattle is not L.A.

It was a sad sight to see.

Being hard of hearing, if I heard someone yelling "hey, hey, drop the knife" I'd probably turn to see who was being yelled at. Then I'd get shot in the side since I would probably also have a "stern look", that of concern, on my face. Both of which apply to Williams also.

The woman in the vid who is peacefully passing by not watching, then startles and turns when he is shot, to me this shows it wasn't much of a confrontation.

is that a lot can happen inside 7 secs .and I think the only real way to understand that is to have observed police operating in hot spots as is street terminology. I can go back to the 80's when there were multiple drugs dealers and pan handlers on every corner and in between at mid day ,than after dark it got worse. Incidents on bus's too.

One thing I know from solid observation is that no two people see the same thing the exact same way.
All that means is that I cannot see what went down beyond the camera.And from my experiences through observations ,I would not front judgment. However my first impressions are very often correct although not always.

I suppose we have to take into consideration the woman walking ahead of Williams with the shopping bag and equate that to how it is the cop perceived that situation.
I do not think how it was perceived by the cop through a professional observation in any way justifies the shooting and I think that determination was already made by investigators on the scene.

The cop said-he would not drop the knife almost as if he cold not believe he would not drop the knife and of course you would assume the cop had no knowledge of Williams hearing disorder or Williams for that matter.
raises the question ,how long had the cop been patrolling downtown ? Williams was a well known rover in the downtown area,police keep track of street activity an homeless activity in the streets. How can a roving patrol cop assigned to a downtown patrol area not know anything about street activity ? Just some questions of mind.

The cop appeared to have drawn his gun at the patrol car. It seemed so.

If the same situation with the lady walking across the street with a shopping bag and steps behind her ,and there were quite a few of those, had happened in oh say suburban Kirkland or Bellevue, I would imagine that would be cause for high alarm,but a immediate call for back up will have happened and there will have practically instantly been any number of patrol cars on the scene.

It appears as though the cop in question elected to not make the call and decided to go ahead on into the situation and handle it himself,gun drawn. But I don't know all the details surrounding that.

What it looks like is a rouge cop.

At the same time my experience through observations reminds me that 7 street seconds is not the same as 7 secs. passing in time,things go down and get out of hand quick. Quicker than you would even believe.

At the same time the shoot was ruled unjustifiable by his fellow officers and that may just point to rouge cop.

What I do know through my own observations is that I am not the least bit afraid to look at the facts head on straight away. And I have listened to other observers of the same incidents standing but a few steps away from me twisting what actually went down every which way but the way it happened.

My first impression upon viewing the video was exaction. That would translate to killer rouge cop.

So for me at least it is better to reserve judgment or opinion .It is up to the jury to break down and take apart those 7 seconds. And I do not imagine that will be a easy task to sit through and view.

I have no doubt Williams the carver was victimized at the very least by a cop with a bad attitude.Call it stressed out or inexperienced whatever they call it. Simply put, is the guy such a bad shot that he just could not shoot Williams in the leg to take him down if he really thought he had to fire his weapon ?

But again, I dono, I did not see what went down inside those 7 secs.

on page 8 second column about mid way there is but one sentence about witnesses account.
scant for information it says in one line

Witnesses told police they didn't see williams act in a threatening manor.

The knife was located in the closed position.

And department commanders changed their take on what occurred after the news conference the next day.
Ok so the story was that Williams attacked Birk the cop - and that had to have been Birk's testament to what went down. From the video we assume Birk was the only cop on the scene .Unless there was another cop out of camera view . Doubtful although we don't know for sure. So Birk's word as he described what went down to his superiors was the word of a cop sworn to uphold the law as told to his superiors.

So it is safe to assume that the credible witnesses of mention actually saw it go down and would therefore have been out of the cameras view or to the right of the camera.

The witness you mentioned was walking away from the scene than turned after having heard the shots fired ,therefore she could not have seen what went down prior to the shots having been fired.

Still you have to ask, what exactly does they didn't see Williams act in a threatening manor mean ?Didn't see as in didn't notice as if to say was vaguely paying attention,or didn't see meaning disputing the cops statement of what went down ? And what were the lines of sight in relation to the exact position of the shooting.

What we do know is that a cop with gun drawn in pursuit will draw the undivided attention of most any conscientious observer/bystander,what have you. Although some people will simply move on or away from potential danger. Think about it, a cop in pursuit with gun drawn.

The cop being a trained observer must have been aware of bystanders,or that was oversight,given five shots were fired off and four hit the carver. One stray. I dono, the more you think into it the more complicated it gets.

It does seem to point to a rouge cop though doesn't it-(?)

27 yrs. old with 2 years experience.No mention of prior service or military service.

To me that shows he was shot as he was turning to see who was yelling and why. A "stern look" to pow pow pow pow pow in under 4 secs. It does seem to point to a rouge cop and I hope the SPD get their shit together soon and quickly as this should not have happened, and/or this cop should never have been able to be out on his own like this.

Question: if he were afraid for his life, why didn't he call for backup which came so quickly after he shot? They would have been there within moments but no, Birk left his car, gun in hand.

Rogue cop and something is rotten in the way the force is run.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013896219_inquest11m.html

is very different from did not see as it said in the Seattle Times.

I would imagine persons who are fimiliar with what goes on down in the streets have some hard opinions too.What you call the street wise.

If than I were to imagine a rouge cop with gun drawn who would use that gun without hesitation given any reason justified or not ,than I would also imagine that the thought would occure to the rouge cop that if a shot to cripple the target were to be ruled unjustified ,than the target would than in turn sue the city and that would not only reflect very badly on the cop but could or would result in termination.

Those would be the thoughts of a rouge killer cop if I were to imagine that.

Thoughts pass in the split of seconds too.

That's if I were to imagine.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013905500_inquest12m.html


Oh f'ing liar. He was walking along not bothering anyone. Yes, I watched the video. He's walking, concentrating on what he's doing, not bothering anyone.



You instigated something, got up close then shot him when he turned to see if it was he you were yelling at. Because he had a "very stern, very serious, very confrontational look on his face. If you were trained to treat as a threat anyone standing a short distance away with an edged weapon, WHY the FUCK did you run up to him that close? Seriously?

If I am cutting up an apple with a pocket knife, you yell at me (from behind) and I turn to see if it is me you are yelling at, you are trained to shoot me? Wtf?

If you thought he were impaired and a threat, WHY did you get that close that you felt your only recourse was to kill him?

Stay tuned for more as this proceeds.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013914908_inquest13m.html

made all the associations threat-odd behavior- altered state of some sort or other and he said he feared for his own safety.

Again to get a mind wrap around that I have to imagine the same thing going down in downtown Bellevue or Kirkland., about the same way. The thing is I cannot imagine the patrol cars arriving at the scene after the fact in those two cities.

Joe,a guy who works out of the Million airs Club and who is by definition ,street wise.Joe said ,that's it,you got it.
Now you ever hear the term farm boy? Suppose Birk the cop grew up out there somewhere where the apples grow and the buffalo roam a small town where everything is easy going and simple? Downtown to farm boy was about 2 city block long with a general store ,a dentist office, The doctors office the Five & Dime what changed to K Mart you know, down town is just about a block . The rest is farms.

Sure Joe said, in Bellevue or kirkland it will have gone down different. common sense will tell most anybody if you think to need to draw yer weapon or will, yer going to want backup fast. you have to want back up fast and cops are also trained to back up fellow officers in THAT very kind of situation fast, you know ? That is police emergency and requires immediate back up. You were in the military what's general alert or general quarters on a ship.
All hands to battle stations right? Officer requires immediate assistance . That's why there will have been five cars on the scene in a seeming flash instant in Bellevue ,in Kirkland and in Seattle if that alert had been initiated.

The hell put the whole situation as it were in farm boy's home town and than try to get a mind wrap on how farm boy saw what farm boy saw .Kirkland and Bellevue is the big city too ya know ?

But yer right said Joe, when I do work in Bellevue or Kirkland ,things are a little different and what I wouldn't want to seem like is anything odd or out of place . You know dress code and appropriate mannerism which of course applies here as well. joe points to a change of cloths he keeps in a back back pack-these are my get the work done cloths ,what I got on is travelers. Joe uses Metro to commute.

But it looks like farm boy became cow boy doesn't it ? He decided to handle it himself-make my day all that.
But like you say I think he lied to his superiors about what went down and most likely didn't see the witness's ,- wide open range all that

From Joe down at the Million airs club.

Joe had a point and when you put it all as it went down in a town where downtown is one block and the rest is farms ,it is none the less outrageous and completely out of order. What you call unjustified .Birk thought the carver was unseemly and could not tolerate. He acted alone which is rouge.

There was zero effort to defuse the situation because nobody else was called in to assist.It will seem the cop was not interested in the least bit to be taken under radio advisement. Drop the knife is a command order. The gun is power. Lack of experience may the culprit.

IF Birk thought Williams was perhaps a danger to others, and IF he had been trained to shoot if getting within a certain distance of someone with a knife, then WHY did he approach him as he did? Why did he not call for backup ("no time"?)? Then why did he approach him close enough to feel he was endangering himself?

I hope all this will get the SPD to look at their training.

As trained observers cops will notice and or spot odd behavior or what is out of the ordinary. That's altered state of some type or other by Birk's statement. to patrol in downtown Seattle or big city downtown anywhere odd is ordinarily seen . If every person who seems odd and out of pace by how it is one carry's oneself were locked up in the jails for even just a few days there would be no room in the jails for criminals.

So what Birk saw was a trained professional observation lacking experience in the field. Basically a raw observation with zero experience to draw from making critical decisions and acting upon those decisions.

The only thing that can save Birk's ass now is the book.I wonder if Birk was aware people were watching or even there ?

Simply ask this question-if Williams had survived the shooting,what kind of a case would it be ?And could that have anything what so ever to do with why it is five shots were fired off ?

Scuttlebutt: Criminals are not the only one's that know and know how to operate through the in's and out's.

I do not think it is entirely impossible that the cop thought his own life was in danger,but if that is the case that cop does not know his ass from a hole in the ground or doesn't care to.

The reason I bring up the suggestion is because of the inaccurate statement Birk gave his superiors about what went down. That seems to indicate his side of what went down was altered to provide himself with a legal justifiable cover. In short to cover his own ass.

Again, I wasn't there and did not see.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013914908_inquest13m.html

Police officer Birk demonstrating what he says he saw Williams look like.


Now, let's look at some other pictures of John Williams. Gee, I wonder if it is possible he was turning with a frown because he was trying to see who was yelling? Shot for having a stern look and not hearing well. As far as the cultural differences in OP, some cultures do not walk down the street smiling at cops. Or other strangers.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013926779_inquest14m.html

http://kuow.org/program.php?id=22344

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/01/13/day-four-into-williams-inquest-civilian-witnesses-say-williams-was-not-a-threat

from a full body turn. Birk (the cop ) gave a very different statement claiming Williams was positioning himself for attack mode.

Sirgeas -his visual line of sight was unobstructed -very different from what was reported yesterday. The clear unobstructed visual carry's weight.

And Williams did not show any apparent signs of threat with his knife and was not holding it up and open.

And there are two eye witness's. 7 secs. total,4 from command. Officer is 28 years of age.

having peace about it at some time. 28 yrs. Shaking my head. I hope he is able to accept what he did, then is able to find peace with accepting his part.

Letters to the editor
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/northwestvoices/2013939995_inquestcontinuesintofatalshootingofwoodcarverbyseattleofficer.html




Testimony is to resume Friday and continue next week at the King County Courthouse in Seattle.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/433460_inquest14.html

Since the knife was found closed, and he was turning towards the cop, seems more and more the cop was "mistaken".

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2013966967_inquest_resumes_into_spd_offic.html

--I thought "Dammit, the guy couldn't HEAR him! He almost certainly couldn't afford hearing aids."

as John Williams did, turn to see who was yelling at them. Peacefully walking along carrying a legal pocketknife, minding your own business. Hearing noise of someone yelling behind them, turn to see if it were you.

He couldn't afford hearing aids.

He had a "stern look" on his face? So? It was sunny (odd, I know), he was Native American, he was drunk. All of which explain the "stern look".

If cop Birk was trained to shoot someone if he was within a certain distance of someone with an "edged" instrument, then WHY the FUCK did HE run up and get so close?

5 seconds to getting out of his car, escalating the situation and bam.

I sure hope the Seattle PD looks closer at who they hire, how they train him, etc.

I wish Birk showed the slightest remorse in what he did, took the slightest responsibility beyond defending himself.

Thanks for reading this, wasn't sure if anyone was, but this story hits me on several levels.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013971154_inquest19m.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2013975733_list_of_questions_being_delibe.html
Jurors are weighing 13 questions (with subquestions). They do not have to give unanimous answers. They can say yes, no, or unknown.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/433778_inquest19.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013989423_inquest21m.html

To finance, carve, and raise a memorial totem pole in the City of Seattle in 2011-2012.Description:John T. Williams, a Ditidaht master carver, was shot and killed by Officer Ian Birk of the Seattle Police Department on August 30, 2010 while carrying a small, legal folding knife that he used for carving. His family, all master carvers also, will carve a 30 - 40 foot totem pole in John's memory, and then have a traditional raising ceremony to permanently erect the pole in a public space in Seattle.

Contact csmartin67 {at} gmail.com
About:Working to raise funds to erect a totem pole in a public space in Seattle, carved by the Williams family, to honor the memory of their brother, John T. Williams.