There are going to be separate petitions for Walker & Kleefisch

undeterred

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Sat Oct-29-11 01:12 PM
Original message

There are going to be separate petitions for Walker & Kleefisch

Edited on Sat Oct-29-11 01:18 PM by undeterred

I was over at the new recall office in Madison this morning and apparently the word has come down from the GAB that there will be 2 sets of petitions required, one for Walker, and one for Kleefisch.

This does make sense to me since they were elected separately. But it also highlights the magnitude of the task, which is now gathering some 540,000 signatures twice- and perhaps having to explain to some people why Kleefisch has to be recalled also. This is a lot of work to do in 60 days so I hope everyone is setting aside some time for it!

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hayrow

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Sat Oct-29-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message

1. Am I missing something?

Why recall Kleefisch at this time? She will not be governor unless Walker resigns prior to the his recall. Getting the signatures to recall Walker will be tough enough. Unless things change substantially, who cares who's Lt. Governor? I believe trying to recall Kleefisch will be "a bridge too far".

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PeaceNikki

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Sat Oct-29-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. Because, in a nutshell: she's infuckingsane

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hue

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Sat Oct-29-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #2

3. True enough! Nonetheless this will be a very difficult task!! n/t

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PeaceNikki

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Sat Oct-29-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #3

4. TOTALLY agree.

I don't know if it will be *more* difficult to have a second and I have said before how disappointed I am in the timing they've chosen to proceed. I think the cold, holidays and another special election (turnout of Democrats is terrible in these) will be greater bumps for us to overcome than a second petition.

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undeterred

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Sat Oct-29-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. Let us all get ourselves out there in great force

as early as possible, anticipating that harsh weather may come in January. If we get the lion's share done before Christmas there will be time for a good campaign and preparations for the election.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

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hayrow

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Sun Oct-30-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #2

8. Please provide some assitance with this.

When I am asked by some apolitical usually uninterested, "independent" why this Kleefisch person is being recalled, (i.e."what did she do wrong?"), how do I answer?

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AleksS

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Sun Oct-30-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #8

17. I would think the simple answer should work

I think, as usual, the simple answer is best:

(First, smile!) "That's a great question. I need you to sign a recall petition for her too because she's the lieutenant Governor that Walker was elected with, and the board that runs these things says we have to have a separate petition for her, even though the Governor and Lieutenant Governor are elected as a team--like President and Vice President. We'll just need your signature here, name here, and address. Thanks!"

Until there's a reason to get more complicated--and I bet with most people who were willing to sign in the first place it won't need to get more complicated--the KISS* rule applies. (*KISS = Keep It Simple.)

Getting too much into the relationship between Gov and Lt. Gov, and the line-of-succession, and Lt.'s duties, etc. could just lead to confusion and boredom, and possibly even conflict. Kind of like in sales: Acknowledge the question, answer it as simply as possible, and then close.

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Yon_Yonson

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Sat Oct-29-11 10:16 PM
Response to Original message

6. I two wish they would have started later and not concentrate on Kleefisch

But so be the prevailing winds so we gotta work twice as hard .... let's get this thing started so we can nail their ass to the wall.

I think the GAB is part of the problem and I am willing to bet that their is a tunnel from GAB offices right into Herr Walker's office!

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undeterred

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Sun Oct-30-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #6

7. What if we had decided to only collect signatures for Walker

and right before handing them in he resigned and handed over his office to Kleefisch? Then there would be no recall and the office of Governor would be controlled by the same forces it is now. We would have wait another whole year to recall Governor Kleefisch.

She's been a lot less visible than Walker so people may not hate her as much but I have no doubt that she would carry out the same agenda, and that they would use every legal avenue possible to keep power. So I do think recalling both is an absolute necessity.

I don't really think having two petitions is a partisan decision- I would have been shocked if they allowed us to do two offices on one petition.

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Yon_Yonson

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Sun Oct-30-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #7

9. Good point

I have also heard that because Kleefisch is an unknown (we will have to stop and explain who she is and why she needs to be recalled) that most voters will get confused and sign neither recall petition. I am optimistic about the recall and I shall be in the streets collecting signatures.

How many signatures are required to recall Kleefisch.

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undeterred

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Sun Oct-30-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #9

10. Roughly same amount.

It won't be exactly the same because it depends on the exact number she was elected with, and the numbers are never exactly the same, though close. I guess we are aiming at 700,000 for Walker but it will be harder to convince everyone to sign for Kleefisch.

I really think the point is to emphasize that both of them are puppets of corporations and that Kleefish is no different than Walker. Somebody called her "Waukesha Barbie" at the Dem rally last week. She's just a media airhead who will do whatever the Koch brothers or ALEC tell her to do, same as Walker.

She has no agenda of her own, which is why all I can remember about her is saying stupid things like gay marriage leads to marrying a table or a dog. She's just a freak, even dumber than Walker but just as dangerous.

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dragonlady

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Sun Oct-30-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #10

12. The number of signatures is the same

For every recall, it is 25% of the number of votes for governor in the district of the person being recalled.

You're quite right about Kleefisch. We should do some background research on what she has done during her year in office and send it to the recall organizers.

:hi:

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undeterred

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Sun Oct-30-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #12

13. So the number of signatures required to recall the Lt Gov

is 25% the number of votes cast for the governor and not the number cast for Lt Gov? That's a little weird, but its probably the same number anyway.

:hi:

from John Nichols:

If there is any political argument whatsoever for removing Walker, there is a parallel argument for removing Kleefisch.

But even if that were not the case, the lieutenant governor would have to be recalled.

Failing to recall her would create structural confusion that could rise to the level of a constitutional crisis.

Under the Wisconsin Constitution, the governor and lieutenant governor are nominated in separate primaries but are then elected in November on a single ticket.

If the governor is unable to perform his duties, by law the lieutenant governor steps in. This can be a temporary circumstance, when the governor is out of state. Or it can be permanent, if the governor is incapacitated or voluntarily steps down. There�s a clear line of succession.

If the voters were to replace Walker with a Democrat while leaving Kleefisch in place, the new circumstance would create confusion, potential legal challenges, and openings for all manner of political mischief. It would, as well, err against the intent of the state constitution as it is currently drawn, which is that the governor and lieutenant governor operate as a governing team.

Scott Walker and Rebecca Kleefisch came into office as political and governing partners. They should leave the same way.

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undeterred

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Sun Oct-30-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #13

14. Are they actually on the same ticket after the primary?

Maybe my brain is still back in Illinois.

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Kashka-Kat

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Sun Oct-30-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #6

15. Kleefisch is a coffee table - I dont really have a good argument for why

Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 08:21 PM by Kashka-Kat

to recall her - unlike Walker and the repub senators who actively acted to pass objectionable legislation.

Being a religious airhead is not sufficient grounds, IMHO. My sense is that unlike Walker and a lot of repubs who use their supposed religious faith in a crass calculating way to go after the religious voter, I think Ms K is a true believer who puts her fundamentalist religion first.

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undeterred

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Sun Oct-30-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #15

16. She isn't just a religious airhead, she's a political airhead.

Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 08:30 PM by undeterred

And she will greatly handicap any Democrat we put into the Governor's seat. Isn't that reason enough to recall her?

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hayrow

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Sun Oct-30-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #16

18. How can the Lt. Governor handicap anyone or anything?

Unlike the U.S. Senate, the Wisconsin Senate has a total of 35 Senators, and it is highly unlikely that the Lt. Governor would break a tie. It is unlikely that she would have any influence on anything unless the Governor ceases to be the Governor. I really see no reason to waste the time and effort to attempt to recall an ugly benign lump. The surgery will cause far more problems than just leaving it alone.

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undeterred

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Sun Oct-30-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #18

19. I don't think the people advising us to do this are stupid.

Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 11:09 PM by undeterred

This has been very carefully thought through and even though it is more work, we really have to remove the Lt Gov from office along with Scott Walker... the office is not trivial, and she is not just a benign lump. She would constantly undermine a Democratic governor. The two offices are designed to work as a team, not to be at odds with each other.

If we do not collect signatures to remove her, Walker can simply resign in mid-January and hand the office of Governor over to her, and we will be stuck with the same agenda and no recall. We would have to wait another year to recall her. If she were to stay in office as Lt Gov she could cause a lot of problems for whomever is elected as our Democratic governor- why wouldn't we want to make things as good as we can for that person? Why leave her around to make problems?

Even the idea that she is the backup governor alone should be enough to make all of us sign both petitions. Let me put it this way:

Not caring if Kleefisch is your backup Governor is like not caring if Palin is your backup President.

John Nichols spells it out here:

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/john_nichols/article_0a6112b4-6809-596c-9524-7e1fecd44235.html

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seacaves

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Mon Oct-31-11 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #19

21. Please see my post # 20... Thanks

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hayrow

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Mon Oct-31-11 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #19

22. The goal is to replace Walker, not fight the battle we lost in 2010

I believe Walker can be beat because he has proven to the public to be dishonest, corrupt, and a Koch operative. I do not think trying to beat the conservative movement, although they are currently on the defense, makes sense. It will be a much tougher fight, and one we could easily lose because of our lack of money and leadership.

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sybylla

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Mon Oct-31-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #22

24. Tying the senators to Walker will make recalling them easier.

But I agree on the money issue. Even with solid candidates to challenge them, money will be thin on the ground.

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AsherWI

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Sun Oct-30-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message

11. Ugh!

Anything to slow us down!

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seacaves

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Mon Oct-31-11 02:35 AM
Response to Original message

20. In the training session I attended today, they also said there will be 1 petitions

--one for walker and one for Kleefisch.

Also, it was announced that Terry Moulton from the 23red district will be recalled and we will be collecting signatures for him-which was a surprise to me, but a good surprise. I have not seen it on the news ANYWHERE.
I know his name was on the potential list but it still surprised me.

Also, they announced they only wanted 2 petitions to be circulating-one for Walker and for Moulton, so Kleefisch will not be on the collection list for the 23rd district.

I can see this would cut down on work for all concerned but somehow it is worrisome---

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sybylla

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Mon Oct-31-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #20

23. They can make up for the "2-petition" rule in areas without a senate recall

It shouldn't be that hard since it sounds like there will only be about 4-6 senate recalls, and that's if the pukes go after Kathleen Vinehout and Julie Lassa.

The Moulton recall is still being talked about locally, but those working for the DPW/United Wisconsin seem to be pushing it. I realize that if we fail to take out Walker, the hope is we can turn one house.

I agree that we desperately need to stop the Koch machine and I'm all for it, but I'm a little worried about the extra cost of the senate recalls. Even in a good economy, there's only so much money to go around.

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seacaves

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Tue Nov-01-11 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #23

26. It was the DPW that was leading the training session and

he said that the DPW can do that during the recalls (per Kennedy of GAB). The separation comes during the election (if and when scheduled).

The training sessions were for those in the Vinehout district (large district that includes the southern part of Eau Claire County and for Moulton-Republican from the 23rd district which includes Chippewa Falls.

*Those collecting sigs for Walker in Vinehout's district will include collecting sigs for Kleefish (Vinehout).

Those collecting sigs for Walker in Moulton's district will collect sigs for Walker and Moulton BUT NOT KLEEFISCH. They only want people collecting signatures to carry 2 petitions. In some ways, I can see the logic in that.

Most of Moulton's district went for Kloppenberg in April (including mostly rural county of Chippewa. Moulton has a sport's shop in Chippewa Falls and lives in Chippewa Falls-the city. Clark county is very rural and went for Prosser. So, it will be a crap shoot to take Moulton down.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/119497684.html
http://legis.wisconsin.gov//Senate/sen23/Sdist23.pdf

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sybylla

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Wed Nov-02-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #26

27. I'm in Moulton's district - both the old and the gerrymandered one

Edited on Wed Nov-02-11 04:26 PM by sybylla

I don't think it's as much of a crap shoot as you do.

I know what we have to do on the ground. The reason the DPW wants Moulton is that he didn't win by a lot. And there's a lot of buyer's remorse out there since he became a Kochsucker. I'm to the point of trusting that the DPW, who doesn't have any extra money laying around to blow on a crap shoot, would only be pushing this if they had some polling show this seat as a real possibility in our win column.

So long as Moulton has to face a recall in his old district, I believe it's doable. Especially with the strong Dem candidate I hear rumored to challenge him.

Clark county is definitely a wart on this otherwise Dem district, but it is small potatoes when it comes to the number of votes it contributes to the total. The trick in this state senate seat is to win in Eau Claire, Dunn and Chippewa counties and not lose by much in Clark. It was the cities of Eau Claire and Chippewa Falls that let Sen. Kreitlow down last year.

Hopefully the Dems who couldn't be bothered to show up at the polls there in 2010 have gotten their heads out of their asses and will get to work this year.

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seacaves

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Tue Nov-01-11 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #20

25. My subject line should have said 2 petitions (not "1") sorry.

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