Liberals or NDP?

I'll be moving back home next year after having lived in the U.S. South for almost 10 years. I intend to become politically active, but am unsure whether to join the Liberals or NDP. I'm reading about their platforms on their websites; does anyone have anything to add? It would be best to focus on issues rather than personalities (e.g. I'm not interested in personal attacks on Paul Martin).

Thanks!

They have the best leader of all Canadian parties. Support the NDP, maybe they and the Quebec Party can form an alliance against Bushco!

they have a hell of a lot more ground to gain. They can do it though.

The grits have moved far too much to the right. By Canadian standards, that is, but the fact remains that they have sold out some of thier lefty, loyal members. I've seen the result and it is not pretty.
The NDP has gotten a new life, however Canadians in general are still wary of them.

faux Conservative/Alliance/Reform #s. Both parties have their positives and negatives. The NDP are excellent at fighting for social programs but not known for touting fiscal responsibility. The Liberals are definitely the centrist party and is currently leaning more right than left although, with a minority govt and dependent on the NDP to stay in power they may have to shift a little to the left. Not sure if my comments are helpful but here they are anyway, lol.

So they actually ARE known for fiscal responsibility...

The Liberals are OK on the Gay stuff at least... Although they're worse under Martin than they were under Chretien...


My view is Anyone But Harper! Strategic voting is VERY important to keep the Harperites out of power...

SnowBack

(Even though I'm in the U.S., I still voted for the NDP in the recent election!)

so I would beg to differ with you on that point but only on that point. I, too, voted NDP in the last election although, as posted above, I lean Liberal. Keeping the repub lites out of government is the most important thing imo.

Um, no the BC NDP LIED about balancing the budget. Then fucked things up worse.

... the Ontario Liberals, who LIED AND LIED about their finances.

http://www.publicpower.ca/the_party/history_6.htm

Many Ontarians felt it was time for the Tory dynasty, one of the oldest in any Western democracy, to come to an end. So Rae and Peterson signed an accord putting the Liberals in power and ending the 43-year–old Conservative rule. In return, Peterson agreed to enact a list of NDP policies.

These policies were so popular the Liberals were prepared to take them to the people. In 1987 the Liberals won a huge majority under Peterson. The NDP under Rae became the official opposition to the Liberal government. Although Peterson’s government enjoyed years of great popularity, Rae’s NDP distinguished itself in opposition by hard work on environmental and labour issues, ... .

... In Ontario, Premier David Peterson called an election in the summer of 1990 and expected to easily win another majority. ... Rae galvanized opposition to a Liberal government that was seen as arrogant and remote and had turned that way in very short order. The once popular Liberal government was plagued by scandals and involvement in the unpopular Meech Lake Accord. They were also perceived as being too close to land developers. The NDP’s active environmentalism and their promise of “driver-owned auto insurance” also enticed voters.

The NDP won 74 seats with 37 per cent of the popular vote. ... Ontario’s workers and the poor finally had their government. ...

... However, things were not as they seemed at Queen’s Park. A recession was coming and the books were not in good shape. The Peterson government had run for election in 1990 on the basis that they had a small budgetary surplus. Rae’s Treasuer Floyd Laughren announced just months after the NDP took office that the province was actually running a deficit of $3-billion. The Liberals were accused of cooking the books and calling a snap election before the recession struck in earnest. Because they unexpectedly lost this election, they were caught out.

And the Conservatives -- the Harris Conservatives, one of the most vicious right-wing governments Canada has seen -- were elected in the backlash against Rae's government.

Gee, if the Liberals hadn't lied and left the NDP holding the empty bag, I wonder what might have happened ...


Funny thing about that Peterson guy. He's from London Ont, bastion of the Ontario PC party ... and he's married to the daughter of just about the biggest bagman that party ever had. It can be so hard to tell a Liberal from a Conservative without a program ...

They weren't amazing, but they were MILES ahead of the PC Government.

Okay, buddy said the NDP in the Western provinces was fisaclly responsible, which they weren't.

From what I remember, Manitoba's NDP Gov't had balanced budgets...

But I didn't realize I put the "s" on there... Sorry about that :)

http://www.greenparty.ca/

It's growing faster than any of the traditional parties. It won't be long before they're elcting MPs, stealing members from other parties, and becoming a force to be reckoned with.

I think the answer is "Liberals".

Now, your confusion may be a result of living too long in the wilderness, but the thing is, the NDP is a social democratic party. And social democrat is just not Liberal Lite.

The substance in the two contexts is different, but you may get an idea of how the question sounds in the Canadian context if you consider someone moving to the US and asking whether to get involved with the Republicans or the Democrats. Or, leaving aside the entire electability thing, with the Democrats or the Greens.

Obviously not everyone who votes for the NDP adheres to social democratic principles and policies, or would even know what they were if s/he tripped on them. And frankly, not all those in positions of leadership or influence in the NDP, or all those who are NDP and are in positions of power, are strict adherents either. But being a social democrat remains the basic reason for being an activist in the party.

So someone who wants to become politically active should have an easy time of it, when it comes to deciding whether to do it within/for the NDP.

And regardless of whether you are interested in personal attacks on Paul Martin, some of us just think that having a corrupt politician / corporate profiteer as leader does speak volumes of the party in question.

Even though I am not a hard separatist , I think that Duceppe from the Bloc is the most socially acceptable party in Canada. If they could let go of some separatist dogma they could have people in many precints all over Canada. After the debates there was so many canadian (out of Québec) who were frustrated over the fact that they had only 2 choices: Martin and Harper. Leighton is O.K. but in my opinion he cannot be taken seriously right now. He came across more like an over optimistic boy scout. You wouldn't beleive how many canadians wrote to Gilles Duceppe saying that they would have like to have a "representant" of the Bloc in their neibourghood. All these Canadian are not separatist since they live outside Québec but they were able to see and hear someone who was presenting a fresh and new approach to the Canadian citizen.

I will repeat that I am not a hard boiled separatist. But listening to Ducepppe in the debates, I found that he was the most refreshing and credible candidate. Mind you I stil voted for Martin because I was too scared that Harper would win. In my opinion he is a coward who wants to embrace Bushco policies in order to be closer to the world power.

Martin was the only choice for the canadians who wanted to choose somebody that Bushco whould find worthy to talk too. Both are hard capitalist.
Martin has a big challenge in front of him. He wants to built a new group called the L20 meaning the 20 nations rich enough and respected enough to be able to act when a crisis occur. (HAITI and Darfour), He started (Martin) to test his project last summer with european an southamerican leaders. So far all of them agreed 100% with him. The last and most important is Bush. At the end of the month your president will come for a 2 days visit and Martin wants him to get on board. Martin's agenda on this project even though its looks altruistic is mostly a way to make his mark in history. If I want to be really honest I should add that Martin 's goal is also to perpetuate Canadian'tradition in being a country more involved in peace keeping and humanatorian mission.

Last night Martin was interviewed about Bush visit and the possibilty of big protests... He said that he encouraged people to demonstrate their frustration towards Bush if it is in an respecfull way... You seee he doesnt't have much choice. He knows that 75% of all canadian and 85 or 90% of Quebequers hate Bush and his right wing policies. He cannot alianated the "most powerfull man on eath" but at the same times he cannot forget that the canadian people expect that he will defend our independance vis à vis our southern neigbour.

Enough politic for tonight. I generally do not get involved in ideologies discussion and/or the merits of the candidates. Tonight I felt the urge to give a voice to the french canadian and their "representant" in the federal government. We as a people had a lot of influence over the last elections. We as a people have and will continue to have a major influence in the canadian culture(identity) If it wasn't the case why do you think that the rest of Canada would mind about Québec leaving the country. I lived In BC I travelled across the country and I saw first hand some of the fondamental reasons why the anglos don't want us to split.

Personally I am not sure about what would be the best way to preserv our tongue and culture.
We also need enough space and resources to support our artists and intellectual so our poeple can stay alive and represent us around the world.

I got a little carried away... I felt like someone in my family is talking to a stranger about us but omitting to mention that one member is a little different that the rest.

With respect

Lise Québec city

your point is moot as there are no bloc candidates outside of Quebec ergo the bloc is a 'provincial' party not a federal one.

... since I hadn't said anything you seem to disagree with. The issue of Quebec within Canada hadn't been raised in the thread, even, I hadn't thought.

I don't disagree regarding Duceppe. (I really do wish that someone could teach him to speak in English without sounding like a wounded goose. It's not his English, it's his voice -- it's a barrier to people taking him seriously when they only hear him in English, which is how most of Canada outside Quebec hears him. He has a completely different and quite pleasant voice when he speaks in French.)

However, he is not completely representative of the BQ as a whole, and more importantly, there is nothing even vestigially social democrat about the PQ within Quebec at present. It is simply another right-wing party, exploiting the need/desire for cultural autonomy for the purposes of the indigenous élite of Quebec.

I agree with what my anglo buddy in Quebec had to say about this in an opinion piece in La Presse before the last federal election, which I translated in another post here, if you're interested:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=190&topic_id=1527#1559

Quebec's best protection for cultural autonomy is Canada, and a fractured Canada would mean the end of social democracy in North America for our lifetimes.

I say Vote Green...could take a couple decades but maybe one day, maybe one day?