Canada, Afghanistan, Bush, Obama and Gates

For the attention of my fellow Canadians, I posted this on the BN forum, but as usual with stories about Afghanistan, it didn't attract much attention there.

(originally posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3642455)

The initial post is below, with my comments (in italics).

I have added more comments below that.

- B

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Source: Toronto Star

OTTAWA–Canada will withdraw its troops from Afghanistan in 2011, even though U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates has hinted he would like to see the deadline extended, the federal government says.

Gates told reporters at Kandahar Airfield yesterday no country has worked harder than Canada and he would be disappointed to see Canadian troops leave the mission.

Read more: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/552549

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I'm a Canadian, and I'd like American progressives to pay attention to what is happening here before it's too late, and before we all find ourselves having to join protests against "Obama's chosen war".

The reality is that the overwhelming majority of Canadians want our troops out of this pointless, unwinnable war, and we have had a hard time making our Bush-like conservative government understand that. However, after much resistance, we do have all-party agreement in Parliament that we are out of there in 2011.

So now, as above, we have Bush's former defence secretary -- now Obama's defence sectretary (!!) -- campaigning against the antiwar majority in Canada, in support of the pro-war right-wing minority.

Great.

This is happening because Obama is apparently determined to escalate this war to get Osama and al Qaeda, neither of whom are who we are fighting in Afghanistan. His increased military presence there will cause more death and destruction, and in the end, when we all finally up and leave, the same religious extremists, drug lords and tribal barons who have run Afghanistan for the last 200 years will be back in power.

Obama's position on Afghanistan is a disaster for Canada, for the world, and it will be a political disaster for him at home once everyone understands that the war he is escalating is wrong, and achieves nothing.

So I would urge American progressives to please send Obama and his people a simple message: Stop the war, don't escalate it.

- B

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Note to Canadian DUers: I think we should be trying to make other DUers understand that Obama is on the wrong track here.

of the harper cabal and the installation of a coalition government to ensure we DO pull out in 2011 at the latest. American DUers are, imo, already well aware of Obama's position re Afghanistan as he has been consistent through out the primary and general election on this.

American DUers are, imo, already well aware of Obama's position re Afghanistan as he has been consistent through out the primary and general election on this.

I respectfully disagree. Most American progressives decided to overlook Obama's hawkish policy on Afghanistan as "election politics", but many figured (as did I) that once elected, he would find a way to move towards a non-military solution.

Instead, Obama is apparently intending to do exactly what he promised to do -- escalate the war. This is a bad policy that will make a bad war worse, and after all the death and destruction he will inflict on the place, there will be no change in the eventual outcome -- the feudal lords that have run the country for 200 years will be there long after we leave.

I am angry that Obama's support for the war will make it easier for the cons here to resuscitate their hopes for extending the mission. It pisses me off that Obama (through Gates) is now giving Harper support in thwarting the antiwar majority in Canada.

As for urging DUers and American progressives to take up the cause, I don't see the problem in trying to do this while still opposing extension of the mission here.

- B

but don't expect them to have any impact except with the "choir" that already is trying to stop the war. Canadians' opinions on Afghanistan or just about anything else does not count in the US, never has.

Again, imo, it would be more effective to strengthen our own anti-Afghanistan position in Canada and try and get the date for withdrawal moved up from 2011. If Canada were to pull it's troops out it would make it more difficult for the US to continue their occupation.

I don't think you're right about our views not counting at all in the US, it's just that ours are among many voices heard, and understandably so. But we can speak like anyone else on DU, and receive attention according to the value placed on what we write here.

So I don't think it is bad thing to try to raise the idea on DU, respectfully, that Obama's policy on Afghanistan is (not "may be") a serious problem, and that they should think more about and speak out on this now. If such postings persuade a few readers to think about this issue a bit more, then I'm fine with that. Certainly can't hurt anything to raise the issue.

To address your second point, I too want to wind down up and get out as soon as absolutely possible. But I also think that undoing the political architecture of the Parliamentary ceasefire on the current Afghan mission would be an overwhelming and high-risk project. I would prefer pursuing a strategy of gradual withdrawal from aggressive combat -- starting now -- with complete withdrawal by our 2011 deadline.

I would also want Canada to urge Obama not to escalate the war by sending in 20,000 high-tuned troops into southern Afghanistan. Because of the reaction to them, this will make real security in the country worse. It is time to reduce and get out, militarily. As for post-war aid, we have an obligation to, at minimum, provide payment for the physical, economic, social and human damage we have caused, and the cost of rebuilding. A generous solution would also compensate for suffering caused by our armies and weaponry.

- B

is a necessity and is winnable. I"m a quebeckers DUers, and I think the Canada should take his responsibility in the NATO. And we just cant let down everything in Afghanistan. I disagree with your pessimism.

I have read extensively about this war, and I conclude that no good will come from it. The people who have run the place will continue to run the place after we leave. Fortunately, the majority of Canadians agree with me about this war being pointless.

If you want to make a case to the contrary, let's hear it.

- B