Canadians - Need your help re: socialized medicine argument

I have a friend who considers herself an expert in socialized medicine because she has a couple of relatives in Canada. Whenever I suggest that we'd probably be better off with a national health care system, she always claims that her relatives in Canada hate their system and most Canadians do. She claims they come to the USA if they need surgery.
I tend to believe that only wealthy Canadians might prefer the American system to the Canadian socialized system. How do you Canadian DUer's actually feel about your health care system? Would you please give me some info to counter these attacks on your system?
Thank you from Pennsylvania, USA.

and in fact most Canadians feel pretty strongly about keeping our socialized system. There are some that would like to create a hybrid system such as is available in some European countries but I don't think anyone that is at all informed would want to go to a completely privatized system.

There are some myths out there such as we can't pick our own doctors (we can).

I feel sorry for Americans because your insurance costs are so high and then on top of that there are high deductibles. Hence, 45 million uninsured in your country.

I just had a baby this year and you know what I had to pay for that?

Nothing. Excellent pre and post-natal care and I had a C-section. All covered by our national health care plan.

And if your cousin says we pay more on our income taxes I call bullshit because I have seen on threads here on DU how much it costs for health insurance down there and it's more than my combined family income taxes. (We are middle class).

There admittedly problems with wait lists for some services (my Dad is currently waiting for knee surgery) but overall I think we have it better in terms of what you get for what you pay.

but I count it a blessing that we have it. When anyone in my family has been ill, I don't worry about how we're going to afford treatment. It's not an issue.

I've never run into problems personally, though I've never needed major medical treatment. The one time I went to the ER, I had to wait about four hours, but that was on the day of a freezing rain storm when people were flooding in with injuries from falls. I go to my family doctor for my regular checkups and get my blood work done every six months (usually have to wait a half hour or so--big deal). I do NOT have to fear that medical expenses will bankrupt me. More to the point, neither does anyone else.

Add to that, I think that the universal medicare system acts as a social binding factor--everyone's in it together for better or worse, everyone shares the benefits and the hassles. I tried to explain to my mother-in-law that the Candian health system makes sense only if you quit asking, "What can you get out of it?" and instead ask, "How does this help make a compassionate, fair, and caring society?" Well, I tried, anyway, but she just kept asking what you can get out of it...

Okay. Well, what you can get out of it is universal availability of necessary medical care. You get it, your neighbour gets it, your friends get it, your enemies get it. There are waiting times for a lot of treatments, but... well, what happens in the US system if you need hip replacement and you have no insurance? Your waiting time could last the rest of your life. That said, everyone's aware that waiting times are a problem--there are only so many doctors, nurses, med techs, MRIs, operating rooms, etc., and there's always the seductive beast to the south trying to recruit Canadian health professionals. That's probably the greatest enemy of the Canadian health care system.

That my two cents, anyway. Bottom line: I was born in the US and was often was unemployed and without health insurance; that sometimes cost me. I moved to Canada in 1990, and again have sometimes been unemployed, but have never been without access to health care, and I never will be--not for the entire rest of my life. So... we report, you decide. :evilgrin:

While debate rages in Canada over private versus public approaches to health care, elsewhere the evidence is pouring in that public is best.

In Britain, a major audit on the financial difficulties at London's public Queen Elizabeth Hospital shows that so-called P3s, or public-private partnerships, may promise savings but in fact carry overly heavy costs.

Meanwhile, in the United States, a study published this week in the prestigious American Journal of Medicine shows that the quality of care for Medicare patients is better when care is delivered by not-for-profit health plans, than by for-profit plans.

While many in Canada argue that the P3 concept is a good means of tapping private capital to help fund the country's burgeoning public infrastructure needs, the experience of the near-bankrupt London hospital underscores the fact that instead of reducing the risks to taxpayers, reliance on private money can actually increase those risks.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1135205411984

Do a bit of searching here and you will find quite a few questions and answers.

the report from the Commission on the Future of Health Care in Canada:

"The study paper, titled Canadians' Thoughts on Their Health Care System: Preserving the Canadian Model Through Innovation commissioned by the Commission on the Future of Health Care in Canada captures just over a decade of public opinion research about health care. The study concludes that the overwhelming majority of Canadians are definitive about their strong attachment to the current health care model and its principles. While they see the need for significant improvements, Canadians are not prepared to accept "radical change" says the study released in Ottawa in early June, 2002."

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/care/romanow/hcc0094.html

Seriously, no one here wants it.
Some do want, as others have said, a more European system (my far right dad and brother), or a 2-tier system, but they are very much in a small minority (And reside in Alberta, lol). And even they don't admire the American system.

I know of no one who has HAD to go to the USA for surgery. My FIL needed double knee replacement surgery and he waited a total of 6 weeks. Seems reasonable to me. :shrug:

I'd say a VAST majority of Canadians absolutely treasure their system and would NEVER opt for something other than socialized medicine.

FWIW, I've ran into many Americans online before who claim to know a Canadian who hates their health care system, but funny, living in Canada my whole life I have yet to run into any. :eyes:

care....Here is my experience and what I wrote....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3009706

Something worth noting is that I and others all emphasize that the Canadian system always needs some "tweaking" and study to improve its effectiveness. That's always a given; health care technologies and requirements change constantly for various reasons, not least of them the increase in longevity and the new, often unforeseen, issues that raises.

Point here: Canada's health care system needs "tweaking"; IMHO, the American system (which I've experienced) needs to be radically reconceived and rebuilt from the ground up. Medicare/Medicaid is the obvious template, but it's rapidly being shrunk and destroyed by this Republican administration--the exact opposite of what should be happening. I wish the very best for those brave souls who are working to save and expand health care in the US. :toast:

And the back of my hand to "boutique medicine".

But, as I recall, your pharmaceutical companies did very well under Bush's' health plan. Judging from the drug advertising that seeps across the border from the USA, all of your health problems can be solved with this pill or that pill.

And even though I believe in the 'power of placebo', I think that the health care system of the USA is running a dangerous con game on its' citizens. If the 'state' won't take responsibility for improving PUBLIC health, they might at least be expected to....NOT MAKE IT WORSE.

Hospital via 911 immediately, treated there, GP the next day, neurologist the day after that, MRI the day after that. Total cost= $0. Waiting time =0.

I pay for this kind of socialism through my taxes. It's one of the reasons I am willing to pay taxes.

If there are waits at the ER it's primarily for people showing up with minor stuff. Wait times when presenting with, for example, heart problems =0.

to get back to a system where I don't have to worry about health care if I get sick... Not being terrified to lose my job because I'll lose my health insurance...

A system to be PROUD of, instead of angry over like here in the U.S....

I've never known ANYONE who has gone to the US for surgery... and my friends and family are all in Ontario.... So I call BS on your friend....

...about this issue earlier in the month.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=190x9642

We like to coplain about waiting lists for certtain surgeries and high traffic at the ER sometimes, but I assure you, aside from a pocket of rich people who can afford it, most canadians are very happy with the healt care system.

Our media (especially) in Québec likes to blow every glitch out of proportion to sell newspapers but all in all, it's a great system, if not perfect.