In scotland there is a suicide every 14 hours

This is higher than down south, so it begs explanation. What
is your explanation for the dreadful rate of suicide north of the
border?

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1048872004

Yer aboot te catch the toe o me boot, Yoong Laddie Tyler, ef tha' IS yer name!

Oh wait. I get it. Carry on.

Seriously.

May not be an easily identifiable trait but as a smaller, sub-population, might not Scotland have concentrated certain traits that make it more probable ?

How much 'fresh' DNA has entered into the Scotish genome over the centuries as compared to other population groups in Great Britain and Ireland ?

Most of the Scottish population lives in the fairly crowded central section (Glasgow, Edinburgh) which has, for a long time, been very active in terms of trade both with the rest of Britain and the whole world. There's certainly been a lot of outward migration from the area (eg my great great grandfather was from Edinburgh), and I'd think a lot coming in too.

Romans
Gaels
Saxons
Angles
Jutes
Normans
& these were just invasions from outside the British Isles.

For most of the last 1000 years we've got on better with the rest of Europe than the English - so our trade links have been stronger. In my case I have two separate lines in my family tree from the low countries.

In fact the only inbreeding in my family tree is two cousins marrying in 18th c. London.

...I would consider sunlight deprivation to be a factor.

Long, dark winters...some people can't take it.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

which are even further north ?

...all of the sites I found could be argued that the rate was high or low and that the high suicide rate is a myth.

I have read over the years that the suicide rate in Scandinavia was attributed to sunlight deprivation and the pressure of a higher standard of living similar to the cultural demands of Japan.

I've also read that the suicide rate has dropped 28% in the last 8 years, which is being credited to the use of anti-depressants.

Most of the sites I found listed the Baltic nations as having the highest suicide rate per capita...again a contributing factor in my opinion could be sunlight deprivation.

From my own view point, I happen to love winter and can't believe that other people don't. I have some very close friends who get very depressed every winter and take medication to counter the winter blues.

For me it is reversed, I hate summers in Chicago...it's too hot, too humid and too long. This summer was nice and cool; it was the first summer I actually enjoyed.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

Here in north scotland, i am off the coast of norway, with norway
closer than london. Put on north american terms, this place would
be in the middle of the Hudson Bay with polar bears and sea ice
were it not for the gulf stream.

Around the winter solstice, the sun never really rises, it just comes
up for a long sunset, and indeed, there is a sorta animal instinct
that makes me tired when the nights are so incredibly long. So lets
say that a portion of the suicides are related to SAD.

I think another portion is due to cultural bullying, where people
feel they have no "out". Some cases of schoolkids i've read about
suiciding fit in this. I was hoping some of y'all had some more
insights in to this side of the problem, as i simply can't see the
solution being more 0800 suicide prevention numbers, and rather
a cultural empowerment of the individual to beat back the horrible
heard and its negative repression... that shadenfreud that lurks
in scotland that feeds on misery.

I think Scandinavian countries do have a higher-than-expected rate of depression and suicide, which has been attributed to the cold dark winters.

I also agree that 0800 numbers are not the answer.

In what way can the govt ecourage cultural empowerment?

....yes I think that could well be a factor. That is common in the US and unfortunately it can manifest itself in what can be referred to as "suicide by police". A person can't take it any more, brings a gun to work or school and starts shooting; they take out the people they perceive to be the cause of their problems and either kill themselves or are killed by the police.

Also in Sweden, I think a huge factor is pride...loss of face, similar to the Japanese culture, it's about the worst thing that could happen.
I see that trait galloping through my family; sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

It's been a long time since I've spent a whole winter in Sweden but the short days never bothered me....of course I was a lot younger. I wonder if as you get older you are more likely to be effected by SAD.

Unfortunately I don't think there is an easy or quick answer as to the cause of many suicides....

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

we don't have much in the way of suicide by cop. Our cops aren't routinely armed.

I have a weird theory, I think the change from manufacturing to service jobs doesn't help. When you are creating things it's much more satisfying than when you are just reorganising things etc. If you see what I mean. Obviously this is not the sole reason, but it may explain part of it.

Any thoughts?

Hi,

I think you have a valid point, I do believe people are happier when they are creating something....whether it's a piece of furniture or a splendid meal.

Life here in the states has become disposable....from fast food, to electronics that break and we pitch, to people....not many companies here feel for their employees like they did 50 years ago. People are disposable here, our old...our sick...our homeless....even those who have good jobs can find themselves unemployed next week.

The "suicide by cop" ... I was referring to the US only, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

All in all I think most of us would be happier if we just slowed down...I think one of the happiest periods was during the 50's....everyone was beginning to prosper, in general people appeared to be happier. Can't say I remember the 50's but listening to old stories and watching home movies from that time it just appears that in general it was a happier time.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

My mums from Shetland and while visiting there I kind of understood the high suicide and alcoholism rate there - fairly isolated and LONG dark winters where there's nothing to do except drink in a pub, the limited opportunities if you want to stay in Shetland add that to a fairly macho culture and I think you have the recipe for high suicides - Australia (where I live) also has really high suicide risks - particularly in the country areas, for much the sme reasons

I think that northern countries in general and maybe Scotland in particular tend to keep their feelings bottled up inside instead of emoting or talking things over with others, which would lead to a highter level of depression.

Or turning to drink as a way to deal with one's feelings, which then leads to even greater depression if it becomes a regular habit. I am sure there are numerous factors, but it seems to me that countries with high rates of alcoholism have higher rates of depression and suicide.

The answer, I believe, is multi-faceted, but a "keeping a stiff upper lip" cultural norm could have something to do with it.

That may be representative of a certain genetic disposition. I know that having lived away from Scotland for several years, I have felt a certain lightness of mood.

I've visited some distant relatives in Scotland twice, and the mood was quite festive. Of course, *I* knew that I was returning home after a week or so.