Subj: Ohio Court Challenge
Date: 12/9/2004 12:47:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: xxxxxxx
To: peoplesall@aol.com

I was hoping that you could give me an update as to when the Mr. Arnebeck will be filing the Ohio challenge.

Many Americans are eagerly awaiting this action and I would like to report it to my fellow forum people at the Democratic Underground, a national medium to discuss progressive democratic topics.

Thank you,

xxxxxx

Subj: Ohio Court Challenge
Date: 12/10/2004 1:01:12 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: peoplesall@aol.com
To: xxxxxxxx

xxxx,

The case will be filed at 9 am, Monday December 13th. Conyers is sending a letter requesting injunctive relief of the Ohio electors - ie that they either step aside or vote provisionally pending the outcome of the case. The case will be filed amid much media attention and should be a front page story in major newspapers across the country on Monday. It is now representing 40 Ohio citizens.

Mary White
National Office Coordinator
Alliance for Democracy

will there even be enough to stop anything at that point. He'd have to have a virtually watertight case, I hope he somehow comes up with it.

Which I described in an earlier thread.

My theory is that they wait till the last moment and the Repukes can't spin this issue.


This is HUGE!!!

but doesn't this announcement kinda give republicans all weekend to spin it on talk shows and such?

the trolls they read it all day ..thats what some do ..nothing else but read DU

Thanks for sharing your letter, sounds like great news!!!

Well, the Repukes have been ignoring this issue the whole time because they don't want to get caught red handed. They definitely aren't going to bring it up this weekend, in my opinion.

They Conyer's hearing gave this issue legitmacy, even if Ney(partisan asshole) called it a 'faux' hearing.

Having the challenge brought forth Monday is brilliant. They could have done it this Wednesday, but did not. You wanna know why? Because Kerry has a plan and it involves winning public support.

How is the media going to ignore this now if Ohio Electors can't cast their vote? lol. I mean, it will be front page news by default. Then the shit is going to really hit the fan!!!

It is a good day in Amerika :)

we can turn it back into America!! :hug:

you got that right..and I like your post
Do you really think Kerry is part of this next move???
I go back and fourth on what Kerry is up to.

I want to believe, then I am influenced by what i read here
with so many that think he is not going to come out any time soon

I keep an open mind and look for signs of hope......this is a very good one

If they do, then they are pre-emptively making it a story.

I expect that they will be playing up the 2 cases of fraud the FBI has actually investigated, to make it look like 'well both sides do it, so it's ok'.

Or are you being sarcastic? :)

It broke earlier today, apparently there have been Arrests. Both cases involve Dems. I'll look for the link to the thread in the breaking news section later tonite, or some kind sould could do it for me (hint).

BTW, I don't care what your allegiance is, if you commit election fraud you should be hauled away in leg irons. I suspect that the FBI is performing selective investigations.

I swear I've seen 2 recent reports of Dems being arrested for election problems, not the guy who tried to deliver the letter to Blackwell.

but I think the contest portion of our show had to come after the certification. Remember that Kathy B. only certified on Monday, and Arnebeck has a legally allowed time window to file. I am sure he's watching the clock.

Personally, I don't care if it's filed at 11:59 p.m. on the last possible day. It'd better be airtight. The fact that Conyers is sticking his name on the request boosts my spirits. At least, it seems, there is some real chance that this could go somewhere.

Also, how is the SC Justice of Ohio chosen? Or, are they assigned by the Court? The make-up is 5-2 Repug, but the Chief Justice (R) actually seems sane (I've done some reading up on him). How AWESOME would it be if it were a Dem Justice? Actually, as I type this, I'd almost rather see it be a Repug -- more credibility.

just watch :puke: :wtf:

filed this today.

I think the public is clueless to any of this anyway
and still will be

Everyone is expecting Bush to be declared the winner officially, and if things go well with the lawsuit, they won't be able to declare him anything. People will start to wonder what's going on.

First, I think it's better to wait until Monday instead of friday (no way to kill a story better than to publish it friday afternoon). Second, I'm trying to determine if there is a GOOD reason to time the complaint on Dec. 13. According to Ohio Civil Procedure Rule 12, the defendants' response (be it a motion or an answer) is due 28 days after the complaint is filed. That puts responses due Monday, January 10, 2005. Does this day have any significance in the electoral scheme of things?

If not, then Arnebeck's statements about not caring whether the outcome of this election is affected or not are true.

On edit: Is this to be filed in state or fed court? In fed court, responses (answers, motions) are generally due in 20 days, which puts us at Monday, Jan 3rd..... HMMM....

as I understand it. So their Rules of Practice would apply. Rule X Section 5 covers original actions, and provides 21 days for answers and motions to dismiss. http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/Rules/practice/ has all the rules.

I agree with you on waiting til Mon. It also puts more pressure on Rs to expend time and energy anticipating *possible* arguments over the weekend, rather than researching responses to what arguments are actually raised. Bigger headlines with "Expected Certification Will Not Occur" -- apparently will be addressed to one Justice, I imagine because they're basically asking for a preliminary injunction.

Big Point there -- one justice, Ohio justices are ELECTED. Moyer probably can't hear it (on prelim or on the merits) because of recent reelection and his race provides most of the comparison numbers. Pfieffer is open to question since he ran unopposed (tells you something when the Rs don't oppose a SCt candidate), but he wrote a weekly newsletter on the subject of how smoothly the election ran and what a relief that it wasn't going through the courts, so there's an additional basis for recusal if Arnebeck wants one.

How many of the remainder do you think are willing to go out on Blackwell's limb all on their lonesome? (and there are a couple Dems - Resnick is a respected and honorable justice, but was also the subject of the all-out attack campaign Arnebeck was referring to, but I don't think that would require her recusal.)

Either way, they know it will be appealed to the whole panel. But by denying the prelim injunction pending investigation and possible mandamus orders to Blackwell, any justice would sign their political death warrant in OH. (Although one could argue potential rewards from the wh cabal - which I am not implying about that bench, re: federal appointment, etc., the backlash for confirmation would be big, it would have had to be set up in advance for quid-pro-quo, and assignment not certain, too much focus now to allow for back-door dealings.)

You're giving me more and more hope.

So the summary of your post says most likely that: Yes, the injunction will happen and Ohio's Electors will not necessarily count come Jan.6 if the recount proves Kerry won.

Is this an accurate recap?

How actually, physically, do the electors vote on Monday?

The case will be filed amid much media attention and should be a front page story in major newspapers across the country on Monday.

YEAH! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Jeez, now I'm gonna be ALL EXCITED ALL FREAKIN WEEKEND!

Do I have this right?
Arnebeck is filing a suit based on information he has that votes were actually switched from the Kerry column to the Bush column, and Conyers is asking the electors to wait until the case is settled.
Is that the link between the two? Or is Conyers more actively involved in the suit itself?

And do I have the essence of Arnebeck's case right, or was it about the distribution of voting machines so the heavily Democratic districts didn't get enough? (If there isn't a suit about that, there should be.)
And does anybody know why the case will be filed more than a week after it was originally supposed to be? I assume it's because he's getting more and more and more and more hard evidence, so I'm not complaining. I'm just hoping that's the reason.

Sorry to have to ask but I just can't keep track of everything and I was thinking that this thread would be a good place for someone who's up on this to clarify things for those of us who aren't.

Subject: Have you heard the Arnebeck interview on Pacifica radio?
Message:

http://www.pacifica.org / for audio
A brief interview (2:38) from a press conference interview with Cliff Arnebeck. Cliff explains his theory regarding the method(s) that were used to rig the Ohio election.

Excerpt: "The only logical explanation is that there was a movement of some 65,000 votes or so that were cast for Kerry into the Bush column which created a margin that is approximately the total margin by which Bush was reported to have won Ohio. Our current view of the evidence is that this is where the fix occurred. There were a variety of other problems that occurred in the election....Our present feeling is that while this (minority voter suppression) is a serous conspiracy to violate the civil rights of a protected class of voters, namely those of the black race , that this is not where the real fix occurred. This is something we will discuss in the lawsuit but we intend to hone in very aggressively in full tilt litigation on what we believe is the fraud that occurred in the southern part of the state with the shift of the votes..."

Welcome to DU! :hi:

but I'm really dissappointed that only 40 are being represented. I know it was a really short time to do footwork, and with almost -0- MSM coverage, they are lucky to have those 40 but my day just got a little more gray :(

40 or 40,000 makes no difference.

I wondered what he hoped to accomplish. Now, it's more clear.

If they step aside, it doesn't change the outcome.

Does the left have any other tricks up its sleeves if they force Ohio electors to step aside?

I wasn't born in 1960. :silly: And I don't know my history as well as I could.

In 1960, Kennedy disputed Hawaii's official close results, and they had a recount. Since they didn't have enough time to finish the recount before the electoral college met, Ohio sent two sets of provisional electors, one set to vote for each Kennedy and Nixon.

As I recall, they finished the recount circa December 28, and the results flipped to Kennedy. When the Senate counted the electoral votes in January, they accepted the Kennedy votes and rejected the Nixon votes.

At least that's how I understand it. I wasn't born then either. :) If anyone knows different, correct me.

remember. Nixon lost a presidential race before, didn't he? Is this the one everyone's talking about? Or, am I way off?

In another thread, I had suggested Medal of Honor holder, Senator Daniel K. Inouye as a possible senator to challenge the electoral vote this time. And now we see that he was involved in the 1960 election as a congressman! No substitute for experience I always say!

It would be great if the whole country could flip.

I don't know many details, but someone kept posting an article from slate a couple weeks ago about it. I'll see if I can find it.

On edit: here's an article about the 1960 election that has been posted a few times (haven't read it all yet)
http://slate.msn.com/id/91350

"A recount did wind up changing the winner in one state: Hawaii. On Dec. 28, a circuit court judge ruled that the state—originally called Kennedy's but awarded to Nixon after auditing errors emerged—belonged to Kennedy after all. Nixon's net gain: -3 electoral votes.

The GOP's failure to prove fraud doesn't mean, of course, that the election was clean. That question remains unsolved and unsolvable. But what's typically left out of the legend is that multiple election boards saw no reason to overturn the results. Neither did state or federal judges. Neither did an Illinois special prosecutor in 1961. And neither have academic inquiries into the Illinois case (both a 1961 study by three University of Chicago professors and more recent research by political scientist Edmund Kallina concluded that whatever fraud existed wasn't substantial enough to alter the election)."

LOL, I have no idea what he's talking about.

Why is he waiting until Monday? Isn't that when the Ohio electors meet?

the outcome of the case is settled.

Conyers is sending a letter requesting injunctive relief of the Ohio electors - ie that they either step aside or vote provisionally pending the outcome of the case.


Don't quote me on this, but this would keep them from being able to vote until the case is tried. So, in essence, this would stop them from casting their votes for the Chimp.

Surely someone has thought of that possibility. I'd rather see the suit brought at 5 pm today.

stuff. Did you ever know the government to start doing things before 9:00 a.m.?

But, seriously, I don't know what would happen.

. . . says they vote at noon.

have a separate meeting and vote for Kerry, thus setting up the scenario the poster above just explained in Hawaii in 1960.

Arneback is filing an injunction to stop them from voting, which I think the lawsuit includes that injunction.

Conyers is sending a letter requesting injunctive relief of the Ohio electors



But, I'm not very good at understanding legal aspects of things. Maybe some other DUers can explain better than me.

GAME ON !

Don't ever want to spend another 24hrs like the last 24hrs.
I was staring down destiny's gunbarrel.
As grumpy as Grouch all day today.
Twitching noticably.
And refreshing DU every 2 mins.
Phew.

Nice move though.
Nice coincident timing on Monday.
Sort of counterpointing the official electors.

PLUS
Gives us the weekend to roll out a BIG publicity drive.
Ideas? Promo Groups?

keep me posted please
fintan at breakfornews.com

Fintan Dunne, Editor
http://www.BreakForNews.com

:dem:

Excellent strategy!

Does this coinside with Kerry's trip to the Mideast? If so wouldn't that be perfect...all hell breaks loose on the OH electoral front, Rethug attack dogs ask where is Kerry!...oh, he's in Iraq looking presidental...

Kerry announced yesterday that he will be visiting troops in Iraq (but I think on Jan. 20).

Please all you realists let me know if I'm getting carried away here (it's fine to knock some sense into me) or if this filing on Monday points to a broader Kerry strategy that has been hidden until now.

And in DU yesterday mentioned that Kerry and Arnebeck have been friends for 20 years!

I hope blind optimism isn't getting the best of me as well.

Seems strange that he would wait until Jan. 20 to visit Iraq...isn't that after thier supposed election? One would think that most diplomats would be visiting beforehand.

Doesn't say exactly when.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/344/wash/Kerry_to_visit_Iraq_Middle_Eas:.shtml

But:

In addition to his Iraq trip, Kerry will take time during the holidays to host events in Massachusetts and Iowa in which he will thank his campaign supporters. He travels to Iowa on Friday.

Looks like is now planning to get some media exposure again. Will these campaign 'Thank-you' events turn into campaign election fraud support?

and hope and pray.

Man, it's going to be hard to get any sleep this weekend.

....interesting day for Senator Kerry to be visiting Iraq, hmmm?

Peace.

"When Did Bush Know?"

An Ohio court will never agree to injunctive relief of the Ohio electors.

he seems to be chomping at the bit to get to court!! It's going to be a marvelous weekend!

PS: My hubbie just told me "I think you've been spending too much time on the computer". I've been telling him.....just a few more days.....and this whole thing is going to break open......for the past month and a half!! Heeeeeee!

I have a husband that thinks I'm obsessed! I work from home n the computer, but for the past month have got little done!!!

Checking for election fraud news is the only reason I've found to stay out of the depths of dispair over the future of America.

for an acupuncture school!

I've been waiting for this since July 2003, when the Diebold code was first independently analyzed and found, um, wanting.

The big break has ALWAYS been "just around the corner."

Sigh.

The hubby just wants me to get off the computer so he can have his wife back. (I am on DU and dKos all the time at night and my entire weekends since a few weeks before the election). He also doesn't understand how I can hold on to hope.

back. Yet she is supportive at the same time.

I am obsessed with this story. Keep telling him the same thing, it's going to break any day now. He hopes it will too, because he hates * and he'd like to see more of me.

take on the Arnebeck suit...

I am soooo excited. What has he found? What do the 40 witnesses have to say?

I can barely stand it!

So it seems like we're all going to get divorced.
Hubby is sad becaue he used to clog up the computer playing Ghost Recon. Now, since he knows we're fighting for truth, justice and the American Way, he's bummed, but very understanding. If we had two computers, we'd never talk. :)

I keep saying, "It's coming. Give it time."

People at work are asking me too as I'm the "expert" now in election fraud. :)

to calm his nerves! Whatever that is, I hope he patents it!

Now we're talking!

Inquiring minds want to know...

Any Minutemen out there that know what Cam's been up to lately?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x138425#138655

amazing grace, how sweet.....

did not mention the lawsuit being filed, but said they are going to blow this thing wide open?

I wonder why AfD would email me to spread the word, but Arnebeck himself not mention it on AAR? Is there some type of covert media operation going on here so that the Repukes won't be in the loop like us here at DU?

I thought for sure he would mention the filing of the Ohio lawsuit.

:kick:

that they were going to file but would not share the details...
was I hearing things?:shrug:

I listened again to the archives .....
check it out he did defiantly mention there filing on monday
http://www.randirhodesarchives.com/
Fri, Dec 10, 2004   
  2nd Half  

What it is 'aint exactly clear
But we sense victory is near.

the chance to exit gracefully . If bush decides to fight , they`ll break out the evidence they have had since 200-2002-2004

Bush can't do ANYTHING gracefully, especially resign. No, no, no. He's more likely to get himself re-assigned -- as an official emperor, not a mere elected public 'servant -- and surround himself with special riot-gear-covered storm troopers -- than to resign and let democracy resume.

(Pretending for a moment that it ever existed..)

I got a picture in my head of *, surrounded by his riot-gear-covered storm troopers, and than hundreds of thousands of us in the streets waving signs in his face "Yeah, where's your MANDATE nowwwww Biatch!!!

And then at the heat of the tension, OUR beloved armed services come in that can't stand him and take him into custody, slowly parading him past as all as we continue to scream 'Where's that MANDATE NOW BUSH!!

I have the same vision every day. I believe that you are correct except that Dubya takes all of his orders from Rove so until KKKarl tells him to worry, he'll continue trying to stock his second-term cabinet with more Vulcans than an episode of "Star Trek: Enterprise."
As a friend who voted for Dubya in 2004 recently said to me when I told him how much fraud evidence has been amassed, "Well, if they pull it off and prove that Kerry actually won, they'll need a crowbar to get George out of the White House." I fear that he's right, although we have plenty of military and Secret Service who HATE *!

This is great news, they are doing it, really doing it.
My heart is beating so hard, they are following their words
with the actions they spoke of on Wednesday. Monday will be
a great day American History, I am so happy. I will march tomorrow
with my head held high in front of the White House with my sign
shining in the bright sun filled sky. I can not wait for noon to
come, I am so excited about it all. This is so Awesome !!!!

...already gamed this. His spies are certainly all over the place. Expect a major attack Monday...domestic warning, or in Iraq, or both. Or a major FBI bust of some democrats. It will not be an uneventful day. It's certainly no time for us to get cocky celebrating. We've already lost three branches of government and the media.

Positive energy, everyone. It's coming. It's all going to start happening on Monday.

Keep hope alive. No Surrender. Peace.

:kick:

Huh. Check this out. Just a few days before the election.....

Arnebeck is co-chair of the Alliance for Democracy. This was on their website.

AfD Challenges Corporate Gifts in Ohio Supreme Court Races

Cautious with words and donors, group aims to elect GOP justices

Friday, October 29, 2004

Ted Wendling

Plain Dealer Bureau
http://www.thealliancefordemocracy.org/html/eng/2152-AA.shtml

Columbus - The Zurich American Insurance Co. wants you to call Republican Ohio Supreme Court Justice Terrence O'Donnell and GOP Judge Judith Lanzinger to thank them.

The subsidiary of the Swiss behemoth Zurich Financial Services also wants you to do something else for O'Donnell and Lanzinger. It just can't say explicitly what it is because the company communicates to voters through Citizens for a Strong Ohio, a group prevented by law from advocating the election or defeat of candidates. So, just in case your grasp of toe-on-the-line politics is as tenuous as a hanging chad, remember that Tuesday (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) is Election Day.

Seeking a "business-friendly" Supreme Court, Zurich American this fall did what other corporate "citizens" have been doing in Ohio for years. It gave $50,000 to Citizens for a Strong Ohio to help the Ohio Chamber of Commerce-sponsored "issue advocacy" group wage a multimillion-dollar campaign on behalf of O'Donnell and Lanzinger. In doing so, the campaign has scrupulously avoided using the two "magic words" that would rouse elections regulators - "elect" and "defeat." Instead, its TV and radio ads urge voters to call and thank the two conservative judges for their service.

Information released by the chamber and Citizens for a Strong Ohio, or CSO, shows that Zurich American and other corporations gave more than $1.2 million to CSO between Sept. 10 and Oct. 21. That's $300,000 more than O'Donnell's and Lanzinger's opponents, judges William O'Neill and Nancy Fuerst, raised combined in the last year from all donors. MORE

Free Republic forums that are reading this,

HI!

Ya know Air force Mom and Dimi are part of our infiltration plot from DU to take over your Free Republic site!

LOL

better watch out!

it and see how they are approaching it.

I don't think ANYBODY outside Arnebeck's closest circle is going to know a thing until Monday a.m.

It isn't like anything in the lawsuit is going to be either a big surprise or something that is going to quickly pen the "perps" as you put it. I can wait till Monday.

TC

I'm sure Arnebeck wants all the attention on the evidence he's going to show, and not on a replanned response from Blackwell or anyone else.