Madsen: Another article coming. Post some questions to ex feedback w/ him

Madsen wrote me today:
JamBoi wrote:
" Will we be getting another article soon?

yes, at least one more

wayne"

Okay I just thought it'd be useful if we use this thread to post and compile a succinct list of questions for Madsen. Please keep them constructive, short sincere and polite. Thanks.

stay out of this because I don't know exactly what to believe anymore but if there is a chance to get a question to the source, I'll take the opportunity.

Where are we/you going with this? Is this going to prosecutors? Is this going to people who have the authority to challenge electors?

and, most importantly, What do you expect or hope to come of it?

on edit: thanks Jamboi!

And if he is - are they helping?

(I know ridiculous question - but it's worth a shot)

On Edit: And thanks Jamboi for keeping us updated! :hi:

being a former NSA agent himself, is he in contact with agents at the NSA?

My understanding is that these agencies have the ability to decrypt any of the standard encryption methods used on the internet ... or the banking network??

but I'd like to see some technical information from his sources; what type of exploits were used, some sourcecode or binaries if available, etc.

thanks jamboi

The website commongroundcommonsense has a thread regarding Opus Dei and votergate. I am seeing all kinds of penetration of our CIA and intelligence agencies with Knights of Malta, and by extension, Opus Dei...This is hardly new information. My questions arise with a posting mentioning Covenant House in Kenner, Louisiana, and a Martin Gutierrez

The post reads as follows:

""A couple of days ago Activisms started a thread about Alan Guttierez, a programmer for Cybernet and the author of a database manipulation program called Momento, which might have been used as a basis to manipulate the vote tabulators nationwide.

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/ind...?showtopic=8019

While doing some research into his background, I ran into an image of a building in New Orleans at 1000 N Ramparts that had beed used as a Communty Center until the owners put it up for sale.
The owners turned out to be an organization called Covenant House:
http://www.covenanthouse.org/
On their page is a link to their house in New Orleans:
http://www.covenanthouse.org/about_pc_no20...s-picayune.html
I especially like the part about their "businesses" and how they pay their "workers" a $50. per week stipend. I guess minimum wage doesn't apply to NPO's. I guess i'm digressing here but if you compare this operation with Baypoint Schools, you will see the point.
For more information on the background of Covenant House:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=covenant...ouri.edu&rnum=1
It reads like a who's Who of Opus Dei and other Right-Wing players.

It turns out that Covenant House is an arm of Opus Dei. And who is the director of Opus Dei in New Orleans?:

Hispanic Apostolate Archdiocese of New Orleans

Martín Gutierrez, Executive Director
4309 Williams Blvd.
Kenner, LA 70065
504/464-5478
FAX: 504/486-3985
E-mail: hispanicapostolate@archdiocese-no.org
A division of the Archdiocese of New Orleans, the Hispanic Apostolate is dedicated to helping immigrants in the New Orleans metropolitan area integrate into US society and lead productive and independent lives. They provide employment and educational programs, emergency assistance, and immigration and pastoral services. Their events include seminars and talks on diverse topics of importance to the community, health fairs, fundraising dinners, dances, and auctions, and tutoring services at the Redwood Family Educational Center.""

Now we have info on a Clint Curtis programmer with YEI (Yang Enterprises Inc) in FL doing essentiallly the same thing for Rep Tom Feeny of FL. Also mentioned in the DU postings are items about Dwayne Rapp and Triad Government Information Inc of Xenia OH.

From the Washington Post we learn that Opus Dei member Sen Sam Brownback used Triad Management Services (pres. Carolyn Malenick and consultant Carlos Rodriguez, finance dir Meredith O'Rourke, lawyer Mark Braden are mentioned).

The question we need to answer is: is Triad Management Services of Rockville MD in any way connected to Triad Government Information Inc of Xenia OH ? Are there any connections with anyone mentioned in these firms ? Dwayne Rapp and Carolyn Malenick et al ?

What I'm getting at here is Could our intelligence community be doing a domestic operation related to votergate, much as they have affected voting in foreign countries (and don't be naive, the CIA does try to affect foreign elections--Australia's Geoff Whitlam ring a bell, "Falcon and The Snowman" remember ?).

Here's a link to that thread:
http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/index.php?showtopic=8349

For some reason the original thread regarding Alan Guttierez has disappeared, which included information regarding Alan's information disappearing from the internet and using google's cached webpages to find his WHOIS information and role as the system administrator for Cybernet (no wonder his info disappeared). Consequently, Martin's information has also recently been erased from the net.

Although I am EXTREMELY wary of the direction this line of investigation is heading (hardcore conspiracy loon stuff), I am almost convinced something sinsister is at work because of the fact that as people dig up info in this line of investigation, that info disappears off the internet not days later. Additionally, the Opus Dei roster includes many prominant neo-cons and conservative corporate leaders, which may turn up some leads to investigate. I'm not saying Opus Dei itself is involved in votergate or not, but it may provide a link between those who are involved.

Kingofthejungle

In looking through the POSSIBILITY of connections with rightwingnuts (and ties to Opus Dei, Knights of Malta, etc) we find that our very own CIA occassionally messed with foreign elections. Nowadays, with a Knights of Malta-heavy CIA / rightwing tilted, it is highly likely that they would want to mess with a domestic election. Just look at the DoD's reasoning for dropping the internet voting project they had...it was unsecure ! http://taliesin.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/19/205921/61

Jimmy Carter is saying today that the UN couldn't certify this election in the USA. That tells me a lot. Something is rotten in Denmark and we'd better fix it ASAP.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Any familial relationship?

I wonder if Madsen has any information about CIA involvement??

N/T

This article may provide the key for funding of illicit campaign money possibly used to pay for the Bush followers if they rigged this election...The money comes in from overseas, MANY members of Congress are already compromised by their accepting this kind of money (sourced via CIA activities, guess the sources).

This precompromised Congress isn't about to investigate itself ! See "All the President's Men" footnote re 'chilean investors' and the Mexican bank. This was Chilean CIA money coming back to Nixon ! They never went after the money in Watergate. Kriky, Hillary found this out while working on the Watergate investigation staff. That's how Bill got the Jackson Stephens/BCCI/WorthenBank 'hot cash injection' for the 1992 campaign, and Bush was already getting his'n from similar sources you can bet. (see Rachel Ehrenfeld's "Evil Money").

Does that negate the idea of individual technicians being paid for fixing the numbers? Is he still looking for "foreign technicians?"

Also:

There was a thread on here last night about Karl Rove keeping his own set of numbers that were different from those released to the public. He claimed that bush had won OH and FL, despite the numbers being very close, and earlier media claims that they were trending towards Kerry.

I guess what I'm asking is: Was this fixing of the numbers done by multiple persons, or just a few with connections to the central tabulators?

"Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.

He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them.

And when the TV networks gave either Ohio or Nevada to Mr Bush but not both - which would have led him to be declared as the winner - Mr Rove was one of the president's aides who got on the phone to news chiefs to try to pressure them to change their minds.

But he is far more than the bully or evil genius as he is often portrayed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3987237.stm

GWB and Rove. Exit polls weren't good for the US (which showed Kerry winning with OH and FL and 311 electoral votes per Zogby Nov 2nd) but exit polls are what established the voter fraud there...

What's wrong with this picture ?

and to do that you would want an 'off the books' operation to do it. The Isle of Man, Guernsey Islands, Netherlands Antillies etc are all well known money-laundries with banking/corporate privacy laws. Very untraceable.

Isle of Man is mentioned by Madsen and Five Star, I believe. One technique is called a 'Dutch Sandwich' where the clean money goes to a clean bank office somewhere, the dirty money goes to the branch of the clean bank. So far so good. The dirty money is given as a deposit at the branch office and the now 'clean' money is loaned out by wire transfer. As long as the banks don't disclose sources, company names, etc., no one gets caught.

US and world check clearing capability out of NY CHIPS see CHIPS Clearing House Interbank Payments System http://www.imolin.org/imolin/finhaeng.html
would detect 'funny business', unless the CHIPS were down, no pun intended !

1. Does he believe that?

2. "Sources near the Pope" is .....?

3. How can we take him as credible when he writes something like that?

I thought he was on the up and up, but the more Madsen I read, the more I think he should take up writing novels.

bad guy, I don't think he's going to help himself with that line of thought.

"Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy"
George Monbiot
Tuesday April 20, 2004
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4905411-103677,00.html

as compared to


"Christian Zionism, Evangelicals and Israel", by Gary M. Burge, Ph.D.
http://www.hcef.org/hcef/index.cfm/ID/159
mentions Acts 7 and a non-location-based Christianity and which shows that a Third Temple is only important if you WANT the antichrist to sit in it soon....see
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week319/cover.html

Excuse me, but the pope believes he has a personal relationship with the Virgin Mary - where she passes messages to him. He takes all sorts of stuff seriously that's just as whacky as the story of the Antichrist. If you grant for a moment that he does believe the prophecy of the Antichrist's coming, and then you look for someone who is a world leader who pretends to be a Christian, but isn't, quite, and then you look at the pope's strong condemnation of our invasion of Iraq as not being a "just war" according to Church doctrine ... I mean, who the heck _else_ do you put forward as "might be the Antichrist" who comes close enough to fulfilling the criteria to be on the pope's radar screen right now?

Personally, I don't believe in the Antichrist. But if I did, and I thought 2000 years past Christ might be when he should show up, I'd be looking real carefully at Bush as "might be the Antichrist." Otherwise, if I were pope, I'd be shirking my job. And I can tell you that elsewhere on the Net I've been conversing with believing Christians of the born again persuasion who are largely confident that Bush _is_ the Antichrist. The odd thing is, there's something comforting in their confidence....

Has anyone insinuated his life may be in danger? Has he perceived any threat to his life? I know his professional life is being threatened.

Is the investigation complete? Also, does he have anymore evidence?

run he was talking about. I'll certainly ask though.

Mike Ruppert's book "Crossing the Rubicon" p. 159 shows that all intelligence and most military computer operating systems are Unix or Macintosh, due to obvious vulnerabilities of Windows. In his article on Clint Curtis, Madsen says that Yang Enterprises "wanted" the Visual Basic 5 program to be portable to Unix based systems.

This is all computer geek stuff to me but it stands to reason that there is a possiblilty that intelligence agency "spooks" who had no problems in the past in messing with foreign countries elections (see movie "Falcon and the Snowman" where the kid comes across what we were doing in Australia with Geoff Whitlam's election "While reading the messages, Boyce is shocked to learn that the CIA is involved in fixing Australian elections" http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=16619)
...as Agents for Bush
(see Covert Action Quarterly Bob Callahan, "Agents for Bush," Covert Action Information Bulletin no. 33 (Winter 1990), pp. 5-7. See also, Webster Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin, George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (Washington, DC: EIR, 1992), chapter 16. Full text available online at www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm)
could have wanted to assure themselves of a Bush second term, no matter what. In the old days GHWBush had Ray Cline organize an Agents for Bush group:

"During 1979 it was Ray Cline who had gone virtually public with a loose and informal but highly effective campaign network mainly composed of former intelligence officers. Cline had been the CIA Station Chief in Taiwan from 1958 to 1962. He had been Deputy Director of Central Intelligence from 1962 to 1966, and had then gone on to direct the intelligence gathering operation at the State Department. Cline became a de facto White House official during the first Bush Administration, and wrote the White House boiler plate entitled "National Security Strategy of the United States" under which the Gulf war was carried out.

Cline later said that his approach to Bush's 1979-80 primary campaign was to "organize something like one of my old CIA staffs." "I found there was a tremendous constituency for the CIA when everyone in Washington was still urinating all over it," commented Cline to the Washington Post of March 1, 1980. "It's panned out almost too good to be true. The country is waking up just in time for George's candidacy."

Nowadays they might as well still be actively campaigning INSIDE the CIA and NSA, Pentagon DIA, etc. etc., since they know they get more financial backing from Republicans who are more prone to start wars, just look at the current Bush administration's record !

How NSA Access was built into Windows http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/5/5263/1.html

""During the CIA's formative years, Protestants predominated...... Somehow, however, Catholics wrested control of the CIA's covert-action section. It was no coincidence that some of the agency's more grandiose operations were in Catholic countries of Latin America and the Catholic regime of South Vietnam.11"" from
http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/amdemcia.html

With Opus Dei, see the Sen Sam Brownback article in Washington Post mentioning Triad Management Services of Rockville MD, Carolyn Malenick president, and the connections will probably lead to further rightwingnuts of similar religious persuasions...possibly Knights of Malta who have already taken control of the higher reaches of the CIA's bureaucracy.

This article in the Atlantic from Dec 1976 "Searching for the Real Nixon Scandal" got closer to the heart of Watergate than any other article, book, etc...

"She argues that the Watergate trial was itself a cover-up of more monstrous acts of treason, keeping U.S. troops in Vietnam in exchange for money from the South Vietnamese government. And while her theory was surely shocking when first published in 1976, it now reads like a shot in the dark" from http://www.bookfinder.us/review1/031227520X.html and also at

"Ignored by the news media at the time, the novelist Renata Adler, a friend and adviser of John Doar, special counsel and head of the House Judiciary Committee's impeachment inquiry staff, raised the possibility in a December 1976 essay in the Atlantic magazine that the grounds for impeachment of Nixon may have been closer to "Treason Bribery" than "high Crimes and Misdemeanors"
In her essay, "Searching For the Real Nixon Scandal: A last Reference," Adler examined the circumstances of the impeachment inquiry with facts later exposed by the 1976 Senate Select Committee on spy activities headed by Sen. Frank Church" from from
http://www.populist.com/5.97.watergate.html

Of note also: "Evil Money" by Rachel Ehrenfeld, page 180 of Chapter 4, about BCCI, shows that the money into US politics from Jackson Stephens, Worthen Bank, and George Bush seems to have originated with BCCI via Swiss accounts. The money was truly bi-partisan, thus no real effort to investigate. If Sen Kerry's BCCI investigation was prevented from thoroughly looking into BCCI's CIA et al intelligence operations due to classification of operations...well, that explains a lot. Let's give some immunity from prosecution and get to the bottom of our phony election systems.

The world's flagship Democracy DEMANDS IT. We're still following the money...see Wayne Madsen's latest at http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120604Madsen/120604madsen.html

It's all in the money ! BTW, check out "All the President's Men" in that little noted footnote regarding "Chilean investors"...it's CIA money from Chile coming back through Mexico hint hint !

"Dark Alliance" author Gary Webb's apparent suicide the other day in Sacramento CA smells fishy ... if you follow the money as Renata Adler's article presupposes.

Webb was on to the corruption factor in our democracy and the CIA's use of drugs to finance 'whateveritwants'.

Even if it was a real suicide, the timing was perfect Gary !

Does Madsen see Curtis's recent developments with Feeney as "a piece of the bigger picture" he is covering? And if so, how is Curtis tying into the whole picture of not only FL, but CA, OH, TX, to name a few states mentioned about padding the votes?

Or is Curtis's fraud different from what Madsen is really covering?

he reported to authorities...dates please... date of event reported to date of report.

Question #2: If you're not ready to present solid evidence, then isn't it too soon to be publishing stories?

Question #3: Why is it when you throw a story out, we're supposed to believe you with no solid evidence presented to the public... and when the story ends up going Poof, we're STILL supposed to believe you?

I don't doubt you're better at sorting sources than must of us here. But how do you answer this question? I think the question comes from a sense that Rove et al have perfected the art of disinformation and diversion.

I think false parallels are being applied here. It may true that "Turdblossom" Karl Rove managed to squelch the on-going questions about the Bushitler's AWOL past by planting some phony documents, and managed to squelch the on-going questions about Bushitler's cocaine use by setting up Hatfield, but the key thing to note is that THESE WERE ON-GOING ISSUES THAT WERE OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

Looking at Madsen's claims, or for that matter Clint Curtis', we should recognize that THEY ARE BREAKING ENTIRELY NEW GROUND.

To make this argument clear, assume that a young man just filed an affidavit that claimed that as a child he was the victim of rape and sodomy by George Walker Bushitler, who was out of his freaking mind on alchohol and drugs (seems somewhat plausible to me..). There is no way that Turdblossom would plant a story like this to discredit others, because even after it was shot down, some of the public would remain convinced that something was wrong, and that "where there is smoke, there is fire".

For this reason, I think the accusations by Madsen and Curtis are hurting Bushitler, and I think the more dirt and slime that is thrown at him, the better. For the truth of the matter is that Bushitler is guilty of causing numerous instances of rape and sodomy of innocent Iraqis, and massive counts of cold blooded murder.

Dont' be shy - pile it on.

I don't like the assumptions in the question either. They surprise me, but I know they're out there. I've seen them expressed at DU. I think people regard Rove as SO clever, he could even set up Madsen. Why, when it seems like a just-breaking story? Because Rove certainly knew that Repubs have been hacking elections, and that sooner or later someone would go after them about it. So, as usual, get WAY ahead of the story and get disinformation out.

As I say, I think it's a crock. And I think it'd be fun - and good - to see how Wayne would answer the assumption, not least because it may help to pop this bubble some people seem to have that Rove is absolutely invincible. It'd be VERY good for folks to know that there are people in this world who have absolutely no fear of the BuchCo.

I think there are many in the intelligence community who've had enough of Bushco and 'adventures in the Middle East' and elsewhere, thank you very much.

Never taking responsibility and leaving the company to clean up the mess for stovepiped ops that leave egg on everyone's face isn't how you run an airline.

The ultimate diversion is when we don't believe anything that's true because it all seems to be of Rovian manufacture, and we don't trust any of our own circle because they all seem to be Rovian plants.

Now compare: Isn't this the same level of paranoia shown by Bush when he wouldn't allow anyone with a dissenting view near him while he was campaigning. Could it be his paranoia is such because he as for so long been worked over by Rove? Is he not just a puppet, but a psychologically crippled one?

In any case, if we start saying of all evidence that we can't believe it because it might be a Rove plant, then precisely because we have come to that attitude, Rove has totally triumphed.

Which is stupid, because some of us inevitably are smarted than he is, and some of the information out there inevitably is rooted in the real, and not just manufactured lies.

From: Madsen
Subject: Re: Kudos to you from Air America Founder
To: jamboi
jamboi writes:
"The founder of Air America was just on Mike Malloy and he said,

That his next project is to create/fund a group of TRUE Investigative
journalists that don't have to worry about losing their jobs like those in Corporate owned media.... great idea! He even mentioned the voter fraud, and said that we need real reporters on the ground to investigate like a Madsen or Greg Palast type."

sorry I've been underground for a while...this investigation has brought me (JamBoi edited) a bunch of worrisome GOP/Christian/fundie rich people who were likely running Mr. Feeney in FL. I may be out of touch for a few days but what I can say is that the people in charge of the USA right now are extreme wackos who are bent on the End Times and an extinction level event. I covered Rwanda genocide and Middle East terrorism but never encountered anything as crazy as these people.

wayne

"...the people in charge of the USA right now are extreme wackos who are bent on the End Times and an extinction level event"

I believe this has been confirmed by some in the MSM.

Check out Gary Burge's article "Christian Zionism, Evangelicals and Israel", at http://www.hcef.org/hcef/index.cfm/ID/159

Also check out the attempts to assure a Third Temple (on top of the 'Temple Mount' site already occupied by the Al Aqsa Mosque). These guys really do want to set off Armageddon in order to make sure there is a Third Temple in place where the antichrist is to sit in the last days...

Grace Halsell has written about this 'dispensationalism' in her book "Forcing God's Hand" also. She was an LBJ speechwriter who got turned off by this brand of Christianity.

Furthermore, PBS's website shows that these people are seriously setting up, with liturgical implements and instruments and even the 'red heifer', to reinstitute the Third Temple sacrificial system.

This is why, and I don't mean to sound 'tinfoil hat' material here, that interest in the Ark of the Covenant and the Knights Templar are of interest in the final analysis of this strange situation: The KT as shown in Graham Hancock's book "The Sign and The Seal" have located the Ark of the Covenant, which is a requirement if a Third Temple is to be built (in order to house the Ark as it was in the past).


But, as Burge's article points out, God doesn't want a location-based religion...and the real temples are people's own bodies !

(St. Paul asked in 1 Corinthians: “Don’t you know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” and “Don’t you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God?” In 2 Corinthians he comes right out and says it plainly: “We are a temple of the living God; even as God said, ‘I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.’”

The disciple John hints at this when he recounts in his gospel an event when Jesus was in the great temple in Jerusalem and was asked to show the people a sign. “Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ The people at the temple said, ‘Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?’ But he spoke of the temple of his body.”)

Which is why this is soooo strange. Tim LaHaye "Left Behind" afficionados are encouraging actually a speed up of the antichrist's arrival. They either don't care about anyone else or feel the rapture absolves them of much responsibility.

The political implications of fomenting turmoil in the Middle East may also be something these types derive reward from: "Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power: US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy" by George Monbiot, Tuesday April 20, 2004 The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4905411-103677,00.html

"In the United States, several million people have succumbed to an extraordinary delusion. In the 19th century, two immigrant preachers cobbled together a series of unrelated passages from the Bible to create what appears to be a consistent narrative: Jesus will return to Earth when certain preconditions have been met. The first of these was the establishment of a state of Israel. The next involves Israel's occupation of the rest of its "biblical lands" (most of the Middle East), and the rebuilding of the Third Temple on the site now occupied by the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa mosques. The legions of the antichrist will then be deployed against Israel, and their war will lead to a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. The Jews will either burn or convert to Christianity, and the Messiah will return to Earth.

What makes the story so appealing to Christian fundamentalists is that before the big battle begins, all "true believers" (ie those who believe what they believe) will be lifted out of their clothes and wafted up to heaven during an event called the Rapture. Not only do the worthy get to sit at the right hand of God, but they will be able to watch, from the best seats, their political and religious opponents being devoured by boils, sores, locusts and frogs, during the seven years of Tribulation which follow.

The true believers are now seeking to bring all this about. This means staging confrontations at the old temple site (in 2000, three US Christians were deported for trying to blow up the mosques there), sponsoring Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, demanding ever more US support for Israel, and seeking to provoke a final battle with the Muslim world/Axis of Evil/United Nations/ European Union/France or whoever the legions of the antichrist turn out to be.

The believers are convinced that they will soon be rewarded for their efforts. The antichrist is apparently walking among us, in the guise of Kofi Annan, Javier Solana, Yasser Arafat or, more plausibly, Silvio Berlusconi. The Wal-Mart corporation is also a candidate (in my view a very good one), because it wants to radio-tag its stock, thereby exposing humankind to the Mark of the Beast...

So here we have a major political constituency - representing much of the current president's core vote - in the most powerful nation on Earth, which is actively seeking to provoke a new world war. Its members see the invasion of Iraq as a warm-up act, as Revelation (9:14-15) maintains that four angels "which are bound in the great river Euphrates" will be released "to slay the third part of men". They batter down the doors of the White House as soon as its support for Israel wavers: when Bush asked Ariel Sharon to pull his tanks out of Jenin in 2002, he received 100,000 angry emails from Christian fundamentalists, and never mentioned the matter again.

The electoral calculation, crazy as it appears, works like this. Governments stand or fall on domestic issues. For 85% of the US electorate, the Middle East is a foreign issue, and therefore of secondary interest when they enter the polling booth. For 15% of the electorate, the Middle East is not just a domestic matter, it's a personal one: if the president fails to start a conflagration there, his core voters don't get to sit at the right hand of God. Bush, in other words, stands to lose fewer votes by encouraging Israeli aggression than he stands to lose by restraining it. He would be mad to listen to these people. He would also be mad not to. "

compared to those crazies.

One thing I would point out to fundamentalists is that Jerusalem has recently become active in promoting gay rights!

They talk about Islamic Extremists who are elsewhere in the world but it's the USA-based Christian Extremists we need to worry about...to hell with worrying about who will sneak into the country to do us harm, they are already HERE and trying to run the country <into the ground>....

occaisionally I see certain conspiracy ideas that ring a bell because I've seen them elsewhere. One has to do with the Russians continuing to build nuclear warheads and missiles above and beyond what anyone would expect, I believe in the Urals? The really crazy part of the theory was that * was in cooperation with this and actually part of a plan to have the U.S. attacked in the future.

Just wanted to make sure he'd seen it -


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6656850/

"By Guy Gugliotta

Updated: 12:51 a.m. ET Dec. 6, 2004

WASHINGTON - Without a separate vote or even a debate, House Majority Leader Tom
DeLay (R-Tex.) has managed to deliver to a delighted NASA enough money to forge
ahead on a plan that would reshape U.S. space policy for decades to come."

He's not going to be around if he's raptured...just more money those "Left Behind" will have to fork over !

In fact, after the Bush administration is out of office in 2008, we're all going to be "Left Behind" to pay for this mess they're leaving behind !

Something ain't right.

Has anybody got any “voice stress analysis software” to run any of the interviews thru? From Clinton Curtis , if Feeney comments , the Yang women even King Georges speech after Kerry conceded ………….
lib=tech=tools=results



does Madsen think these tech tools are helpful ,with his experience in CIA and FBI ?

jump in.

The only problem with the Curtis/Madsen angle is this....

Americans are usually pretty slow animals. People can't handle more than one, two maybe three names or events before they give up. Curtis and Madsen have to boil it down in laymen's terms and then present it (with corraborating evidence included in an addendum).

BTW, a little background on myself...

I'm 32 years old, live in Columbia, MO and volunteered for K/E and MoveOn quite a bit for this election. It was the first time I ever did anything like that, but I felt the urgent need to get rid of the Shrub. I fight this fight for my two girls and to see they have a Constitution and a true democracy when they grow up. Until the *, they will not and it is the most depressing thing to me (more than bills, work, etc.).

So, in short, thank you for having me and I hope to contribute all I can and will interject my opinions when I feel it's neccessary.

Thanks again and let's keep up the good work to get rid of the SOB and to preserve our election system.

You'll make your children proud.
Welcome to DU.

I dont know if these sources are disinfo or what, but so far they have sent me a wealth of information regarding Gutierrez and other interesting "conspiracy" theories which may very well link much of this scandal together, if I'm reading it all right. Anyway, instead of posting up pages and pages of info, I'll leave these two contact addresses here:
dude_love234@hotmail.com
systemsinline@hotmail.com

Or email me directly at ja_investigate@earthlink.net and I'll forward what I have. Doesn't hurt to check it out, does it?

He's got to come up with some substantial proof of election fraud. The way it is, his name is being dismissed just about everywhere. He is damaging his reputation as a muckraking journalist with these teases that give us nothing to move forward with.

The best exposure he has given us so far is the Clinton Curtis affidavit. However, Curtis - while very possibly telling the whole truth - has given us no evidence of fraud during the 2004 election.

We need proof of vote tampering, particularly in Texas and California where Madsen has alleged that the Republicans padded the popular vote in places that people wouldn't think to look for fraud. We need sworn testimonies from people who were responsible for doing it or who have first-hand knowledge, with insider details.

These accounts of money trails prove nothing and lead nowhere. The media and the mainstream Democrats won't touch them, for the same reasons they won't touch money-trail information leading to 9/11 connections. If you can prove a money trail, the next question is: but how do you know how this money was spent?

- Nina

Newspaper article buried in my local paper says Hocking County OH deputy director of elections, Sherole Eaton, has filed a sworn affidavit from which Rep John Conyers has requested an FBI investigation and county prosecution of 'illegal vote tampering' in at least one OH county.

Eaton claims that Triad Governmental Systems made several 'adjustments' to the Hocking County tabulator last Friday, in advance of the state's recount, which is taking place this week.

Go, Conyers, Go !

try writing him again. Also I think I'll do what I can to post something that we can work on in the meantime.

they decided to try messing with domestic elections ? Politics in Italy and Greece were definitely messed with, in order to shore up NATO's southern flank and make sure no communists got elected thru the ballotbox (see "In God's Name" by David Yallop). Australia, an ally, even got the treatment (see "The Falcon and The Snowman") with Geof Whitlam's de-election.

What makes us think they haven't tried to mess with this election ? The NSA has a backdoor to Windows and all the intel and military computers are either Unix or Mac based operating systems. Why dink around with school kids in FL or even computer companies in selected states...unless you wanted to create 'plausible denial' ?

Conveniently, former whistleblower Gary Webb was 'suicided' last week. Along the lines of Danny Casolaro and the guy mentioned in the Curtis case. Whistleblowers now have no protections under the Bush administration, even if they are testifying before Congress I've heard. We need to protect these people who come forward, not send them to the wolves.

Is there a Whistleblowers protection organization anywhere ?