If Bush was told he was going to lose...

Ok, I know there are major problems with electronic voting machines which must be fixed and I think people who keep bringing this up are doing a great service to our country.

But, as for Bush stealing the election through those machines, I'm not so sure. Almost every report of that election says that Rove told Bush that he was going to lose the election based on the exit polls. And that Bush and the white house were noticeably downcast during the day of the election believing this was true. Now if this is the case and they rigged the voting machines to produce a Bush victory--why would he be told he was going to lose?

That has always bothered me.

it. (there's a legal term for it ...but I can't remember it). Maybe plausible deniability?

I think it was actually Karen Hughes who told him he would lose. Rove was too busy with his computers and telephone calls, as the BBC reported.

To protect the KING.....if he does not know he can stay out of jail

I'd like to read it! Thanks

"By the time election night came around, Mr Rove was in the White House, where, unusually for a political adviser, he has an office.

He set up computers in the Old Family Dining Room and started tabulating results. He had set up a massive network of contacts, not just in state capitals, but individual districts and precincts to monitor turnout and support.


Mr Rove may spin the news, but the media still wants to hear him
Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.

He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3987237.stm

Bush's little freakshow appearance where he invited the media in to watch him gloat. At the time, I thought it was wishful thinking, since exit polls were pretty consistently reporting Kerry w/ about 60% of the votes in Ohio. I was so infuriated by Smirky, I switched off the television and went to bed. Boy was I surprised the next morning, for about two seconds! I took me less than 24 hours to start trying to get a look at some of the numbers.

n/t

He's the Antichrist

and it isn't even on right now!

Thank you, BBC! They're tipping their hand that they KNOW went down.
Yes!

Hours before it was clear that US President George W Bush had won the election, Karl Rove told his boss to rest easy.

Working from a bank of computers on the first-floor of the White House, Bush's political guru absorbed the turnout numbers, checked his target projections in swing states and concluded that the bitterly contested race was over.

In first few hours of counting, John Kerry still seemed to be in the game and the political world held its breath.
But Rove told Bush that the crucial state of Ohio was in the bag and that he would be re-elected.

"Karl was calling states long before the networks did," a Bush confidant said. "His grasp of reality was totally uncanny."

Bush spoke to Rove by phone every 10 minutes all night long and later showered praise on the political junkie.

<snip>
http://smh.com.au/news/US-Elections/Bushs-architect-will-be-last-man-out-the-door/2004/11/08/1099781301323.html

Rove had an uncanny grasp of reality? Yeah, sure!

because I put it there is "totally uncanny" too. I must be a financial wizard. LOL

and ruining the game. You know he couldn't have controlled his smirk if Kkkarl had told him he was going to win. But, you might look at Kkkarl's actions. He had a silly smirk on his face and was going around handing out candy.

Perhaps she wasn't in the election fraud loop?

:shrug:

-Laelth

Hughes---and only Hughes--- told Bush he was going to loose based on exit polling.

Rove, on the other hand, started making phone calls to Ohio.

BTW...anyone who knows anything about Texas vote rigging knows you do not rig an election you're going to win. The rigging gets arranged aroung 4:00 PM, when calls are made to trigger existing plans to "find more votes".

See eg: LBJ's 1948 Senate race.

without any coordination? This is what I think happened. Every place they could depress turnout, disenfranchise voters, flip a few votes in a machine, etc., they did. That way you get a skewed result but no traceable, systematic evidence of fraud.

For instance, just assigning the "slower" poll workers to enemy precincts might be enough in a battleground state (the slower the poll workers, the fewer people who actually get to vote for the enemy).

What was done here was much more blatant, but quite possibly not "centrally coordinated"; the same sort of thing you see in disreputable sales organizations where sales people are rewarded for "getting results" and "everybody knows" that there isn't much oversight w. regard to ethics. There may not be a central "plan to screw the customers" but the results are the same as if there were.

--MarkusQ

that leads to this behavior. Look at the witness list for HAVA for cryin out loud.

I do believe that this was a cultural action. I think the people fostering that culture could be prosecuted. I *know* I want them to be.

-Hoot

and no evidence that votes were even counted.

Like he saw the movie about the plane hitting the first tower... Rove makes a mistake only once.

but that was never shown, or did I misunderstand something?

Come on, Jeb was "in on it" in Florida in 2000, and of course Shrub knew. You saw that footage in the plane with his brother (from "Farenheit").

Shrub also knew what it was going to take to win Ohio in 2004, and he saw that Blackwell was "in place." He knew. Kkkarl Rove's "genius" is getting a bit too glossed over to be entirely real.

Shrub knew about the Election 'fix'...just like he "knew" AND approved of the torture in Abu Gharib...the WRITTEN proof of which just surfaced today, courtesy of the ACLU.

Shrub may not be as verbally adroit as most, and he may not be as scholarly as Kerry, but Shrub is ruthlessly shrewd. We should NOT under-estimate what he controls and knows.

I had heard it was Karen Hughes.

But this story seems to cast doubt on your thesis:

This article is sure to raise hackles...

Bush's architect 'will be last man out the door'
November 8, 2004 - 1:28PM
http://tinyurl.com/6d4u5

In first few hours of counting, John Kerry still seemed to be in the game and the political world held its breath.

But Rove told Bush that the crucial state of Ohio was in the bag and that he would be re-elected.

"Karl was calling states long before the networks did," a Bush confidant said. "His grasp of reality was totally uncanny."

Evidently more questions are being raised like by Keith Olbermann

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240


http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/cgi/dr/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=928

remember when another * confidant said that they are creating new realities, isn't it a bit ironic that they used the term "reality"?

Remember when BushCo announced the creation of their Office of Special Plans? How this office would "interpret" the information given by the intelligence agencies? Then BushCo announced it would end this operation, but since the Office was in the business of lying, are we to believe them? A lot like saying "I lie all the time." What do we believe?

But you're right, ever since BushCo grabbed power, this country has been operating on a layer of lies, so much so that I don't know what to believe any more.

Where did all these media reports get this story from in the first place? From Rove and Hughes, of course. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is just another bit of disinformation.

Buth they knew the Dim-son couldn't keep his pie-hole shut if they told him about it. Remember that scene in F 9/11 where he is on the plane & says, oh so arrogantly & cockily, "Oh, we'll win Florida." So they kept him in the dark. He thought he was going to lose (I believe he DID lose), but Rove knew the fix was in. You bet he did.

Dubya's worrying about whether the theft of the election would work proves the theft did not occur. All of the evidence is to the contrary.

too big, it would outweigh the effect of the rigged machines. So it wasn't necessarily in the bag.

and I came to the conclusion it was just another act from Bush the very poor actor, knowing that no matter what the outcome, the election was rigged.

they held out hope that they could pull it out legitimately right up until election night. Then, oops, was not to be. So, OMG, what to do?! Put the plan into action! Spread the rumor that the exit polls were wrong! The MSM doesn't care enough to check the facts or search for the truth. Yes, indeed, the exit polls are wrong! BUSH is WINNING! Damn straight! Bush wins both Florida and Ohio! Bush wins four more years. Those that doubt that are conspiracy theorists and loonies!

Yes, works every time.

the predicted win of Kerry that day (was posted on another thread earlier). Just to ask them what they thought "this article means and is this true?" Just a little reminder that the journalists with * predicted the loss....

by Karen Hughes.

Doubtless everyone who knows Rove knew that some kind of shenanigans were going on, but probably no details. I mean, how could they have known whether they were cheating enough to win the election? They couldn't be too obvious, too different from the polls. It was a close race. And even in states where some rigging went on, they may not have won. Take Wisconsin, where Kerry's win was by 15000 votes. It was a heavy turnout in the cities, and the lead for Kerry should have been more.

They could only hope they cheated just enough to win and be plausible, and that's exactly what happened.

It occurs to me, after reading the articles from BBC and Newsweek and this thread - Bush never knew what was going on. Rove did the scheming and knew full well that Bush was too slow to handle it right. Plus telling him would destroy Bush's plausible deniability.

Actually, if I'm right, Bush never total, real deniability. No clue.

But he still lost. :dunce:

due to EXIT POLLS RESULTS, ROVE TOLD POPPY NOT TO NOT WORRY,THAT THE WH INTERNAL POLLS WERE SHOWING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

I heard POPPY say that on some interview not long after the elections.

Oh fishy slam dunk.

As did Cheney and likely the fool Chimperor!

...you could see the panic in their eyes as they stared into the camera with their wierd Stepford Wive smiles plastered across their faces in that election evening photo op which Rove arranged to announce to the world that the Bush family was a family of WINNERS. Someone needs to run that scene in slow motion focusing on each person's face. I'll bet you would find some interesting twicthes and tics, and some body language at odds with the overt message. The scene creeped me out.

told him when POPPY got off the plane and expressed his concern to Rove...at least, that is what I heard POPPY say in an interview on the television, although, I forget who was doing the interviewing.

...that everyone knew that she was not part of Karl Rove's fix when Votergate erupted as a scandal. She is one smart cookie.

The timing of her exodus from DC was wierd to say the least. If she really thought W had lost, end of story, she would have stayed to console him, she being one of the mother figures he likes to surround himself with. But she made a point of telling him that the exit polls showed that he had lost, she made sure that everyone knew that she had told him that he had lost, and then she left DC in advance of the surprise which she probably suspected Karl Rove was going to pull out of his computer command central.

I wonder what kind of relationship Rove and Hughes have and, if questioned under oath, whether she would lie to protect Rove. I kind of doubt that she would commit perjury to protect Rove, bet she would to protect W.

by stating the loss to * she would be risking her reputation. I mean, you don't tell your boss he has lost unless you are 100% certain, much less let the rest of the world know about this unfortunate conversation. I have, since finding out about this conversation, wondered what it really meant.

Karen and Karl... at loggerheads.

With Karen wanting to go one route and Karl taking the very lowest road possible?

to stand back from a bust

If you believe that, they have fooled you as they have fooled millions.

When will you learn to not believe anything out of the WH?

How many lies will it take for it to sink in?

Auto-alibi:shrug:

you are going to lose. do you want uncle karl to fix it? that is the only way you will win.

Just before I switched off for the night * allowed reporters in the White House to broadcast a little cocky bit of him and "the family" sitting around watching the election results and * said he was "confident" he would win the election. Smirky was truly the most accurate name for him on that occassion I have ever heard. He was positively beaming!

BTW, gotta love that little dog of *'s. Despite the fact that * tried to get him on his lap about 20 times during that little freakshow, the dog STILL won't go anywhere near him! Dogs KNOW!

Corrected typos.

saying hi to another "Sconi" (wisc.)

k

And it was Karen Hughes who told Junior he was going to lose. In a landslide, no less. Which he did.

I think they thought maybe they could "fix" a very close election.  I think they had things in the works - but they were obviously untested - and I don't think it could have been that well organized, for obvious reasons.  The exit polls showed a clear Kerry win.  I think on election day they saw the polls so decisively for Kerry and figured it was way beyond what they could "fix".   I think they were as surprised as anyone that it worked so well.   I also don't know if George Bush was necessarily in on the "fix". I think Rove and maybe a few others (like Chenny?) put some ideas out to try - and they were surprised it went so well.

This may sound crazy - but I don't think so.  I am a computer programmer and this is a major part of life for me.  We test the shit out of stuff - but there is always uncertainty when we put stuff into production that it will actually work the way we want it to.  Many problems blow up when stuff is first tried in a real life production environment.  No matter how much testing you do.  I don't see how they could test a little "nudge" to help Bush win the election.   There really couldn't be a "dress rehearsal".  I don't think they knew if it would actually work.  I also don't think they did ONE thing.  They probably tried voter suppression, changing data, a number of things on a necessarily small scale.  Also - it could not have been well documented or coordinated.   I think it might have been somewhat of a fluke that it went as well for them as it did and Bush won.

after all -- he's not in the know about a lot of things...

puppet...puppet...puppet

She obviously was not in on Rove's plan.

way Rove could have told * he was going to defy exit polls with the "actual" results, and that's if you know that no matter what the other guy gets, you're going to get a little bit more. That takes a centralized scheme of some sort, at least in Ohio and Florida.

I think the Shrub is dumb enough to believe he won when Rove told him he did. he has not let logic, intelligence, or facts stand in his way before, so why start now?

Karen Hughes sitting down and telling chimpie he was going to lose was relayed to us by the MSM, which immediately makes it suspect.

plausible! I think it's not orchestrated at the top. I actually think they operate like cells that work independently with one common goal. Compare it to El Qaeeda

I keep seeing that it was Karen Hughes who "sat W down" to tell him he was going to lose, and that Rove said, no, according to MY information, you are going to win. Not to worry!

just like he knew in 2000-sitting there all smug and calm...remember he said (after Florida was given to Gore) that he KNEW he had won Florida...How did HE know when no one else did? Hmmmmmmm.........