I'm sure this is a long shot, but anyone want to try it?

A post I read a few days ago has stayed with me, though I don't remember where to find it. The writer talked about how, if one of us had our car stolen, we wouldn't be expected to prove the case before it was investigated by law enforcement. The writer pointed out how we are finding we have to do that in the case of election fraud.

So now I'm wondering if it could be useful to approach this as simple criminal activity. Get some local police investigations underway. Get some warrants issued.

I know there are many in law enforcement who are not friendly to our cause, but I have to believe there are others who actually believe in upholding the law and who are (or will be when they have the facts) outraged over what has happened with the elections. I'm thinking mainly of Ohio because that's where my work has focused and I'm most familiar with the clearly illegal activity there. But this could be approached in other states as well.

So...Do any of you know any sheriffs, district attorneys, police detectives, etc. who might be good people to approach about conducting criminal investigations?

Enough evidence to get them started can be found on the Election Incident Reporting System, broken down by county and often by city/town. http:///www.epc.voteprotect.org.

More can be found on forensic statistician Richard Hayes Phillips's website: http://www.northnet.org/minstrel.

Is anybody intrigued enough about this possibility to try it? It seems to me that a few well-placed warrants could really help build momentum.

Could you check and correct the links, they're both off. Thanks.

This would be great, some local prosecutor siezing machines, sweating informants, bringing changes.

:yourock:

how many sympathetic District Attorneys will pursue action, if it's even within their jurisdiction. I doubt many would be willing to commit political suicide. The Attorney General sure isn't going to do it. His office is the one shielding Blackwell from being deposed in Moss v. Bush.

But, who knows...it may take only one. :7

One DA I know is great, is Elliot Spitzer of New York. New Yorkers should contact his office. I bet he'll talk to you. He wants to win future elections, ya know, like Governor of New York?

I don't understand why people in Ohio aren't pursuing it? or in Florida or New Mexico?

Blackwell and others committed obvious malfeasance and violated laws.
Lots of malfeasance documented by officials and poll workers at
www.voteprotect.org maps/ your state
and
www.votersunite.org your state

People should go through the EIRS reports for important counties,
and the VU reports and document the malfeasance, and report it to proper authorities; it would also be useful to Arnebeck and Conyers

I just can't figure out why it hasn't been done yet. You would think that some of the police would be pretty peeved with the way the Bushies have refused to fund their depts. I think the POP came out in support of Kerry.

Sorry about that.

EIRS complaints can be found at https://epc.voteprotect.org

Click on research/maps, then on the state and county you want to view.

Richard Hayes Phillips's work can be read at:
http://www.northnet.org/minstrel

At least, I did one similar to that. Thanks for noting it, emlev!

Wish we had a Spitzer in every state!

I don't have search function. It was more than 48 hours ago, so the MY POSTS function doesn't pick it up either.

Basically, it just said that if somebody is lying on the ground with a gunshot wound and a witness sees a car tearing away quickly, tires screeching, and gets the license number, it's not the witness's job to chase the car, corner the suspects, handcuff them, search their car, test their guns for residue and ballistics tests, and interview all the other witnesses.

It's the job of police, sheriffs, and DAs.

But, when it's suspected election fraud, everybody seems to think that hardworking citizens should note the crime (or flaws), collect and analyze the evidence, do the statistical analysis, magically know what's inside the proprietary software and on the poll signature books, without any powers to secure or examine the evidence. It's supposed to be our job to "prove" all the elements of the crime before a judge or any law enforcement officials or Congress (except the few like Conyers) or the media will deign to look at it.

Although we are doing yeoman's work here, we are getting only stonewalling, slow-walking, and blockading from the officials. If it was a "normal" crime, they would be the chief investigators instead of the chief brick walls.

You had a car and it's gone. You've got a registration that shows you've got a car. If you say it's been stolen and you're lying, you're committing a crime yourself. That's why cops believe you when you say your car is stolen.

So what are you going to go to the police with? Statistics? Go to them with statistics of how many cars were likely to be stolen in your neighborhood as proof YOUR car was stolen. Try that.

Go to them and show them how a car might be hotwired to prove YOUR car was hotwired.

Go to them with a list of names of people who stole OTHER cars and try to get them arrested for stealing YOUR car.

Go to them with statistics, method and suspects, but no proof of an actual stolen car, and see how far you get.

EVIDENCE. If we had any solid evidence, everything you mentioned would EASILY get done.

Try reading the reports on the Election Protection Coalition's Election Incident Reporting System: http://epc.voteprotect.org.

Also, statistics are available on a very specific, precinct-level basis in Ohio with analysis that really is *proof,* not just indication or insinuation of fraud.

If there were witnesses to fraud, there'd be prosecutions. In fact there probably will be with that company that threw away registrations. That's what you have to have, an actual illegal act, who did it, and evidence that the specific act was done. It doesn't matter how many people get up and say there were no machines in my precinct. Until you get a credible person to swear in court that specific indivudals orchestrated an activity to sway the election, and proof those activities actually took place, you don't have evidence of fraud. Until then, it's all speculation. And with recounts in NH, FL & OH, the speculation isn't going to go very far.

I agree with you that people saying there were no machines in their precinct isn't enough to prove fraud.

You wrote that we have to have "an actual illegal act, who did it, and evidence that the specific act was done." The point of my post is that, as was pointed out in the post that stimulated my idea for this thread, if your car was stolen you wouldn't have to know who did it or exactly how it was done in order to get law enforcement to investigate.

I have seen EIRS complaints that could be pursued from a law enforcement perspective if the will to do so were there. Whether or not the people who made those complaints would come forward to pursue them is another story.

You could not just walk into a police station and announce your car was stolen and then just give them statistics and motives and methods. You'd have to prove you actually had a car that could be stolen in the first place. You would have to prove that there was a car and that it was your car. In an election, the votes are the proof of ownership. Exit polls can be used to show a possible trend, but you have to have at least one situation where you can prove there is something wildly wrong with the actual votes that human error doesn't explain.

All we need are a few local-level Prosecutors and Law Enforcement (not FBI)...to help us out!

Great idea! "Grass-roots" it!