WTF? Ted Kennedy won't stand with Conyers

If you can believe this DKos diary, not even Ted Kennedy will stand with Conyers and contest the election. WTF, Ted????? You've got one of the safest Senate seats ever. What's the risk? BushCo already hates you. Have some balls, Ted!!!!! :mad:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/31/104128/72

:puke: :grr:

:wtf:

:hi:

:evilfrown:

What's he so afraid of? :scared:

marginalized on EVERYTHING he tries to attempt going forward. The Republicans are in control of it all right now.

I say go for it, there's nothing to lose. I think Lautenberg will do it.I would be so proud, he's my Senator.

:hi: I am cautiously optimistic, but not holding my breath.

That's the power of the people!

Though (not to generalize), Women tend to be more courageous when it comes to "change." It may take a woman such as Barbara Boxer to begin the "standing up"...for others to follow.

Though I guess none of them are worried about our NOT voting for them in the future...since clearly our votes did NOT count this time. And so will count even less in the future!

And let me guess, they STILL want our taxes, and children for their wars?!!

that this man lost two brothers who were courageous enough to stand up to the beast...and they died for it. He also knows that this is why we lost Dr. King. Do not underestimate the effect this has on ones psyche, not many people have had the horror of being confronted with the beast on such a personal level.

I am not making excuses for him. I agree with all of you that he should make a stand. I'm just saying that I understand his reflex to stop, drop & roll.

Perhaps, instead of attacking him, we can find a way to appeal to his familial strength, courage, and commitment to what is right & just.

care who's line it is.

If these Senators believe on January 6th that the election is stolen, they will contest it NO DOUBT. If they have reasonable doubts or await more information we won't see a contest.

after reading this information, my respect for Kennedy is now a -5.

to Ted when he gets really froggy with them. Lots of Americans who are younger don't remember it or know about it, but they will smear him with it again if he is the Senator. Nothing shames them remember.

What's the point when your ass is worthless anyway?

just said that he doesn't think conyers will get any senator to stand with him "because the VOTES aren't there." he's going from an estimate of how many people were disenfranchised -- not from fraud.

maddening to hear that argument.

Ted is supposed to be a BIG TIME Kerry supporter and he won't even stand up for him!?

I like Ted Kennedy, too, but the behaviour of the Senate Democrats in general when it comes to Presidential elections since the turn of the century seems to be, "Aww, let the other guy have it."

so it's an exercise in futility in some senses.

important one.

Mandate my Ass.

issues we have going forward, may be ignored.

Bush and his minions will never admit he has NO mandate.

this election. We are dead in the water then. Everything and anything that can be done to call attention to the underhanded way this election was held must be done. We are marginalized in the Congress anyway, anything we try and do will be ignored and/or maligned but that's no reason to quit. If we can get the election process fixed ASAP then we can attempt to boot the Republican majority in 2006. We really have no choice but to fight. If we don't, tooth and nail, the Republicans (the very right wing ones) will pass laws and prevent other laws from being put in place to make sure the election system remains broken and skewed in their favor.

consequences for those Senators who may contest the election. I refuse to ridicule anyone for NOT doing so. And I will fully support anyone who does have the information and courage to do so.

if any dem thinks they are going to get cooperation in the senate cause they made some "deal" with the less conservative members of the house not to spring up and contest this election then they are fools are are only going to get played again.

this saddens me, i never hoped for much. just that one senator would stand there with conyers and say "yes, i beleive there was a problem" and after 2 hours of talking they could crown the bastard.

may have "questions" at this point but they may not have "proof" in time for the January 6th deadline. If any member of the Senate Republican or Democrat believes this election was stolen, it is their duty to contest the election. However, if there remains a doubt ... I won't judge anyone in their positions.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...weep, weep, weep... "do not go gently into that good night/rage, rage against the dying of the light!"

Sorry bunny planet for making your blood pressure boil. Don't ignore me.

to the Senate lexicon.

:shrug:

I still intend to write Sen Kennedy anyway. I'm still holding out some hope for Byrd.

But maybe kerry has asked all of these folks, and they said "well, John, you're on your own. If you want to keep your key seats in key committees"...and probably told Kennedy the same thing. But I will remind Kennedy that his brothers would not have put up with this type of balderdash either. :grr:

I held my temper in check, and wrote a polite letter about this to my senior Senator.

Dear Senator Kennedy,

The stories of voter suppression, non-auditable electronic voting machines with no paper trails, voting machine tampering, shortages machines in minority precincts, and the automatic flipping of electronic votes from Kerry to Bush in Ohio and Florida warrant a full and official, non-partisan investigation. Until such time as it can be shown that the 2004 presidential election was fair, the electoral vote should be contested.

Michigan Representative John Conyers is looking for a Senator to join him in contesting the results of the electoral vote on Jan. 6th. You have one of the safest seats in the Senate. Being a lifelong Massachusetts resident, and knowing MA voters, I daresay you'll have your Senate seat as long as you choose to keep running for it. As your constituent, I would like to ask you to join with Rep. Conyers, and stand up for election fairness. The very foundation of our democracy, the right to vote and have that vote fairly counted, is depending on it.

Dear Senator Kennedy:

I'm a former Bay State resident, and voted for you each time you were up for re-election. One of the reasons why I did is because I believed in many of the same issues you did: access to better healthcare, education, and fairer trade agreements. As you learned from your brothers, you knew you have to be steadfast in your oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States from its enemies both foreign and domestic. On January 6th that oath will be tested as Representive Conyers is asking for your help to contest the Presidential election.

For the sake of U.S. citizens both present and future, I ask you to seriously evaluate the legitimacy of electors on January 6th, 2005. Americans are relying on you, and all of our elected representatives, to defend the Constitution. You have an obligation to respect the democratic process by ensuring the validity of our elections.

Verifiable evidence of vote suppression and compelling indications of vote manipulation in Ohio, New Mexico, Florida and other states have been detailed by thousands of witnesses. Given the testimony we have seen thus far and the over 50,000 voter complaints filed since November 2 in Ohio alone, you have legitimate reasons for challenging the presidential electors.

Whether we are experiencing a concerted effort to control the outcome, isolated instances of fraud, lack of training, good faith human error, poor planning for unexpected voter turnout, a lack of funds, flawed software, vulnerable computer networks or some combination of the above; Americans deserve to know for certain that every vote counts and every vote is counted. Our nation cannot serve as a shining example of democracy if it cannot fulfill that responsibility to its own electorate.

In addition to evaluating the electors, there needs to be a full investigation into the matter. Now is the time to address the problem even if the work necessary to regain voter confidence is painful and messy. Expense should not be a consideration in launching a full investigation. I can certainly sympathize with the reticience to initiate such an investigation but I also feel quite strongly that complicit silence will result in a far greater crisis. We as taxpayers and voters have the right to know the truth.

You have voted as beacon of hope for those who need it most. Please ask your colleagues to join you as you help Representative Conyers in his call to arms on January 6th.

Thank you in advance.

Hi benny05! :hi:

Could it be that no senator would dare say what they plan to do on the 6th? I sure hope that's the case.

Thanks for urging Sen. Kennedy to do the right thing.

I'm tired of holding on to a speck of hope that any Dem Senators will take off their gloves and fight for us.

I am coming to terms with the fact that our representatives are basically just a very wealthy group of people who enjoy the limelight and power of their positions. And I've stopped having expectations of them. It helps keep me from feeling constantly disappointed.

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Try watching Countdown with Keith Olbermann. I think you'll find it much more informative.

let alone, before Jan. 6th? :hi: i really think if any of them are going to stand up, they are not going to tell us beforehand. besides, they haven't seen Conyers' report that he's sending to them next week.

:hi:

I can't wait!

They're not going to show their intentions before the 6th.

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Let's wait and see what happens next week. A week is an eternity in politics, as somebody said here yesterday.

And I agree with you. Let's wait and see. I have decided--and this is as close as I can get to a New Year's resolution--that 2005 could, maybe, be a more hopeful year.

:toast:

he is a political liability. Not that I don't like Ted.

has gotten him re-elected how many times?

Ted Kennedy has consistently stood for the little people in the long years of his career.

I know his career well, I'm a Kennedy/Kerry democrat, former consituent of both.

...and how many times has Tom DeLay been re-elected?

It is very difficult for Kennedy to take a stand on moral grounds. This is my opinion, agree with it or not, there it is.

As has been discussed before here at DU, it would be foolish of a Senator to announce intention beforehand. Why would one caller expect to get the 'secret' exposed to only them? I will continue to hope.

This person writes "I just called his office at 9:10 am, as a constituent (Salem, MA), and asked whoever answered the phone if Ted will help Rep. Conyers with the ohio probs.

Perhaps this was this person's opinion We don't even know who was talked to. The janitor for all I know? Who knows...

Ted Kennedy's office is not about to tell you or anyone else for that matter that he will or will not stand up on Jan 6th.
That just is simply not how these things are done. Consitituent or not, there are sometimes, and this is one of them, that some politicians don't give their position away.

I wrote to DiFi summer '03 and asked her to endorse John Kerry. One week before she did, I received a letter saying she would not endorse JK or anyone yet. I had already been told by an inside source that DiFi would be endorsing and she did.

And it continues to this day. Were Kennedy's brothers swallowed whole by this cancer on America, and was that the reason he declined to run for President?

John F. Kennedy was ready to pull out of Vietnam and pull the teeth from the CIA, and he is assassinated. If Robert Kennedy were to become President, he make everything right again and stop the insanity, but he is assassinated. Has the cancer grown so big, that the only way to remove it now is to scrap the government? Are they only trying to limit the damage now, without rocking the boat too much?

Eisenhower warned us to beware when the military industrial complex becomes more powerful than the government itself. That is exactly what we have now.

Nov 22, 1963 was the birth of the modern day repuke party. Kennedy was going to get us out of Vietnam. Trillions of dollars were at stake just as they are now. Remember, these crooks are making a lot of money off of this war. They are going to keep it going as long as they can.

He is a liberal lightening rod and given he comes from MA as does Kerry--strongly supported Kerry-- I think we need someone else.

Perhaps he realizes that while he could support it, he is not the right one to do so.

We need someone else, preferably not from the "evil" northeast or California so no one can accuse them of being some kind of liberal fringe. A southerner or a mid-west/westernerwould be ideal.

has to be Kerry, and every last Senate Democrat must be behind him. Anything less is a monumental waste of time.

n/t

n/t

WE should consider ourselves fortunate if a senator stands up to be counted.
Personally I will take Kennedy if he wants to do it to it. I'll be happy with any one of them.

War and killing is all we'll see for 4 more years. I suggest all young people avoid the military however possible.

We've missed our last chance at democracy. The House and Senate might put on a nice show about the election but war and fake terror will be what the U.S. does now. What else would the current administration do?

Just watch the military show on Jan 20th and say hello to Nazi America. But, so as not to be the eternal pessimist, if you can think of any possible way to get Kennedy and others to reverse our current direction please let everyone know.

And it will be someone without a scandel hanging over their head. It won't be Ted that's for sure.

they ever even thought about, it wouldn't hold a candle to Bush's actions killing 100,000 Iraqis.

If a person is so hampered by an old scandal (probably a set-up) that he can't vote to contest an election that was flawed and fraudulent on countless grounds, then they should not hold office. Not as a Democrat, Independent, Republican, States Rights, I don't care what their party is, they should not be paid by us the people to represent us.

Agreed, that a terrible turn for the worse was taken on November 22, 1963. It's been downhill since then.

no representation...nobody to stand up..except conyers and waters..this is ridiculous....

then what can we expect from the other Senators?

The Congressional Black Caucus will fight, Rep. Bob Filner (D)CA, of San Diego, will stand with them, and that's it.

Some Democrats who rely on liberal votes will make empty gestures. Sen. Diane Feinstein is introducing a bill to abolish the electoral college. That relieves her of any other responsibility, pacifies the thousands of voters who have been deluging her with pleas to support Conyers, and keeps her from having to question the legitimacy of this illigitimate regime.

We have, as the book title said, the best government money can buy. And the corporations who bought it won't permit insubordination. Believe me, when you're a corporation, and you've spent millions of dollars contributing to political parties and candidates, you regard them as employees. And, knowing which side their bread is buttered on, the parties and candidates go along to get along.

If you're interested in anti-corporate politics, check out http://freewebs.com/theconsumersparty As a consumer, your choice is clear: your money or your vote? The corporate parties want both, but when it comes to representation, neither counts in comparison to what they get from corporations.

but I'd like to post what I just posted on dailyKos (if this is bad manners please smite me with a burning response)

These guys are playing cat and mouse with each other--
Kennedy's a no go because he

1) is too close to Kerry to make any move that wouldn't be regarded as internecine

2) is personally a "tainted" liberal who has no standing in the heartland

3) probably would stand up if he was the last man available, but he's not


Remember the mantra--these guys are seriously on message--
and remember--they are not speaking to their constituency--they are using your questions to answer directly back to Rove and the answer is:
1) Nope, no election fraud, I don't know what you are thinking
2) you have no idea the cards we hold in our hand

The plan is in place  but the audience is getting restless

'The plan is in place'. If not, I hear our drum beating stronger, steadier.

You just do it! Any senator no matter what can just DO IT!!

aren't really getting to me anymore. As soon as their is good news, we get bad news to balance it. As soon as their is bad news (after the freaking out) we find good news. Speculation is gonna do more damage than good at this point. So I'm just gonna keep writing to my senators, hoping for the best.

they're all afraid that their image will take a beating if they stand alone and "look the fool" . . . their position AS SENATORS if far more important to them than something as mundane as saving our democracy . . . all just part of the same corrupt government of the wealthy, by the wealthy, and for the wealthy . . . most disgusting lack of leadership ever witnessed in any Congress ever . . .

and it comes out that Kerry won sometime in March...I'm gonna...go balistic.

damn...im speculating again...;( ...no self control at all.

is anointed. Sept 10th, 2001 was suppose to be when the results of the consortium of newspapers' recounting of the '00 election votes were to be made public and looked what happened the next day. :scared: :tinfoilhat:

I'll add that to the list of 9/11 "benefits".

is correct in that they very well may be calculating the net result and political capital they would be risking. However let's keep one thing in mind and that is that there IS sufficient knowledge among these senators to realize that fraud was perpetrated in this country on Nov. 2.

To not stand and fulfill their constitutional obligation to protect the integrity of law (i.e. Ohio blatant violation's) is evidence of complicity. In fact we all knew well before Nov. 2 that there was a very serious assault on democracy when HAVA and evoting was implemented. IMHO this is further evidence of complicity.

We are being played by the time tested, tried and true, Machiavellian stategy of divide and conquer. The repugs and dems are playing good cop, bad cop.

The arrogance of the senate is that they really don't care about the American populace so much as they cater to power. Today power lies in corporate boardrooms and is exercised through "lobbyists" who control "our" representatives. I truly believe we are fighting a war which should be defined by us as a class war. We should fight on every front we can have an effect. Not to say that writing congress, and LTTE should cease but a true "yell it in the town square" battle needs to be waged. By that I mean becoming a bullhorn for truth by creating and disseminating our own media. Fliers on windshields, e-casts of fact, sit-in's, civil disobediance, and a diebold tea party

Wow.... must be getting nervous over there. See the infection spread far and wide. Let yourself down.... blah blah blah.

They want to link this any negative way they can!

knows no specific party , but leans heavily to the repugs. It's time to start anew with all new candidates that will not join the corprafascists. As it is now, ALL are guilty, the Dems included. When the rot stinks enough , some slight changes will occur, but this is it I think, we are watching the end of an era of pseudo democracy , and entering a corporafascist period with the complete asistance of the DNC DLC.The reluctance of our representatives in the Senate to stand up shows this glaringly.It's all about their power, and disenfranchaising the people of theirs. Power knows no party.

wrong doing" which is cr@p. There's all kinds of evidence of wrongdoing.

But, as long as anyone can cling to pretended ignorance, there is no argument to make.

think he/she would be stating the information now.... At All.

....is in the Joint Session and I think they would want everyone focused on what happens there. Pure speculation on my part, but I think you are correct.

Peace.

That's what we should tell them. We voted 'em in and we can vote 'em out. Their job is to represent the people - US - and we expect it to be done.

Uh, pardon me, but that's what this whole thing is about--that we CAN'T vote anybody in or out unless we get free and fair elections. Maybe we think we voted people in or out, and maybe we did and maybe we didn't--only the corporations know for sure.

I wouldn't have included him on a "top ten most likely" to step forward list. The thing is, I really believe that a senator will step forward, probably more than one. And the ones that do will have everything to gain in the end.

he is too old to care about scandals. and has a big enough mouth to get his way in the senate no matter what. he is our hope.

How could you write a book like that and not stand up for democracy?

Although the right wing media would love to know ahead of time, I just don't think anyone's going to announce it. I believe at least one senator will stand up, and I also believe they'd be foolish to tell anyone ahead of time.

Geeeze man!!

And I thought it was bad when Senator Kerry was being savaged.

Does anyone think that it just might be possible that these two honorable men (And many more) simply are not convinced of anything more that irregularities? (Which are present in every election).

These witch hunts have GOT to stop before we eat ALL of our own!!! :(

Reasoning such as this really passes me off. This is along the lines of , all elections have something wrong with them so why bother! This , if true , could push me over the edge. "Irregularities" my ass! This has GOT to stop or we don't have a democracy. I guess a"little bit of fraud" , or a "few voted that aren't counted" doesn't have to matter? After all ,it isn't going to change the result of the election, so why fuss? If no one stands up to even protest the irregularities, I may rethink my staying to fight. It is clearly too big a job if your own party is opposing you. I pray this isn't true. Posters who put the past reputations of public officials above the vote itself make the problem doublefold. ALL Senators who don't care about the vote need to be gone.

so all we can do is keep writing and faxing:

Snail mail is too slow and gets irradiated. Email is overlooked.

Here are fax numbers:

Biden:
NH 302-573-6351
DC 202-224-0139

Bingamen:
DC 202-224-2852

Boxer:
San Bernadino 909-888-8613
DC 202-228-1338

Byrd:
Charleston 304-343-7144
DC 202-228-0002

Clinton:
DC (202) 228-0282
NYC (212) 688-7444
Albany (518) 431-0128

Conrad:
DC (202) 224-7776
Fargo (701) 232-6449

Corzine:
DC (202) 228-2197
Newark (973) 645-0502

Dodd:
DC (202) 228-1683

Dorgan
Bismarck 701-250-4484
DC 202-224-1193

Durbin
DC (202) 228-0400
Chicago (312) 353-0150

Harkin
DC (202) 224-9369
Des Moines (515) 284-4937

Jeffords
DC 202-228-0776

Kennedy
DC 202/224-2417
Boston 617/565-3170

Kerry
DC (202) 224-8525
Boston (617) 248-3870

Lautenberg
DC(202) 228-4054
Newark (973) 639-8723

Leahy

Levin
DC (202) 224-1388

Lieberman
CT (860) 549-8478
DC (202) 224-9750

Mikulski
DC 202-224-8858

Nelson
DC 202-228-2182

Jack Reed
DC (202) 224-4680
Cranston (401) 464-6837

Harry Reid
DC 202-224-7327
NV 702-388-5030

Rockefeller
Charleston 304-347-5371

Sarbanes
Baltimore (410) 962-4156
DC (202) 224-1651

Stabenow
DC 202-228-0325

Wyden
DC 202-228-2717

Obama
312-427-6401

For bulk faxing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x7570

My brother does, so I'll talk him into this.

E-mail tends to get thrown out with the spam.

This message from Kennedy is double bad news, because it strongly suggests Kerry isn't planning to stand up and even encouraging others NOT to do so.

As for Kerry himself "recusing" himself from being the one to make the stand, that does make some sense. Keep the emphasis on the disenfrachisement and fraud, not the outcome of the Presidential race. Obviously, the Republicans will win that vote in Congress one way or another.

Most probably, some Senator will go with the investigation if we keep the pressure on, including demonstrations. :yourock:

So he can't be the one to stand with Conyers. He announced the trip a while back.

That will get the attention of the press and his neighbors too!

I have been there. The houses are on a narrow little road right on the beach. It's warm right now in Ma -- and the beach "water line" is public property. Signs "floating" in the bay would make a statement for sure. Signs left at the driveway would make a statement as well. Imagine standing in the "water line" holding your signs?

safe to say alot of "our" senators have a fair amount to hide themselves

(Patriot II). What's happened to him?

It would look better if he personaly didn't, take the heat off him and the less we hear that Kerry is behind the voter-fraud the easier it becomes -- Listening to FOX-limbaugh-Hannity makes me want to puke anyway!

anyone is behind election fraud beside the black congress. i have not heard on senator or one Dem mention it. white men dont say fraud!

FRAUD was found. He said it at a Medford OR Town Hall meeting and 200 people heard him say it on Nov 3. If you are from Oregon help him keep his promise.

JoeVoter
www.aefwg.com

You wrote:

i must say i dont think anyone is behind election fraud beside the black congress.

Let's be perfectly clear. What I think you meant was:

i must say i dont think anyone is behind the campaign to contest election fraud beside the black congress.

its a ny thing we talk very fast. and i guess my brain just forgot a few words. lol, wow what i said really was not what i meant to say. thank you for clearing that up!

I'm in a haze now.. Did Salazar win Colorado also?
If so then there are two more minority members.
Here is hoping they don't act White or yeller as we say in Texas...
Time for Dem senators to grow some spine!

this is going to prove Nader right.

Democrats and Republicans are the same. Corrupt, selfish, enemies of America.

2004 was the last time a great deal of progressives voted for a Democrat.

ABB = Anybody But Bush

I don't believe that statement for one second. Just go back and look at Ted's speeches against the shrub in 2004. He pulled no punches. He despises Bushco and would love nothing more than to go toe-to-toe with Cheney in throwing out the Ohio electors.